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Post by tothehouse on May 7, 2017 12:30:24 GMT -6
a player because their parent(s) wouldn't stop talking crap either in public or on social media?
Could you justify removing the player from the team if the comments made were egregious?
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Post by BrendanQB on May 7, 2017 13:00:43 GMT -6
Not just because of a parent. If the kid was the same way, then yes. But how's the kid? That's the most important piece of info here
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Post by blb on May 7, 2017 13:32:41 GMT -6
Don't hold the young man accountable for what his parents say or do.
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Post by tothehouse on May 7, 2017 14:09:11 GMT -6
This is hypothetical...by the way. This isn't currently happening.
What if you had some ground rules in place regarding parents poisoning the pool off the field...about you, the program, etc.?
Obviously there would need to be a difficult conversation with them. But again...how would the kid's role play here?
Could you see a conversation going..."I'm not going to be putting Johnny anywhere near a position of importance because you, mom and dad, don't think anything we're doing inside the program is done properly".
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Post by dytmook on May 7, 2017 14:13:47 GMT -6
Frustrating but I don't think you can take it out on the kid. The parents won't be happy either way, might as well not give them ammo.
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Post by carookie on May 7, 2017 14:45:04 GMT -6
Heres the thing, in what way would this stop the parent from bad mouthing the program?
Unless the kid's presence on the team was giving him access to information, that he was then feeding to his parent to fuel his attack; or being a parent of a player granted him special access to the program and players, then getting rid of the kid would have no impact on silencing the parent. That is unless you threaten the parent with removal of his kid unless he pipes down, in which case you are REALLY walking a dangerous line.
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Post by fantom on May 7, 2017 16:19:48 GMT -6
Heres the thing, in what way would this stop the parent from bad mouthing the program? Unless the kid's presence on the team was giving him access to information, that he was then feeding to his parent to fuel his attack; or being a parent of a player granted him special access to the program and players, then getting rid of the kid would have no impact on silencing the parent. That is unless you threaten the parent with removal of his kid unless he pipes down, in which case you are REALLY walking a dangerous line. Not to mention that, rather than making the situatiion better, it'll get worse. |
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Post by adawg2302 on May 7, 2017 16:39:14 GMT -6
For what its worth, one of our assistant coaches who is a very successful basketball coach in the area (AAU/travel style teams), has cut / not taken the best player before because of their parent(s) being a pain. A little different than high school in that since its 100% his program (not tied to a school), but an example that it has been done before.
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Post by spos21ram on May 7, 2017 17:01:39 GMT -6
For what its worth, one of our assistant coaches who is a very successful basketball coach in the area (AAU/travel style teams), has cut / not taken the best player before because of their parent(s) being a pain. A little different than high school in that since its 100% his program (not tied to a school), but an example that it has been done before. You cant even compare the two. For a school team you would never get away with it. |
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Post by tothehouse on May 7, 2017 17:06:36 GMT -6
Just for conversation...how does it make it worse? I get that none of this would be pretty. But the parents might learn they need to stand down a bit if it means their kid can stay on the team.
Looky here...I'm not doing this...I'm just trying to see if it's something people could consider and defend.
Yep...parents would still be a problem because they'd create a support group with other parents of kids that are getting "screwed".
All of this could be helped out with discussions with all parents about expectations, etc. Expectations of players, parents, and coaches.
Agree totally that the kid shouldn't be "punished" especially in the cases where the kid knows his parents are douche noggles.
And...I really didn't think of this because of the Levar Ball's of the world...but look how that is turning out for basketball coaches at Chino Hills.
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Post by fantom on May 7, 2017 17:21:34 GMT -6
Just for conversation...how does it make it worse? I get that none of this would be pretty. But the parents might learn they need to stand down a bit if it means their kid can stay on the team. Looky here...I'm not doing this...I'm just trying to see if it's something people could consider and defend. Yep...parents would still be a problem because they'd create a support group with other parents of kids that are getting "screwed". All of this could be helped out with discussions with all parents about expectations, etc. Expectations of players, parents, and coaches. Agree totally that the kid shouldn't be "punished" especially in the cases where the kid knows his parents are douche noggles. And...I really didn't think of this because of the Levar Ball's of the world...but look how that is turning out for basketball coaches at Chino Hills. Assuming that the kid isn't guilty of anything, if you dismiss him you just gave your enemies more ammo. They'll also be joined by people who may not agree with the parent but think that you're a prick because you punished the kid because of the parents/ |
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Post by spos21ram on May 7, 2017 19:01:16 GMT -6
What if the kids parents are divorced, lives with his mother, but it's the father bad mouthing the team, trying to gain support from other parents, etc.? If the kid is totally innocent, how could you ever punish the kid for this?
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scottc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by scottc on May 7, 2017 19:07:41 GMT -6
I am dealing with this rt now. I have a kid who was a sr (great kid who was ultimate team player)Was starting qb. We made a change mid season. He still started at rb. Played multiple pos on def but they didn't like that. Now it's my fault he didn't get a scholly. When the eligibility program kicked him out of system when his physical expired we were trying to erase his record of playing there (conspiracy theory crap). They actually went last week & got him a physical simply so he would be put back on roster in software w/ 2 weeks To go on school.
Thing is as hard as it is I've not responded. I don't Facebook & have them blocked on my phone. What I do is indirectly confront them with my message to the team. Constantly talk about how we make decisions that we feel are best for the team w info we have at the moment etc. thing is there are going to be detractors today. Nature of beast.
Be truthful/honest with ur kids and they will know who to believe at the end of the day. Walk the walk let them talk the talk.
my dad use to say that if u wrestle with a pig at the end of the day the pig is still a pig but u both get muddy.
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Post by CS on May 7, 2017 19:14:08 GMT -6
If the parents are that bad 9 times out of 10 the kid is probably a prick as well.
Seriously, how many times have you had a great kid and his parents are complete loonies??
I'm actually dealing with something similar right now. Not the HC and its with softball but its the same kind of situation.
Center fielders brother just graduated from college and their grandpa gave him his hitting instructor business. Several of our girls have gone to him...long story short they hit like sh!t and most have been replaced.
He dogs the program and the HC all the time on social media and his sister has complained in another coaches classroom about him.
My HC is insanely successful by the way and has been coaching softball for 20 yrs.
Point is any pain in the a$$ I have ever had to coach gets it honest. If the parents are crazy the kid will be IMO
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Post by tothehouse on May 7, 2017 20:09:57 GMT -6
Again...don't be killing me on this response...
What if that was in your team rules at the start of the season? You'll communicate to parents. They can communicate with you. But if they're {censored} on your program, coaches, other kids, etc. you can call a meeting and see where it goes. Doing this to one kid...could stop the others from doing it. And maybe...it's not dismissal...it's a suspension. "Johnny's out this week because his parents broke the 'NO Drama' policy". I get that if Johnny is a good player then the team gets punished because of Johnny's parents.
I'm just bringing this up because so many people complain that parents are whack jobs...and a lot of times...most times...the coach has to sit there and take the abuse. Some of the {censored} out there is borderline defamation.
And scottc...maybe the answer is punch the bully in the mouth. Not literally (though you want to). Confront the jagwagon. Get the AD or whoever there with you and go to town on this guy.
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Post by fantom on May 7, 2017 20:23:35 GMT -6
Again...don't be killing me on this response... What if that was in your team rules at the start of the season? You'll communicate to parents. They can communicate with you. But if they're {censored} on your program, coaches, other kids, etc. you can call a meeting and see where it goes. Doing this to one kid...could stop the others from doing it. And maybe...it's not dismissal...it's a suspension. "Johnny's out this week because his parents broke the 'NO Drama' policy". I get that if Johnny is a good player then the team gets punished because of Johnny's parents. I'm just bringing this up because so many people complain that parents are whack jobs...and a lot of times...most times...the coach has to sit there and take the abuse. Some of the {censored} out there is borderline defamation. And scottc...maybe the answer is punch the bully in the mouth. Not literally (though you want to). Confront the jagwagon. Get the AD or whoever there with you and go to town on this guy. If the idea is to deter other parents from bad-mouthing your program, forget it. True whackos can't be deterred. |
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Post by tothehouse on May 7, 2017 20:50:31 GMT -6
In the end fantom...you're right. And the crazy part...they stay whacko after their kid leaves. Some people are just so {censored} lame their whole life.
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Post by adawg2302 on May 7, 2017 21:29:55 GMT -6
For what its worth, one of our assistant coaches who is a very successful basketball coach in the area (AAU/travel style teams), has cut / not taken the best player before because of their parent(s) being a pain. A little different than high school in that since its 100% his program (not tied to a school), but an example that it has been done before. You cant even compare the two. For a school team you would never get away with it. I agree. Never said you could, or would entertain it, which is why I stated its different than a school program. Just stating that this exact thing has happened before (just not in a school setting as I mentioned). |
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Post by adawg2302 on May 7, 2017 21:35:04 GMT -6
This whole thread reminds of the very first line of "The Letter to the Parents" in St. Louis Cardinal manager Mike Matheny's book: "The Matheny Manifesto."
"I always said the only team I would coach would be a team of orphans..."
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Post by groundchuck on May 8, 2017 4:45:36 GMT -6
I would never remove a player because of their parents. The player isn't guilty for the sins of their parents.
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Post by utchuckd on May 8, 2017 6:33:13 GMT -6
I wouldn't kick a kid off the team solely for the actions of his parents, just like I wouldn't play a kid because he had great parents who raised a bunch of money and/or participated in everything the booster club did.
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Post by newt21 on May 8, 2017 6:40:21 GMT -6
I wouldn't kick a kid off the team solely for the actions of his parents, just like I wouldn't play a kid because he had great parents who raised a bunch of money and/or participated in everything the booster club did. I agree with this, however we've had parents before that were asked to leave the game and ended up being banned from games because of THEIR actions. Never would I hold it against the kid though, he didn't choose his parents after all. |
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CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212 
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Post by CoachSP on May 8, 2017 7:14:19 GMT -6
There is a baseball coach in our area that gives out a "parents contract" at his preseason parent meeting. There is some verbiage in the contract relating to this topic.
"We won't burn the barn to kill a rat." In other words, he holds the kids accountable if the parents become too much of a problem. I'm not sure if it is a scare tactic or if he has really cashed in on it, though.
He is also a title contender every year; I imagine that helps.
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Post by spos21ram on May 8, 2017 7:20:13 GMT -6
There is a baseball coach in our area that gives out a "parents contract" at his preseason parent meeting. There is some verbiage in the contract relating to this topic. "We won't burn the barn to kill a rat." In other words, he holds the kids accountable if the parents become too much of a problem. I'm not sure if it is a scare tactic or if he has really cashed in on it, though. He is also a title contender every year; I imagine that helps. Being a baseball coach myself, you have a little more leeway to do such a thing because most baseball teams have to make cuts. I still wouldn't cut a kid if he is 100% innocent and it's all his parents, but the beauty of baseball is that you can cut the kid if he has a bad attitude/possible cancer to the team before it becomes a problem. |
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Post by coachcb on May 8, 2017 9:14:08 GMT -6
a player because their parent(s) wouldn't stop talking crap either in public or on social media? Could you justify removing the player from the team if the comments made were egregious? When coaching youth football, I have had several set of parents that were nasty and vocal about the coaching staff. Their kids were playing a lot and no one was berating or mistreating them. They were upset over scheme, their kids' position, blah, blah, blah. I pulled them aside early on and told them that they were more than welcome to pull their kids from the team if they felt that we were doing a poor job. I also told them that their children's playing time would suffer if they started mimicking their bad behavior at practice. All but two fell in line. One dad pulled his kid after the discussion and tried to get him on a different team. The league shut him down the kid didn't play that year. Another dad kept running his mouth at home, his kid turned into a nightmare and I benched him. The kid went from being a starter to getting the bare minimum playing time. Daddy ended up getting banned from games after he started screaming at me from the sidelines. His kid quit after he rode the bench for a week. At the high school level, we've had some pretty chitty parents but the situation generally sorts itself out. Their kid is a PITA in practice, doesn't play and ends up quitting. I have only run into a few kids who weren't influenced by their parents' bad attitudes and kept working hard for us. |
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Post by coachthomason on May 8, 2017 12:05:11 GMT -6
Like most have said, you can't hold a kid accountable for their parents actions. Just isn't fair in my opinion. I've dealt with lots of horrible parent groups. Receiving anonymous letters to both the school I work at and my home address trying to character assassinate my staff and I. But I will never take that out on the kid.
It's not the kid's fault that he has parents like that. It's his parents fault for being who they are. I wouldn't want people judging me based on MY parents' actions, thats for sure.
It may be a PITA but you're working with young men to make them better at football, but better young men too.
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famar
Sophomore Member
Looking to learn as much as I can from this site and all of the coaches here.
Posts: 208
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Post by famar on May 8, 2017 18:58:34 GMT -6
Nobody likes being badmouthed publicly or privately, but IMHO, nothing good can possibly come from dismissing a kid from your team because his parents are a-holes. I don't know what level you coach at, but assuming it's high school or middle school, if you do do that, and then the parent runs to the Principal/AD/Superintendent, and all you have to defend your actions are that the kid's parents were badmouthing you, you're going to come off as petty and vindictive to your superiors.
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Post by fkaboneyard on May 9, 2017 11:43:37 GMT -6
At my previous school (small private school) I was coaching baseball and we had a really nice kid, decent baseball player, whose dad was a prick of the highest order. He was the typical know-it-all dad that was always badmouthing the coaches and ranting at the games. Both the mom and the boy were embarrassed by dad's behavior. At one particular tournament we were in the semi-finals and the game was going sideways. Though I had planned to play the kid I needed to stop the bleeding so he sat and we ended up winning the game. At our team meeting afterward I told the kid, "Hey, I wanted to get you in today but it didn't work out. You will play tomorrow" and the kid seemed fine. Meanwhile, the dad was losing his mind in the stands with all the other parents. Later that evening his wife sent a nasty email to the entire team, coaching staff, and the AD saying we play favorites, we're inept, etc. and that she was considering pulling her son from the team. I knew that her husband was behind it all. I hit "reply to all" and told her that she and her husband were acting like fools and that if they wanted to hook their kid that was their decision. But whatever they decided the parents were no longer welcome at practices or games because I would not allow their foolish behavior to ruin baseball for the other players & their families. The dad showed up at the next practice and challenged me to a fight.
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Post by s73 on May 10, 2017 18:58:06 GMT -6
I will fully admit (and I knowingly admit I'm not sure it was the right thing to do but...it worked) that twice in my career I had 2 dads about 20 years apart who were so obnoxious that I threatened to sit their kid if they didn't cool it.
Once, I had a dad show up on my sideline at a school that didn't have a fence section off the visitors sideline. We were losing and next thing I know the dad is on my sideline b!itching and complaining. I told him to leave and he said "what are you gonna do tough guy, give me a detention?"
I said, "no I'll I just sit your kid until you leave".
He left and never bothered me again.
The other kid was probably a bit more controversial. I had a dad riding my @ss forever! We had a weak class of seniors and I started several juniors. The kicker? His kid was a junior who benefitted from the weaker class and got to play much more than he ordinarily would have.
Anyway, guy was obnoxious. Stood behind me in the stands and just yelled the whole season. Well, after 7 weeks I called the kid in the Monday after a tough loss and told the kid "you're a good dude & I don't want to do this but....if I hear 1 more word out of your dad I'm gonna sit you until he gives it a rest".
Kid went home & told dad & dad gave me this long delusional email that was a rant about all kinds of "technical" mistakes we were making etc.
He did not count on me calling him. He sounded like he literally sh!t his pants when i called him. I simply told him that he was out of line, I talked a couple circles around him about X's & O's (he complained about our pass cover, I asked him what cover we run & of course he couldn't answer) etc.
Well, phone call ended as positive as it could b/c he was a coward and cowards cave when they aren't yelling at the back of your head and I never heard another word from him the rest of the kids junior or senior year.
Again, not sure if it was right, but the guy was so obnoxious it literally became a distraction & I felt it needed to stop. So I called him out w/ his kid's playing time as well as calling him directly and it worked.
JME.
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