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Post by aceback76 on Feb 9, 2017 14:53:40 GMT -6
I broke down 10 full game films per WEEK of area HS teams. The following jumps out at you:
Here are the REASONS the losers lost (& it had NOTHING to do with X & O)!!!
1. No MORALE (not playing with emotion).
2. Poor Tackling (body not under control when going into the tackle).
3. Pass defenders losing sight of the ball in zone, and their man in man.
4. O & D lines losing VERTICAL LEVERAGE.
5. Not playing to the whistle (not FINISHING the play). SUGGESTION: Use the "6 Second Interval" in practice.
6. Not putting quicker players on the edge (OLB, DE, etc.). "LOSE CONTAIN = LOSE THE GAME"!!!
7. The old bugaboo of turnovers & penalties).
A team guilty of the above will NOT win many games!!!
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 9, 2017 15:37:06 GMT -6
How does one measure morale on film?
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Post by bigmoot on Feb 9, 2017 16:04:21 GMT -6
How does one measure morale on film? It's subjective, but there are times you can tell a team is just going through the motions
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Post by hsrose on Feb 9, 2017 16:05:30 GMT -6
Morale - Defense, number of players within x yards of the ball at the time the whistle blows. Pursuit is a good measure of morale. Offense - number of players still blocking/doing something when the whistle blows. Not trying to take heads off or doing stupid stuff, but players still trying to get their job done.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 9, 2017 16:21:05 GMT -6
In that case we can't separately judge morale and playing to the whistle.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 9, 2017 19:48:59 GMT -6
Does losing vertical leverage mean getting your ass kicked on the lines? If so, I think I found the number one contributor.
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Post by dytmook on Feb 9, 2017 20:27:23 GMT -6
The oline dline thing could be more of a personnel thing than simply bad coaching
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on Feb 10, 2017 2:43:19 GMT -6
Turnovers and penalties usually rule the out come in terms of most games I've seen, been a part of...
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 10, 2017 5:10:59 GMT -6
That's a good list.
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 9:59:30 GMT -6
Does losing vertical leverage mean getting your ass kicked on the lines? If so, I think I found the number one contributor. Vertical leverage means getting your pads lower than his pads!
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 10:01:48 GMT -6
It's EASY to see on film which team has "morale" by who plays with the most intensity. A team with bad morale will just go thru the motions. A highly motivated team goes all out (& plays with "abandon").
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 10:20:17 GMT -6
We "sell" this to our players:
PLAYING WITH MORALE AND INTENSITY:
There is no magic formula for developing morale, but there is a means of getting consistent effort from your team and intensity is what it is all about. How close do your players come to making their best effort every time the ball is snapped? That is what it is all about, and if your team can do that then they are going to play very well. My theory of judging how well a team is coached is not how many games they won that they shouldn’t have won (they upset somebody), it’s games they lost when they were a superior team, they didn’t play well that day. And why didn’t they play well --- nobody got geared up about it. Teach your players to think of the game totally as a chance to find out about themselves --- what kind of a man am I and how well can I play when it is tough to play? You begin by explaining to them that this is a most uncomfortable game to play. There is no way you can play football and feel good. The first two or three plays everybody feels good. But now I am the Nose Tackle and I have got to meet someone me and now it’s a sweep and I’ve got to run 20 yards and there is a big collision and I’ve got to line up again and meet somebody and run 20 yards and then there is another collision. I do this three or four times and I don’t feel good. Now, do I quit at this point and wait to get my breath or do I continue to go as hard as I can to try as hard as I can try? THAT’S WHERE THE GAME IS WON OR LOST! What happens to most teams is they play the first two or three plays as well as they can, then they get to a point, I used to call this the “QUITTING DOWN”, where two or three guys tell themselves, “If I coast on this play then I’ll be able to go real hard on the next one”. They have gotten kind of tired so they coast for a while. So they go hard again but now a few others decide it is time for them to coast and the result of this is that you never get eleven guys going all out.
So to get back to the basic point, if you can convince your people that the reason for playing is for them to find out about themselves and for them to find out how close they can come to playing as well as they can on every snap. Then you can eliminate, I think, that “up and down”. So now I have three practices and I get the men together after practice and I ask them, “how many of you think you went as hard as you could every time” and if anybody puts his hand up he is lying. “How many of you did it 90% of the time”, I don’t think you get any hands if you have an honest relationship. “80% of the time”, you will get some hands and you explain to them again, that’s not very good if you expect to be a good football team, and we’ve got to make the effort every time the ball is snapped and if you don’t think you can, walk off the field --- it takes more courage than standing out there bluffing. I’m never going to know if you make the big effort, and your teammates are not going to know if you make the big effort, but you are going to know and the whole game is a test of yourself. Now, if your players understand this, and I think if you explain it to them they will, some days they are going to play a guy in a red shirt who is a super athlete, some other day it will be a guy in a green shirt who cannot play a lick but that does not effect your guy’s performance at all because his whole purpose is to find out today how close, “I can come to making my maximum effort every time they snap the ball”. After the game in the locker room, “Okay how many of you went the best you could everytime”, I don’t think you will ever see any hands. How many of you went 95%”, maybe one. “90%”, maybe 4. But this is something that if they understand what I’m talking about, as the season goes along more and more of them will be able to get their hand up and if you can ever get them all giving their best effort then it is going to be awfully hard to beat you. And the major thing that happens is this, if you players begin to think this is just an opportunity to for me to find out about myself, “today, how close can I come to doing the best I possibly can”, then it doesn’t matter whether you are supposed to win by four touchdowns, because the objective has nothing to do with that, their objective is to find out about themselves. Or, they are supposed to lose by three, that has nothing to do with it. It is simply a question of “today, am I able to beat MYSELF”. I’m the toughest opponent that anybody ever had, there is no question about that. If they do honestly believe that, that is the purpose of the game, then I believe they will play consistently with MAXIMUIM INTENSITY!!! Get everyone on the field doing that – it will be very hard for anyone to defeat you!
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Feb 10, 2017 10:40:30 GMT -6
In that case we can't separately judge morale and playing to the whistle. It's also body language, walking to and from the huddle, if somehow he saw the halftime warmup, that can tell u a lot. Walking around, just coming out and sitting on the bench etc
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 10, 2017 10:49:39 GMT -6
This is becoming a very fuzzy measure.
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Post by blb on Feb 10, 2017 11:04:53 GMT -6
The fastest, surest way to lose a game is a breakdown in some facet of the Kicking Game.
Nothing specific on that list referencing this area.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 10, 2017 11:23:35 GMT -6
It's EASY to see on film which team has "morale" by who plays with the most intensity. A team with bad morale will just go thru the motions. A highly motivated team goes all out (& plays with "abandon"). I am not sure this is always the case. I think there are teams that play with intensity for a variety of purposes. I like the concept of morale as the major motivation. I definitely thing intensity through inspiration is a more positive and lasting approach. However, there are other means of motivating intensity than "morale." Two examples: As a Hoosier basketball fan I watched Bob Knight relentlessly coach his players to successfully compete with intensity. His success and motivation did not always lend itself to high morale. While many players respected his tutelage after the fact, many if not most hated it during the experience. That's not good morale. They played with intensity because they were part of a system that demanded it and delegated consequences when it was absent. In the book Coach: A Season with Lombardi it is was often discussed that Lombardi would threaten a player being cut if he didn't produce. Several players talked about how they were happier under Otto Graham, but they didn't play as well (probably because of the lack of intensity that drives execution.) I think intensity and playing as close to one's full effort-potential is very important. I do not know that it is always directly linked to morale. I may be splitting hairs, but to me morale and intensity are not the same thing.
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Post by fantom on Feb 10, 2017 11:35:02 GMT -6
I broke down 10 full game films per WEEK of area HS teams. The following jumps out at you: Here are the REASONS the losers lost (& it had NOTHING to do with X & O)!!! 1. No MORALE (not playing with emotion). 2. Poor Tackling (body not under control when going into the tackle). 3. Pass defenders losing sight of the ball in zone, and their man in man. 4. O & D lines losing VERTICAL LEVERAGE. 5. Not playing to the whistle (not FINISHING the play). SUGGESTION: Use the "6 Second Interval" in practice. 6. Not putting quicker players on the edge (OLB, DE, etc.). "LOSE CONTAIN = LOSE THE GAME"!!! 7. The old bugaboo of turnovers & penalties). A team guilty of the above will NOT win many games!!! It's a good list. I agree with blb and would add #8. Breakdowns in the kicking game. A few observations from my own experience: 1. Morale: I think that you can get a sense of a team's morale from film. It's easier in person, though, which is the main reason why we like to scout a team live when we can. 2. Concerning penalties: It's not just the number of penalties, it's the quality. INOPPORTUNE penalties are the ones that kill you. I can't think of a better example than Atlanta's holding penalty in the SB. Aggressive defenses will have PI and roughing penalties. I'm not saying that penalties are good or advocating dirty play but if your guys are flying around there will be plays where a guy will get there a tick early or late. You juts hope that it doesn't happen on 4th and 10 or in the red zone. Those are the ones that kill you. The false starts on 4th and 1 are an argument for gun control.
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Post by wiscohscoach on Feb 10, 2017 11:37:19 GMT -6
Factors in losing:
1) Did not score more points than the opponent
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Post by blb on Feb 10, 2017 12:02:28 GMT -6
Quite often it's not how many penalties-yards you get, but WHEN you get them.
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Post by fballcoachg on Feb 10, 2017 12:24:11 GMT -6
Some very good points but I'd question if a few are really not talent related
assuming coaches aren't sabotaging themselves 6 is talent related, highly doubt they are purposely playing slow guys if they have a faster physical disciplined option
I think you can see some measures of morale etc but if you are a team getting stomped due to talent is that really the reason you lost bc morale started to drop in the second half or when you are 0-5 and go 3 and out while they pound you for a 90 yard touchdown drive? While we can all serve as morale builders I've seen teams in that role that came out fired up but eventually become demoralized bc of talent discrepancies.
Lastly, what type of penalties? Holding? Could be holding bc you aren't anywhere near as gifted as the opponent. Turnovers could be because the line is inferior and pass rush is smoking the QB as he throws. Could be because the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball well or WR doesn't have the ability to create separation (coaching choice to Call those plays but still).
We had quite a few 15 yarder this year bc we played with a tremendous amount of emotion and edge and sometimes stepped over that line, guess those two cancelled out but we will take aggressive penalties.
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 12:34:20 GMT -6
It's EASY to see on film which team has "morale" by who plays with the most intensity. A team with bad morale will just go thru the motions. A highly motivated team goes all out (& plays with "abandon"). I am not sure this is always the case. I think there are teams that play with intensity for a variety of purposes. I like the concept of morale as the major motivation. I definitely thing intensity through inspiration is a more positive and lasting approach. However, there are other means of motivating intensity than "morale." Two examples: As a Hoosier basketball fan I watched Bob Knight relentlessly coach his players to successfully compete with intensity. His success and motivation did not always lend itself to high morale. While many players respected his tutelage after the fact, many if not most hated it during the experience. That's not good morale. They played with intensity because they were part of a system that demanded it and delegated consequences when it was absent. In the book Coach: A Season with Lombardi it is was often discussed that Lombardi would threaten a player being cut if he didn't produce. Several players talked about how they were happier under Otto Graham, but they didn't play as well (probably because of the lack of intensity that drives execution.) I think intensity and playing as close to one's full effort-potential is very important. I do not know that it is always directly linked to morale. I may be splitting hairs, but to me morale and intensity are not the same thing. Unmotivated men hesitate to "lay their bodies on the line" be in warfare, or football (a FORM of warfare)! This quote has been attributed to many great military leaders, AND football coaches! I coached in close to 500 games in my career (HS & College) and found it to be invariably true for US! "The mental is to the physical as 4 is to 1"
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 12:36:24 GMT -6
Some very good points but I'd question if a few are really not talent related assuming coaches aren't sabotaging themselves 6 is talent related, highly doubt they are purposely playing slow guys if they have a faster physical disciplined option I think you can see some measures of morale etc but if you are a team getting stomped due to talent is that really the reason you lost bc morale started to drop in the second half or when you are 0-5 and go 3 and out while they pound you for a 90 yard touchdown drive? While we can all serve as morale builders I've seen teams in that role that came out fired up but eventually become demoralized bc of talent discrepancies. Lastly, what type of penalties? Holding? Could be holding bc you aren't anywhere near as gifted as the opponent. Turnovers could be because the line is inferior and pass rush is smoking the QB as he throws. Could be because the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball well or WR doesn't have the ability to create separation (coaching choice to Call those plays but still). We had quite a few 15 yarder this year bc we played with a tremendous amount of emotion and edge and sometimes stepped over that line, guess those two cancelled out but we will take aggressive penalties. That list (as stated) were factors OTHER than being out-talented. A jackass never won the Kentucky Derby!
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Post by fantom on Feb 10, 2017 12:43:33 GMT -6
Some very good points but I'd question if a few are really not talent related assuming coaches aren't sabotaging themselves 6 is talent related, highly doubt they are purposely playing slow guys if they have a faster physical disciplined option I think you can see some measures of morale etc but if you are a team getting stomped due to talent is that really the reason you lost bc morale started to drop in the second half or when you are 0-5 and go 3 and out while they pound you for a 90 yard touchdown drive? While we can all serve as morale builders I've seen teams in that role that came out fired up but eventually become demoralized bc of talent discrepancies. Lastly, what type of penalties? Holding? Could be holding bc you aren't anywhere near as gifted as the opponent. Turnovers could be because the line is inferior and pass rush is smoking the QB as he throws. Could be because the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball well or WR doesn't have the ability to create separation (coaching choice to Call those plays but still). We had quite a few 15 yarder this year bc we played with a tremendous amount of emotion and edge and sometimes stepped over that line, guess those two cancelled out but we will take aggressive penalties. I'm sure that Ace is talking about games between relatively even talent levels. We're not talking about games where tacklers are consistently getting trucked like Kevin Bacon at the Homecoming parade. Can't do anything about that. With run force (or contain, if that's your terminology) I'd take that to be a situation where the run force is at a disadvantage because of scheme. If you have one of your fastest guys responsible for force and he's still too slow, there isn't much that you can do about that. As for morale, sure, there have been games that as soon as we saw it on the schedule we knew that all we could do is hope that the other guy didn't run it up. Morale there won't be very good. The issue is games that should be competitive. We've all had games that we should have had a chance to win but didn't largely because the team came out flat and we didn't understand why. If it hasn't happened to you you haven't been doing this long enough. If it happens a lot you need to evaluate to see if you're doing something wrong.
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Post by aceback76 on Feb 10, 2017 12:48:40 GMT -6
Some very good points but I'd question if a few are really not talent related assuming coaches aren't sabotaging themselves 6 is talent related, highly doubt they are purposely playing slow guys if they have a faster physical disciplined option I think you can see some measures of morale etc but if you are a team getting stomped due to talent is that really the reason you lost bc morale started to drop in the second half or when you are 0-5 and go 3 and out while they pound you for a 90 yard touchdown drive? While we can all serve as morale builders I've seen teams in that role that came out fired up but eventually become demoralized bc of talent discrepancies. Lastly, what type of penalties? Holding? Could be holding bc you aren't anywhere near as gifted as the opponent. Turnovers could be because the line is inferior and pass rush is smoking the QB as he throws. Could be because the QB doesn't have the ability to throw the ball well or WR doesn't have the ability to create separation (coaching choice to Call those plays but still). We had quite a few 15 yarder this year bc we played with a tremendous amount of emotion and edge and sometimes stepped over that line, guess those two cancelled out but we will take aggressive penalties. I'm sure that Ace is talking about games between relatively even talent levels. We're not talking about games where tacklers are consistently getting trucked like Kevin Bacon at the Homecoming parade. Can't do anything about that. With run force (or contain, if that's your terminology) I'd take that to be a situation where the run force is at a disadvantage because of scheme. If you have one of your fastest guys responsible for force and he's still too slow, there isn't much that you can do about that. As for morale, sure, there have been games that as soon as we saw it on the schedule we knew that all we could do is hope that the other guy didn't run it up. Morale there won't be very good. The issue is games that should be competitive. We've all had games that we should have had a chance to win but didn't largely because the team came out flat and we didn't understand why. If it hasn't happened to you you haven't been doing this long enough. If it happens a lot you need to evaluate to see if you're doing something wrong. Exactly! I see a LOT of teams lose WITH talent (that are not motivated). Conversely, I see very few teams win without talent. If two team are roughly equal in talent, the motivated team will win just about every time. That is where "real coaching" comes in!
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Post by silkyice on Feb 10, 2017 12:52:35 GMT -6
8. Trying to throw on 2nd down with an 8 point lead and in 90%+ FG make range with 4 minutes to go. 9. Compounding the last dumbass call by trying to throw again while still in FG range and picking up a holding penalty to knock you out of FG range.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 10, 2017 12:54:47 GMT -6
IMO, when 2 teams are evenly matched it usually comes down to a team not winning the game but the other team LOSING the game.. I often say, lets just not lose. Common mistakes: the usual a fumble, pick, untimely penalty etc
BUT OFTEN THE COACH LOSES THE GAME w poor time mgt, getting greedy, allowing the team another possession
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 10, 2017 13:45:50 GMT -6
K whoa. Pump the brakes here. This is NOT a form of warfare.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 10, 2017 13:46:15 GMT -6
8. Trying to throw on 2nd down with an 8 point lead and in 90%+ FG make range with 4 minutes to go. 9. Compounding the last dumbass call by trying to throw again while still in FG range and picking up a holding penalty to knock you out of FG range. It just goes to show you there are dumba$$es at every level. I was with a pretty big program a few years ago and you would just not believe
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Post by wiscohscoach on Feb 10, 2017 13:46:45 GMT -6
Football being compared to warfare is laughable.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 10, 2017 14:08:30 GMT -6
I am not sure this is always the case. I think there are teams that play with intensity for a variety of purposes. I like the concept of morale as the major motivation. I definitely thing intensity through inspiration is a more positive and lasting approach. However, there are other means of motivating intensity than "morale." Two examples: As a Hoosier basketball fan I watched Bob Knight relentlessly coach his players to successfully compete with intensity. His success and motivation did not always lend itself to high morale. While many players respected his tutelage after the fact, many if not most hated it during the experience. That's not good morale. They played with intensity because they were part of a system that demanded it and delegated consequences when it was absent. In the book Coach: A Season with Lombardi it is was often discussed that Lombardi would threaten a player being cut if he didn't produce. Several players talked about how they were happier under Otto Graham, but they didn't play as well (probably because of the lack of intensity that drives execution.) I think intensity and playing as close to one's full effort-potential is very important. I do not know that it is always directly linked to morale. I may be splitting hairs, but to me morale and intensity are not the same thing. Unmotivated men hesitate to "lay their bodies on the line" be in warfare, or football (a FORM of warfare)! This quote has been attributed to many great military leaders, AND football coaches! I coached in close to 500 games in my career (HS & College) and found it to be invariably true for US! "The mental is to the physical as 4 is to 1" I never said unmotivated. My point is that motivation can vary and in some cases lead to intensity without fostering team morale. The original question was how do you find morale in film. Your answer was that it is easy to find morale by the team that plays with the most intensity. I don't think that is always the case. I think morale and motivation are both important but pertaining to the question of how you find morale on film, I do not believe it it simply comes down to intensity.
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