|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 9:18:12 GMT -6
I think those are entirely different circumstances. They are different circumstances but they are still related to each other. Essentially what these guys are saying is that for all the hard work someone else put in to help them get the opportunity to make that money means nothing to them and they throw their deuces up. Yes they are very talented and have both worked hard to get to where they are but they didn't do it alone. Without Fournette and McCaffrey, there probably is no bowl game.
|
|
dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
|
Post by dbeck84 on Dec 20, 2016 9:26:01 GMT -6
Couple thoughts... First, for those of you saying a bowl game is meaningless I question where our perception of sports has gone. I never played in a meaningless game and I've never coached in a meaningless game. Just because a game has no implication for playoffs or no other perceived reward it is meaningless? Sorry guys, I'm not following that logic. Second, I'll give you a somewhat comparable HS scenario that happened years ago and see how this sits with you all. We lost a close week 7 game which put us out of the playoffs. So we were playing two "meaningless" games. Two of our better players quit so they wouldn't get hurt before wrestling season. Both were great wrestlers who had legitimate shots at State and chances to wrestle in college (one wrestled at a big D1 school). You support their decision as a HS coach? The issue is that, right or wrong, this really doesn't have anything to do with sports. When you introduce millions of dollars into the equation, it becomes a business. These men made a business decision. If I had a son that had a full division 1 scholarship in hand, I would not want him to risk that scholarship playing another sport.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 9:27:13 GMT -6
The 2 players opting out have had injuries this year and their draft stock is cemented right now....unless they get hurt. It's a business decision like you said. 99.9% of college players are not an automatic top 15 pick right now and most of the ones that are, are playing in the CFB playoff. Most of these possible future NFL players are banking on a good performance in a bowl game and the senior bowl to boost their draft chances. Those guys have to play. We will go round and round with this all day but you can't argue that it's a selfish decision. If you take the money out of it those guys play period. Their decision to opt out on their teammates is low character. I don't think either one of these kids have low character at all. By all accounts, they are hardworking, honest, and have been good citizens.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2016 9:32:21 GMT -6
We will go round and round with this all day but you can't argue that it's a selfish decision. If you take the money out of it those guys play period. Their decision to opt out on their teammates is low character. I don't think either one of these kids have low character at all. By all accounts, they are hardworking, honest, and have been good citizens. Exactly. And you can't take the money out of it.
|
|
|
Post by funkfriss on Dec 20, 2016 9:40:20 GMT -6
Couple thoughts... First, for those of you saying a bowl game is meaningless I question where our perception of sports has gone. I never played in a meaningless game and I've never coached in a meaningless game. Just because a game has no implication for playoffs or no other perceived reward it is meaningless? Sorry guys, I'm not following that logic. Second, I'll give you a somewhat comparable HS scenario that happened years ago and see how this sits with you all. We lost a close week 7 game which put us out of the playoffs. So we were playing two "meaningless" games. Two of our better players quit so they wouldn't get hurt before wrestling season. Both were great wrestlers who had legitimate shots at State and chances to wrestle in college (one wrestled at a big D1 school). You support their decision as a HS coach? The issue is that, right or wrong, this really doesn't have anything to do with sports. When you introduce millions of dollars into the equation, it becomes a business. These men made a business decision. If I had a son that had a full division 1 scholarship in hand, I would not want him to risk that scholarship playing another sport. I don't disagree. My question is, why doesn't every high draft prospect do it? I'm willing to bet the biggest reason they don't do it is because they are competitors who want to win a game with their team and finish what they started. Competing, camaraderie, teamwork, finishing a job....these used to be virtues we wanted our young men to have. Now we're willing to let these slide as long as there is a personal gain attached to it. And for the record, coaches that leave before the season is over is sleazy too. Me before we I guess...
|
|
|
Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 9:42:55 GMT -6
We will go round and round with this all day but you can't argue that it's a selfish decision. If you take the money out of it those guys play period. Their decision to opt out on their teammates is low character. I don't think either one of these kids have low character at all. By all accounts, they are hardworking, honest, and have been good citizens. Fair enough. I don't doubt they are good citizens but this decision in my opinion is low character
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 9:43:35 GMT -6
The issue is that, right or wrong, this really doesn't have anything to do with sports. When you introduce millions of dollars into the equation, it becomes a business. These men made a business decision. If I had a son that had a full division 1 scholarship in hand, I would not want him to risk that scholarship playing another sport. I don't disagree. My question is, why doesn't every high draft prospect do it? I'm willing to bet the biggest reason they don't do it is because they are competitors who want to win a game with their team and finish what they started. Competing, camaraderie, teamwork, finishing a job....these used to be virtues we wanted our young men to have. Now we're willing to let these slide as long as there is a personal gain attached to it. And for the record, coaches that leave before the season is over is sleazy too. Me before we I guess... Name the other guys that aren't in the CFB playoffs or one of the big daddy's, like the Rose Bowl. These guys were talked into this by the way. I already posted what I thought about it.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2016 9:49:01 GMT -6
I don't think either one of these kids have low character at all. By all accounts, they are hardworking, honest, and have been good citizens. Fair enough. I don't doubt they are good citizens but this decision in my opinion is low character Alright. lets's slightly change the scenario: Instead of a Heisman candidate, the player in question is a fifth year senior offensive lineman, a free agent prospect at best. He got his BS in three years and has finished up his Masters. He has an offer for a great, high paying, fast-track job BUT he has to start Monday in New York and will have to miss the bowl game. Should he take it? If he does, does that make him low character?
|
|
dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
|
Post by dbeck84 on Dec 20, 2016 9:50:16 GMT -6
Why doesn't every high draft prospect do it? Because they're given bad advice?
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 9:53:43 GMT -6
Fair enough. I don't doubt they are good citizens but this decision in my opinion is low character Alright. lets's slightly change the scenario: Instead of a Heisman candidate, the player in question is a fifth year senior offensive lineman, a free agent prospect at best. He got his BS in three years and has finished up his Masters. He has an offer for a great, high paying, fast-track job BUT he has to start Monday in New York and will have to miss the bowl game. Should he take it? If he does, does that make him low character? I would totally support the 5th year senior if his "real world" job only allowed him to start on that day or not at all. How couldn't you?
|
|
|
Post by pvogel on Dec 20, 2016 9:54:50 GMT -6
I just want to point out too how its also a bit different for runningbacks. Super short shelf life. And its not about making money on that first check. Its about the 2nd check. So being able to renegotiate at 25 or 26 rather than 27 or 28. Lots of people believe you shouldnt resign running backs because a lot of times because they are usually in the twilight of their careers by their late 20s.
|
|
|
Post by CS on Dec 20, 2016 10:15:12 GMT -6
Fair enough. I don't doubt they are good citizens but this decision in my opinion is low character Alright. lets's slightly change the scenario: Instead of a Heisman candidate, the player in question is a fifth year senior offensive lineman, a free agent prospect at best. He got his BS in three years and has finished up his Masters. He has an offer for a great, high paying, fast-track job BUT he has to start Monday in New York and will have to miss the bowl game. Should he take it? If he does, does that make him low character? Lol! You got me. I would have to support that. However, I feel like that isn't the same as opting out to train for the combine
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Dec 20, 2016 10:27:50 GMT -6
I am disappointed but I see it. I would rather future NFL stars like McCaffery or Fournett just go after their junior year and bypass their whole senior year. I equate it a little to the high school multi sport star deciding he is giving up football to focus on basketball because he's concerned he might sprain an ankle.
McCaffrey and Fournette are both Juniors.
Oh that's right, they are. Well that shoots down my argument.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Dec 20, 2016 12:14:43 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by NC1974 on Dec 20, 2016 12:51:26 GMT -6
The NCAA has willingly helped turned big time Football in to a cash cow of a business. These types of decisions come with territory. I will never fault a 20-22 yr old kid for making a decision like this. Just another reason why it's hard to compare big time college football to high school football.
|
|
|
Post by **** on Dec 20, 2016 13:23:13 GMT -6
www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/jaylon-smith-sends-strong-message-about-bowl-injury/I think it depends on the situation. McCaffrey doesn't need money. His life was set up for success thanks to his parents. He is being selfish. I doubt Fournette has any money, plus he technically isn't 100%. Probably a good decision on his part. To answer the OL question I think it would be a smart decision to take the job and miss the bowl, but if the kid wanted to play his last game and look for another job later I would respect that decision because I would do the same thing. Knowing it was my last game I would want to play. I could get a job about anywhere I want after I graduate even though it might not be the best job in the world out of college.
|
|
|
Post by The Lunch Pail on Dec 20, 2016 15:43:56 GMT -6
It is a selfish move. And I think nothing but great things of McCaffrey and Fournette. They're making 20 year old types of decisions. Are you telling me that there is a 20 something college kid who would turn down millions of dollars to play in the Sun Bowl? Of course not. But does that really make it the right choice? Is he aware of the impact that his choices have on the state of NCAA football? He's thinking of what's best for ME right NOW and putting that before the team. The Merriam-Webster definition of "selfish" is "seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others". Doesn't that kind of apply to this situation?
As a fan of CFB, this is disturbing. College football, despite its many flaws and imperfections, still has an authenticity to its name that most major sports lack. Name another league where players DON'T control everything, the regular season actually matters, and players have been dying to wear that name on the front of their jerseys since they could walk. Sounds like HSFB, doesn't it? That's why it is so, for lack of a better term, a "pure" experience. People can relate to the overbearing vibes of team spirit and camaraderie college football gives off.
I'm afraid if we put too much power in the hands of 20 year old kids, it'll turn into College Basketball. It'll be the complete opposite. No team spirit, all business decisions, and all of the major players will be more considerate of their draft status than their team.
And about the bowl games, yes there are too many. But I completely agree with Funkfriss, there is no such thing as a "meaningless game". If there's a team on the other sideline, it's a meaningful game IMO. If we think anything that isn't a championship is a meaningless game, why do the last 3 games matter to a HS team that won't make the playoffs? Should you just accept mediocrity and think "there's always next year"?
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Dec 20, 2016 15:59:20 GMT -6
I don't agree with its "a 20 year old type of decision". This is a family telling them what to do decision.
Knowing how competitive these guys are, if it was solely up to them, I think they would play. I also think without a doubt if they were in the playoffs, they would play.
|
|
|
Post by breakerdog on Dec 20, 2016 16:14:39 GMT -6
Without getting too far down the black hole of politics, I am a big fan of protecting a persons civil liberties. I fully support anyone making decisions based on their own best interest. As someone else pointed out earlier, the market will correct this if it's a problem for NFL teams. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that any NFL team is going to downgrade a player for sitting out a bowl game.
What I really don't like to see is any hint of the NCAA attempting to get on their high horse and create legislation against anyone making their own choices. I think it's already a bad deal that guys like Leonard Fournette have to stay in school an extra year due to the draft agreement. He likely would have been a first rounder last year and has lost millions because of collusion between the NCAA and the NFL. The NCAA is big business and any attempt to whitewash this with talk of tradition and "doing whats best for the game" is laughable. The people that run the NCAA do whats best for the bottom line. Period. Any player doing the same thing shouldn't be villified.
I love college football, but anyone who thinks it's the same business model as high school needs to visit a power 5 programs facilities and then remember that the NCAA says it can't afford to pay the players.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 17:05:50 GMT -6
It's not just about the money, in my mind. Why would these guys want to risk their ability to play the game for a few more years? Plus, as others have pointed out, this wouldn't be an issue if there was a REAL FBS play-off. I don't know if that is truly the case... Neither LSU nor Stanford would be in any 16 team playoff (based on the CFP rankings) Also, even if there were to be a "real" playoff (I am assuming you simply mean a larger field) what about guys like Myles Garrett or Mitch Trubisky (two of the top pics on several mock drafts) whose teams aren't making it. Or what about Someone like Malik McDowell of Michigan State? Does he just shut it down in week 8 when the Spartans are 2-6? I absolutely can see that start to happen in the future.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 17:06:19 GMT -6
They are different circumstances but they are still related to each other. Essentially what these guys are saying is that for all the hard work someone else put in to help them get the opportunity to make that money means nothing to them and they throw their deuces up. Yes they are very talented and have both worked hard to get to where they are but they didn't do it alone. Without Fournette and McCaffrey, there probably is no bowl game. Fournette had absolutely nothing to do with LSU's "success" this season.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 17:07:56 GMT -6
Without Fournette and McCaffrey, there probably is no bowl game. Fournette had absolutely nothing to do with LSU's "success" this season. Nothing? Really?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 17:14:32 GMT -6
I don't disagree. My question is, why doesn't every high draft prospect do it? I'm willing to bet the biggest reason they don't do it is because they are competitors who want to win a game with their team and finish what they started. Competing, camaraderie, teamwork, finishing a job....these used to be virtues we wanted our young men to have. Now we're willing to let these slide as long as there is a personal gain attached to it. And for the record, coaches that leave before the season is over is sleazy too. Me before we I guess... Name the other guys that aren't in the CFB playoffs or one of the big daddy's, like the Rose Bowl. These guys were talked into this by the way. I already posted what I thought about it. Myles Garret from A&M is mentioned as a top 5 pick. Mitch Trubisky from North Carolina State is the #1 pick on some mock drafts.
|
|
|
Post by mrjvi on Dec 20, 2016 17:16:59 GMT -6
I've rarely seen a topic with such a diversity of opinions. AWESOME.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 17:22:07 GMT -6
Fournette had absolutely nothing to do with LSU's "success" this season. Nothing? Really? Really. His Backup Derrius Guice (Baton Rouge native) out performed Leonard in Total yards, Yards per carry, touchdowns, longest run while splitting carries with Fournette. He really had very little impact on any of the LSU wins.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 17:24:08 GMT -6
Really. His Backup Derrius Guice (Baton Rouge native) out performed Leonard in Total yards, Yards per carry, touchdowns, longest run while splitting carries with Fournette. He really had very little impact on any of the LSU wins. So then LSU shouldn't miss a beat without Fournette in the bowl game.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2016 17:26:04 GMT -6
Really. His Backup Derrius Guice (Baton Rouge native) out performed Leonard in Total yards, Yards per carry, touchdowns, longest run while splitting carries with Fournette. He really had very little impact on any of the LSU wins. So then LSU shouldn't miss a beat without Fournette in the bowl game. Honestly? Probably not. It is probably the reason that those here in this region are very supportive of the decision.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 17:31:23 GMT -6
I don't think either one of these kids have low character at all. By all accounts, they are hardworking, honest, and have been good citizens. Fair enough. I don't doubt they are good citizens but this decision in my opinion is low character I do agree that it is perhaps a short-sighted decision. But I don't think it shows low character. I don't think that is the right adjective.
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on Dec 20, 2016 17:35:30 GMT -6
So then LSU shouldn't miss a beat without Fournette in the bowl game. Honestly? Probably not. It is probably the reason that those here in this region are very supportive of the decision. This is why I have to imagine that the coaches at LSU and Stanford are supporting Fournette and McCaffrey. What's ultimately more important? Winning a bowl game or getting your underclassmen another couple weeks of practice and a game against a worthy opponent? Wouldn't most coaches take the extra 6 weeks of practice? Know what you have going into spring football?
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2016 17:37:32 GMT -6
The NCAA has willingly helped turned big time Football in to a cash cow of a business. These types of decisions come with territory. I will never fault a 20-22 yr old kid for making a decision like this. Just another reason why it's hard to compare big time college football to high school football. Turned? When wasn't it a cash cow?
|
|