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Post by rbsuknow on Dec 12, 2007 23:11:37 GMT -6
A little background. I didn't join my current staff until 2 days before 2 a days and was the assistant OC. After week 5 the HC tells me that he wants me to take over the Offense. So now it's up to me. This is the first time I have ever been "The MAN".
So my question to everyone is, How many plays do you try to get in the game plan for week 1 with having the entire off-season to put stuff in?
I have my playbook and have my base plays, run and pass. Trap Power Toss Counter + about 10 others, but those are my 4 base plays
I want to be 60/40 run to pass, in a perfect world.
I have about 20 different formations.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks, Coach E
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Post by cjkal30 on Dec 13, 2007 7:13:53 GMT -6
Coach Last year was my first yr as oc and what I would tell you is it depends on your players. I put in what they could handle. For me it was almost everything I had! Basically everything and then as the yr progressed we added a few wrinkles. But if your kids understand what your doing then you can keep going.
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zwaps
Freshmen Member
Posts: 29
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Post by zwaps on Dec 13, 2007 9:59:57 GMT -6
A little background. I didn't join my current staff until 2 days before 2 a days and was the assistant OC. After week 5 the HC tells me that he wants me to take over the Offense. So now it's up to me. This is the first time I have ever been "The MAN". So my question to everyone is, How many plays do you try to get in the game plan for week 1 with having the entire off-season to put stuff in? I have my playbook and have my base plays, run and pass. Trap Power Toss Counter + about 10 others, but those are my 4 base plays I want to be 60/40 run to pass, in a perfect world. I have about 20 different formations. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Coach E Where is your system/series?
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Post by wingt74 on Dec 13, 2007 10:07:54 GMT -6
Assuming High School Varsity?
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Post by rbsuknow on Dec 13, 2007 18:28:26 GMT -6
that's kind of what i was planning to do......just feed the little monsters until they are full
i don't understand what you are asking "system/series"?
and yes High School Varsity
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Post by briangilbert on Dec 13, 2007 20:36:54 GMT -6
20 Formations seems like a lot. I would probably cut that in half at least especially since you are new to a school.
Have 4 basic running plays and develop a great quick game and then go from there.
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Post by rbsuknow on Dec 13, 2007 20:43:31 GMT -6
20 Formations seems like a lot. I would probably cut that in half at least especially since you are new to a school. Have 4 basic running plays and develop a great quick game and then go from there. i know it seems like a lot, but in the 4 games that i had the O for we only ran out of 4-6 different formations in our last game we only ran out of 2 different formations
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Post by spartancoach on Dec 14, 2007 7:07:06 GMT -6
Our thoughts on how much is "too much" - I'm a big proponent at getting very good at "what you do." That being said, I am always less concerned about how many "plays" we run, as how many "blocking schemes" we run (we only run 3). Installing "plays" is easy for the QB, backs and receivers, but if the OL doesn't have the blocking schemes down pat, you are doomed. As long as the "plays" fit an existing scheme, and are profitable (give us something additional that is worth the additional practice time), then OK. If it is something new for the big men, it better be very special for us to add it.
We usually like to keep pretty simple: (1) be able to hit inside and outside with a man scheme play, a zone scheme play and a down scheme play; (2) have a play action pass off your 3 best running plays; (3) 3-4 quick passing concepts; and (4) 3-4 "air raid-type" concepts.
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Post by lochness on Dec 14, 2007 9:30:39 GMT -6
that's kind of what i was planning to do......just feed the little monsters until they are full i don't understand what you are asking "system/series"? and yes High School Varsity Coach, This question means "What kind of offense are you going to run" Before you think about anything else, you really need to be able to answer this question. You're going to run Trap, Power, Toss, and Counter out of what? The I, Wing T, Gun Spread, Single Back, Double Wing? Pretty much every offense has these base plays in them. The question you have to ask yourself is what is the STRUCTURE that you are going to build around these plays? What is the PHILOSOPHY? How are you going to best utilize personnel? What is the consistent thread that is going to tie the offense together into a logical and cohesive package? Those other 10 plays, do they compliment these "base" plays in any kind of series format, or are you just planning on running plays with no complimentary stuff. What was the offense the last OC ran? Are you keeping the same structure in place or changing it? Why or why not? These are questions you need to answer before you think about anything else. Just my opinion.
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Post by brophy on Dec 14, 2007 9:36:24 GMT -6
i don't understand what you are asking "system/series"? OH SH***!! I think you have to really challenge yourself to understand how you are going to move the ball on your opponent. How are you going to attack the defense and put your team in successful scenarios. Calling plays isn't about 'imposing your will'........it is about well-calculated decisions based on the information at hand. If your opponent is in C2 all night, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense trying to beat your head against the wall trying to get that flat throw..... Have a plan to move the ball based on what you are given. How are those formations affecting the defense to set up the matchup you want? As alluded to in another thread, you might be better served reading Billick's old book about Game Planning......develop the scope of offense with a purpose and don't be out there just practicing "plays" 1) what is your base package? 2) what is the Week1 defense you will be facing? 3) what is that Week1's weakness? 4) what in your base package would exploit that weakness? 5) what personnel/formations would inherently cause this defense stress? 6) if they stop your 'money play' what is the comparable counter to that play? 7) what are you guys running that is causing the defense to slow down? 8) what prevents your opponent from sending the house at you? 9) what are you doing that is going to keep the DC up at night? 10) what are you doing that your kids will know their assignments in THEIR sleep? Know the rationale behind what you want those kids to do. Have an answer for when you're down by 10 and that 3 tech is just peeing in your oatmeal all night. Ask the questions NOW so you don't get exposed on Friday
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pal
Freshmen Member
Posts: 73
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Post by pal on Dec 14, 2007 9:49:59 GMT -6
totally depends on your players...I've had teams who could pick up most of the playbook by week 1, and some that couldn't even get off of page 1 by the end of the year.
Just get a feel, it's hard for someone who is not there to say
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Post by rbsuknow on Dec 14, 2007 19:54:27 GMT -6
that's kind of what i was planning to do......just feed the little monsters until they are full i don't understand what you are asking "system/series"? and yes High School Varsity Coach, This question means "What kind of offense are you going to run" Before you think about anything else, you really need to be able to answer this question. You're going to run Trap, Power, Toss, and Counter out of what? The I, Wing T, Gun Spread, Single Back, Double Wing? Pretty much every offense has these base plays in them. The question you have to ask yourself is what is the STRUCTURE that you are going to build around these plays? What is the PHILOSOPHY? How are you going to best utilize personnel? What is the consistent thread that is going to tie the offense together into a logical and cohesive package? Those other 10 plays, do they compliment these "base" plays in any kind of series format, or are you just planning on running plays with no complimentary stuff. What was the offense the last OC ran? Are you keeping the same structure in place or changing it? Why or why not? These are questions you need to answer before you think about anything else. Just my opinion. ok, base formation I, and a variation of the power I, with some single back 2x2 and 1x3 the base blocking schemes would be trap, down, man, reach we will run mainly out of I with some PA and 3 step, and throw out of singleback (bubble screens, and 4 combination routes) with some run mixed in. Here are all of the run plays: Trap (FB goes straight over center) Fake Toss Trap (FB takes jab step to fake toss then goes back the other way, same blocking as trap for the OL) Dive (FB runs to the bubble in DL) Lead (OL down blocks, FB kicks DE, TB follows FB) Power (OL down blocks, BSG pulls, FB kicks DE, TB follows FB to BSG) Reach Toss (OL reach blocks, FB leads around end, TB follows FB Power Toss (OL down blocks, BSG pulls, FB kicks DE, TB follows FB to BSG) Counter (OL down blocks, BSG pulls and kicks end, FB fills for BSG, TB jab steps and follows BSG Iso (OL man blocks, FB blocks OLB, TB follows FB) Reverse (OL reach blocks) Draw (OL man blocks, FB blocks MLB, TB follows FB) Fly Sweep (OL reach blocks, FB leads around end, TB fakes option away) the only reason i even thinking of this is b/c i have 8 athletic kids that are WR types (kids that can't run the ball more than 10 times a game) and only 4 RB types. QB trap (OL trap blocks, FB fakes Dive, TB fakes option, QB fakes to FB then turns and follows pulling G) Trap QB follow (run trap and QB follows FB) PAP: BOB pass pro off of Trap Power Toss Counter 3 step: Slide pass pro Hitch Out Fade Slant Combo Routes: Slide pass pro Flood Wheel Smash and what i like to call "K" (a variation of smash) Bubble screens: (PST or TE will free release to OLB, rest of OL will block for a 2 count then get up field) 1 (to the outside WR) 2 (to the #2 WR) 3 (to the #3 WR) 4 (to the RB) i hope this explains what i am trying to do. last year we went to the spread and scored 20 points in 5 games. i don't think anyone bought into the system. i tried but it wasn't explained to me well. in week six we went to the I. so no i am not keeping the same structure as previous years. in the past 3 years this school is 3-24. I think it's time for a change. i plan on coaching the OL this year b/c i feel if we can't do it up front it won't matter what we do in the backfield. i don't plan on just running plays, that is what the HC did. i plan to teach everything in a 1-2-3 method. for example, linemen: first step, second step, finish. i feel that after the first 3 steps you have to react to your opponent. now if you do these 3 steps low and faster than you opponent more than likely you will beat him. thanks for the comments, i have had all of this info in my head but this is making me put it down on paper and try to think like a HS football player that just learned what football was yesterday.
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Post by thebulldog on Dec 16, 2007 13:35:51 GMT -6
Not sure if you saw my post on the Triple Shoot Clinic I attended this weekend. I have been a head coach for over 20 years at the high school level and I was even a GA in college before that. I wish I would have had a system like what I saw this weekend, it would have made life easier. After I saw what you are doing and what you are about to get into, it made me think about some stuff that Coach Matsakis said this past weekend. In a nutshell, A great way to run an offense is to have a system that not only you understand but the players can know even better than the coaches (I never really thought of that, I was always worried about losing control), He also said that a solid offense should always begin with a thorough approach to analyzing defenses that you will see, so there are no surprises and that limiting your formations does simplifiy what you will face. Also, he said that if you can't practice the whole system in one practice, you are doing too much and I have made that mistake for over 20 years. These are not my ideas, they are his, but I do believe it all now after seeing this guy put it to the test. In essence, what I'm saying is ... if you want to be a great OC then go find a mentor in a system that is a master and put it to the test instead of just spending money on attending clinics to look for a little wrinkle here and there and all of a sudden the playbook is so big that only you understand it and your position coaches and players struggle on the practice field an in the game. Good luck.
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de58
Freshmen Member
Posts: 67
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Post by de58 on Dec 17, 2007 11:47:21 GMT -6
Not sure if you saw my post on the Triple Shoot Clinic I attended this weekend. I have been a head coach for over 20 years at the high school level and I was even a GA in college before that. I wish I would have had a system like what I saw this weekend, it would have made life easier. After I saw what you are doing and what you are about to get into, it made me think about some stuff that Coach Matsakis said this past weekend. In a nutshell, A great way to run an offense is to have a system that not only you understand but the players can know even better than the coaches (I never really thought of that, I was always worried about losing control), He also said that a solid offense should always begin with a thorough approach to analyzing defenses that you will see, so there are no surprises and that limiting your formations does simplifiy what you will face. Also, he said that if you can't practice the whole system in one practice, you are doing too much and I have made that mistake for over 20 years. These are not my ideas, they are his, but I do believe it all now after seeing this guy put it to the test. In essence, what I'm saying is ... if you want to be a great OC then go find a mentor in a system that is a master and put it to the test instead of just spending money on attending clinics to look for a little wrinkle here and there and all of a sudden the playbook is so big that only you understand it and your position coaches and players struggle on the practice field an in the game. Good luck. That is really great advice.
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