kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Mar 19, 2008 9:09:53 GMT -6
Our baseball coach (young guy about 26) first year as HC very hard nosed guy - good coach. One of the pre-season rules he made - 3 unexcused absences and your off the team. Yesterday one of the better players was suspended for 3 days for starting a fight. Find out he's had 2 deaths in the family in 2 mo.(grandmother & close family friend) - I don't know if this effected him or not. kid did all off-season work asked, get decent grades, is a decent kid (all around average kid - not a standout leader, but does what they asked of him) My philosophy on rules is to never set a hard and fast rule - always give yourself an out ie "Do Right Rule" ala Lou Holtz.
Should the coach back down or stick to his rule?
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Post by gunrun on Mar 19, 2008 9:49:53 GMT -6
The coach kind of made it hard on himself with the absolute rule, but I would explain to the team my rationale for letting the kid back on the team. I would also make it clear not to expect being able to break the rules, but common sense says that the situation warranted an exception.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 19, 2008 12:37:26 GMT -6
My guess from what you are implying is that the intent of the rule is three different incidents of absences. Miss one today, one next week, one in a month or whatever.
I think the coach could amend the rule and explain what he meant. I believe most players and parents could understand that.
The player would certainly need to make up running and at least be suspended from some games.
But it does undermine the coach a little no matter what, even if just to show that he hasn't thought everything through. (In reality, none of us has thought every single thing through).
It can also make it difficult on him when another player misses three different times for things not as bad as fighting in school. Had to go on a field trip, or brother's wedding, or whatever. Maybe some of these are excused maybe not. Anyways, when you go to kick him off the team, a parent could have a problem with one kid missing three for fighting and staying on the team, and his kid missing three but getting kicked off.
This certainly will make me double check how I word and say things. I have a similar type of policy, but add in that situations can be different based on circumstances, and the head coach has the final say. This gives me some leeway when something happens that I didn't foresee.
If I was the coach I would keep the kid. I just have to believe that kids deserve a second opportunity to make things right in most circumstances. Obviously on some things you don't get a second chance, but on most you should.
But I have no problem with the coach sticking to his guns and dismissing the kid.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 19, 2008 12:51:51 GMT -6
as a HC, I am the only one who can excuse an absence. That gives you some wiggle room.
Our ATHLETIC policy states that if you are suspend, you are on probation. 2nd offense 90 school days suspension from athletic participation (weight lifting included).
And I would treat this as 1 unecused absence. Game off and killing grass on the hill will go as additional punishment.
Even if you suspend him or throw him off the team, it is NOT double jeapordy. Athletes are held to a higher standard.
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Post by briangilbert on Mar 19, 2008 17:20:35 GMT -6
One Question:
Is this kid not playing football in the best interest of the kid?
Is this kid not playing football in the best interest of the team?
That is all you need to know.
Absolutes in football DO NOT WORK.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 19, 2008 19:02:34 GMT -6
Absolutes with PEOPLE do not work.
No matter what a great technician or X and O guy a coach is, he has to recognize that he's working with people if he is to last in this profession.
I've changed a policy because it made sense and I explained it to my admin, my coaches and my ball players. Nobody expected me to do it but it was the right thing.
People will ultimately judge a coach on how well he uses his brains, resources and common sense. I'm not spouting off because I've been that rigid coach who had stood by his policies and thought that was the best way to garner respect. It's not. It's one way to be respected but it's not the best way.
It's much easier to hide behind policies and absolutes but it takes a leader to understand the weaknesses of policies. Staying black and white requires no thinking.
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Post by tog on Mar 19, 2008 19:13:58 GMT -6
Absolutes with PEOPLE do not work. No matter what a great technician or X and O guy a coach is, he has to recognize that he's working with people if he is to last in this profession. I've changed a policy because it made sense and I explained it to my admin, my coaches and my ball players. Nobody expected me to do it but it was the right thing. People will ultimately judge a coach on how well he uses his brains, resources and common sense. I'm not spouting off because I've been that rigid coach who had stood by his policies and thought that was the best way to garner respect. It's not. It's one way to be respected but it's not the best way. It's much easier to hide behind policies and absolutes but it takes a leader to understand the weaknesses of policies. Staying black and white requires no thinking. [glow=red,2,300]this is about the wisest advice I have seen on this site ever[/glow] |
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Post by dhooper on Mar 19, 2008 19:52:42 GMT -6
I have the same rule. But my rule states three unexcused your off the team. Those sound excused. It comes down to me the head coach and thats the way it should be.
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Post by fatkicker on Mar 19, 2008 22:08:24 GMT -6
i prevent situations like this with a little line in my preseason "rule book"......
the coaching staff reserves the right to take considerations in exceptional situations.
and consider this...would this even be a conversation if the kid in question was a 3rd team jv 2nd baseman?
probably not........
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Post by coachmoore42 on Mar 19, 2008 23:36:04 GMT -6
We also had a similar rule, two unexcused and you're off the team.
Our "out" was another rule that stated two separate ISS/OSS/ACS visits and you were also gone. That was our way of separating them. One unexcused and one school suspension, you're in trouble but still on the team. Two of either we figured to be a big problem. By the way, one of either got a player suspended for a game as well. It worked well for us. In three years of that rule we only had to kick one starter off of the team. Now we did have a few suspended for a game at one time or another.
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Fridge
Sophomore Member
Re-Building the Bocholt Rhinos (18+) in Germany for 2024.
Posts: 148 
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Post by Fridge on Mar 20, 2008 2:24:00 GMT -6
Here in Germany we are club-based, so it is way more difficult to enforce such rules. The kids (their parents) have to pay monthly club-fees, pay for their equipment (which is quite expensive here) and come in their free time after school.
In our team, we have some rules concerning attendance.
If you´re attending less than 75%, you cannot become a starter and only get some plays as backup.
If you´re attending less than 50%, you will not dress up.
If you´re unexcused more than 10 times, you will be off of the team. But that means, you still can practice with the team, but your ability to play in that season is over.
In practices you will be used as a dummy, if needed, and only get a few repetitions.
Our "out" is the team itself. If the team wants a former player back, after he missed more than 10 practices unexcused, they can get him back. But this - in 12yrs of coaching - happened only one time.
A player, who falls below 75 or 50% due to an injury, will not loose his starting position, when he´s healthy again and in his former shape. If he cannot be at his former 100%, he looses his starter position.
This may sound awkward, but football here is just a free-time hobby, so we have to live with a minor attendance. My team has appr. 30 of 40 players at practice.
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Post by ghscoach on Mar 20, 2008 4:51:07 GMT -6
I guess the whole thing depends on how you define an unexcused practice. First the kid or the parent has to call me and notify me why he is not going to be at practice. At that point I will tell them if the occurrence will be considered unexcused or not. If the kid is a no call no show to practice it is and automatic unexcused unless there is an extreme circumstance verified by a parent. With the number of kids carrying cell phones these days I really feel that if I don’t at least call someone better be dead or dieing. We hand out business cards at the beginning of the year with our home, work and cell phone numbers on them.
In a case like this I may let the team decide what to do. In the end kid let the team down by getting in the fight and not being able to play they are the ones that are going to suffer. So if they forgive him I have no problem forgiving him.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Mar 20, 2008 9:40:57 GMT -6
Well the stuff hit the fan. Parents came charging in demanding meeting with principal & AD - Principal (great guy 22 yrs as HC Baseball - 12 years as Principal - really knows his stuff) Amazing how wise this board is - principal came up with basically the same ideas on this thread - official line kid was not given "due process" according to district policy. Young coach is pretty shook up about it but principal addressed the issue with the team and sternly warned about missing practice etc and he completely backed up the coach and smoothed things over - privately he told the coach to "reassess" his rules and policies.
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Post by ghscoach on Mar 20, 2008 10:09:37 GMT -6
Sounds to me like the right thing happened it the end. IMO the missed practices should not have been unexcused. He was punished by the school for something that occurred in school. So unless the schools athletic codes specifically states the athlete will be removed form the team for the specific violation then it would be a stretch to call the missed practices unexcused due to the fact the school was telling the kid he could not participate.
Sounds like the coach learned a lesson he will not soon forget. Perhaps he will choose how he defines a unexcused practice from now on. Maybe the coach will get the full approval of the AD, principal and other parties before he just dismisses a kid next time as well. It is always good to go into a fight like this knowing you have both barrels loaded. I.E. the administration has your back. Any kid I have had to dismiss (two in 10 years) I have done this. If my AD says let the kid go it’s a done deal. If not, I let the kid keep digging his hole until the AD says let him go.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 20, 2008 10:21:04 GMT -6
My policy is as follows-
-3 unexcused absences from practice gets you a seat on the bench for one game. They are accumlative; every unexcused absence above 3 gets you another game missed. I never kick a kid off of a team, but I will not play them. Generally, once the kid gets sat for a game, he either gets it together or he quits.
-I am the only one that excuses absences, but I follow school policies. If he missed school and practice, and school is excused, then practice is excused. If the school absence is unexcused, then practice is as well. If the kid shows up late for practice because of detention, then the practice is considered unexcused.
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Post by ghscoach on Mar 20, 2008 11:46:40 GMT -6
-I am the only one that excuses absences, but I follow school policies. If he missed school and practice, and school is excused, then practice is excused. If the school absence is unexcused, then practice is as well. If the kid shows up late for practice because of detention, then the practice is considered unexcused. Not to steer this thread down a different path but, what do you guys consider an excused absence other than the normal funeral, doctors’ appointment, or other similar appointments? Is the kid required to talk to you before missing? Are you more lenient if you know well in advance? The reason I ask is we always seem to have parents schedule family vacations or long weekends at the tail end of summer while two-a-days are going on. How do you handle these situations? Our head coach’s opinion is that they knew I was going to be football season when they made the plans so he favors sitting the kid for preseason scrimmage and part of the first game. I am of a different opinion and say the situation is well beyond the kids control so I would only like to see them sit for part of the preseason scrimmage. We as coaches have no idea of circumstances that lead to them scheduling it when they did. Not every one has the benefit of having the whole summer off work like teachers. Many people with regular everyday jobs may need to schedule their lives around a number of other people’s lives that they work with. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 20, 2008 19:03:50 GMT -6
-I am the only one that excuses absences, but I follow school policies. If he missed school and practice, and school is excused, then practice is excused. If the school absence is unexcused, then practice is as well. If the kid shows up late for practice because of detention, then the practice is considered unexcused. Not to steer this thread down a different path but, what do you guys consider an excused absence other than the normal funeral, doctors’ appointment, or other similar appointments? Is the kid required to talk to you before missing? Are you more lenient if you know well in advance? The reason I ask is we always seem to have parents schedule family vacations or long weekends at the tail end of summer while two-a-days are going on. How do you handle these situations? Our head coach’s opinion is that they knew I was going to be football season when they made the plans so he favors sitting the kid for preseason scrimmage and part of the first game. I am of a different opinion and say the situation is well beyond the kids control so I would only like to see them sit for part of the preseason scrimmage. We as coaches have no idea of circumstances that lead to them scheduling it when they did. Not every one has the benefit of having the whole summer off work like teachers. Many people with regular everyday jobs may need to schedule their lives around a number of other people’s lives that they work with. Have a parent meeting EARLY in the Year..with a SCHEDULE of all of the upcoming events (offseason conditioning, spring practice schedule, spring game, summer workout schedule, camp dates...etc. ) Impress upon the parents in this GROUP setting that their children are making a commitment, and that actions have consequences that go BEYOND themselves. You can always use this nice group setting to tell a story from a "previous season" --real or made up..as long as the details fit what you need. This is a great time to paint a scenario that EVERYONE can easily see is fair to all, and paint a picture where EVERYONE can see how the one "jerk parent" in your "story" affected more than just themselves. It is always a great way to show Billy and Jimmy's parents that when Billy misses practice, it affects Jimmy. Peer Pressure at its best. It has been my experience that most people are very reasonable in group settings, when the particulars don't involve THEM at the moment. I think everyone could see "hey, we can't schedule any trips July 24-end of state championship game..." and would be fine with it. The problem comes in those one on one situations.... When you didn't announce in advance to the GROUP how detrimental it is to EVERYONE when one person wants to go fishing with the family. |
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Post by fatkicker on Mar 20, 2008 22:53:41 GMT -6
are we forgetting that this kid started a fight? surely your rule book says something about out of school suspensions, fighting, etc.......
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Post by coachmoore42 on Mar 25, 2008 0:48:01 GMT -6
Not to steer this thread down a different path but, what do you guys consider an excused absence other than the normal funeral, doctors’ appointment, or other similar appointments? Is the kid required to talk to you before missing? Are you more lenient if you know well in advance? Not present at school = excused Valid reason, approved ahead of time by the HC = excused Any absence that was not approved prior to the miss, but the student was at school at some point during the day = unexcused We accept most reasons as valid to miss (short of my tummy hurts or I have a headache, the obvious cop-out ones). The only requirement is that you inform the HC prior to missing. The big thing is that they have to tell the HC personally. Not a friend, not a mom call, you have to go face-to-face and tell the Head Man that you won't be there and why. Has been very effective for us for about three years. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 25, 2008 6:23:54 GMT -6
-I am the only one that excuses absences, but I follow school policies. If he missed school and practice, and school is excused, then practice is excused. If the school absence is unexcused, then practice is as well. If the kid shows up late for practice because of detention, then the practice is considered unexcused. Not to steer this thread down a different path but, what do you guys consider an excused absence other than the normal funeral, doctors’ appointment, or other similar appointments? Is the kid required to talk to you before missing? Are you more lenient if you know well in advance? The reason I ask is we always seem to have parents schedule family vacations or long weekends at the tail end of summer while two-a-days are going on. How do you handle these situations? Our head coach’s opinion is that they knew I was going to be football season when they made the plans so he favors sitting the kid for preseason scrimmage and part of the first game. I am of a different opinion and say the situation is well beyond the kids control so I would only like to see them sit for part of the preseason scrimmage. We as coaches have no idea of circumstances that lead to them scheduling it when they did. Not every one has the benefit of having the whole summer off work like teachers. Many people with regular everyday jobs may need to schedule their lives around a number of other people’s lives that they work with. If you make a calender ahead of time and maybe map out some time that vacation is 'OK' that might help the situation. |
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