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Post by theprez98 on Feb 3, 2008 22:08:42 GMT -6
jeeezzz.....okay, okay...All I am attempting to do is give credit to the Giant's defense, not start a debate of each side of the ball. How about this, taking into consideration all the factors that can impact a game. (Defense,Offense, AND Special Teams). The friggin' Giants defense played the best. Yes, the team played great too. And with this, I agree.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 3, 2008 22:08:51 GMT -6
Yes I agree the Giants defense was amazing
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Post by coachjoe3 on Feb 3, 2008 22:15:24 GMT -6
If I'm the offensive coor. I tell the HC to run a kicker out on 4th and 13 instead of going for it. I think a 47 yarder is a higher percentage play than 4 and 13 I actually thought that punting in that situation would have been a good call if you didn't think your kicker could make it...the way the Pats were playing in defense at that point, trying to pin the Giants deep and make them go the length of the field seemed like a good decision. I just didn't think that there was any way at all the Pats were going to convert that 4th and 13th the way Brady was playing and the way the NY pass rush was bearing down on him. Yeah, that pass rush gave me fits. I wasn't a big fan of that call either . . . my four year old boy learned a new word today . . .
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 3, 2008 22:29:42 GMT -6
I think going for it should have been the last decision on the list.
1) Field Goal - Indoors, 47 yards is pretty high % 2) Punt - Pin them deep. 13 yards is a very difficult 4th down conversion 3) Go for it
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 3, 2008 22:30:46 GMT -6
I think a huge contributer to the Giants defensive success was because they had the Pats pinned in their own end the whole game. Only time the Pats had great field position was the first drive where they scored.
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Post by swarmhc on Feb 3, 2008 23:48:17 GMT -6
On the subject of defensive football... has anyone come across any information about the Giants blitz ratio versus the Patriots? I know they got a ton of pressure, and big plays, with just their front 4. The forced fumble, the 4th down play, etc. Has anyone seen how often they sent players, as opposed to relying on the awesome effort of their front 4? Just curious.
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Post by CVBears on Feb 4, 2008 0:50:39 GMT -6
I just don't see how anyone with a sound mind can say anything other than, "without the tremendous play of the NYG Defense, specifically all of the DL in the rotation, the NYG would not have won superbowl 42." Were there other factors? Of course. But if we are talking about the bottom line, the defense earned them the opportunity to win a championship today.
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Post by coryell2009 on Feb 4, 2008 1:02:11 GMT -6
That Giants pass rush was murderous... If you were the Pats O/C, what would you have done differently? Hmm. Take advantage of such blatant double teams on Moss. Max Protect? He was killing the Giants double coverage for the shots the TV showed. I believe Troy commented on it.....I need to see the play by play chart but they only threw passes his way in the 4th. Two of the sacks came on balls that if they had been able to launch them INBOUNDS would have been surefire tds. The question I have for the OC's here, since I'm relatively new at this is how would you utilize a deep threat like Moss?
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Post by morris on Feb 4, 2008 6:35:51 GMT -6
The first time they played the Gaints blitzed around 33% of the time. I would not be surprised that the ratio was fairly the same.
On the 4th and 13 call they wanted to go to Faulk. I like to clear out an dbring him underneath of the coverage on option routes. They make a killing off of that. Well when Faulk tried to go through the B gap to release the Gaint LBer almost tackled him. Brady had to pull the ball back down and then force it out. Now I was surprised they did go for it and if they are worried about not being able to pin the the Giants take a penalty.
A few things about the Pats D. 1) They have a hard time with big physical WRs. That was the case in the Chargers game and it showed. 2) Their LBers are getting old. Their LBers took a pounding at times from the Giants run game. I would not be surprised if some of that group is gone next year. I think is in part is why the Pats did not go to a more fast pace on O to rest the D. When the Pats worked at a fast/no huddle type pace it gave the Giants biiger problems. 3) They seemed rattled both on O and D. At times they seemed like they were pressing.
The Giants Defense did a great job. If they were not able to get pressure with that front 4 it is a different game. Both side of the ball played veyr physical. Par tof that game plan had to be to just beatup on the Pats. Both sides of the ball came up with big plays when they needed it. If the defense plays at any type of lower level they or if the offense plays at any less of a level then the Pats win.
Another interesting things for me is Shokey not on the sideline with his teammates. Instead he is up in a booth drinking. The Pats almost not coming out onto the field for the final play adn their coach just going in and not even watching it.
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Post by wingt74 on Feb 4, 2008 7:07:26 GMT -6
Great Defense Good offense 50% chance at a Championshiop
Good Defense Great Offense 25% at a Championship
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Post by dacoachmo on Feb 4, 2008 7:13:49 GMT -6
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Post by coryell2009 on Feb 4, 2008 7:33:41 GMT -6
Any Offensive Coordinators want to pick up on the use/misuse of Moss. I understand that the shoirt game...but people who claim that Moss isn't a weapon in the short game.....I don't get it. That last drive went almost like clockwork. Kept Watson and the back in for pass protection and get the ball to the playmakers. I believe Moss had 4 catches on the last drive either that or 3 and two attempts. When you throw to Moss it makes it so much easier for Wes Welker. Also does anyone here remember Dante Stallworth? I believe he's one of the fastest men in the league....maybe shock people and hi/lo people with him and Welker. I'm wondering out loud guys have any of you ever coached a WR that was GUARANTEED double/triple coverage? How would you attack with a team of similar talents?
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Post by morris on Feb 4, 2008 7:39:35 GMT -6
I a little surprised they do not move Moss down inside more as a 2nd and 3rd WR to a side. It makes it tougher to get those types of coverage on him and allows him to be a threat to more of the filed. I also do not understand why he did not go up for that ball near the end. Moss can fly but he can also jump out of the building in addition to his how tall he is.
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Post by coachjoe3 on Feb 4, 2008 7:51:08 GMT -6
2) Their LBers are getting old. I agree. I like him, but I was kind of surprised Bruschi came back after his stroke in 2005. I'd be interested to see what positions they pick pick first in the draft.
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Post by tye2021 on Feb 4, 2008 8:53:26 GMT -6
If I were the OC..... run the ball more. Bring in the extra blockers and become physical. If you have even a little success, you can now slow down the rush and use P/A passing. The Giants LBers bit on a couple of P/A plays during the game. Had they made the run an actual threat, they might have given their QB more time and could have had more success down field.
Early they had success with screens and quick passing. Maybe they should have done a little more of that as well.
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Post by coryell2009 on Feb 4, 2008 9:00:45 GMT -6
I a little surprised they do not move Moss down inside more as a 2nd and 3rd WR to a side. It makes it tougher to get those types of coverage on him and allows him to be a threat to more of the filed. I also do not understand why he did not go up for that ball near the end. Moss can fly but he can also jump out of the building in addition to his how tall he is. Maybe because he couldn't? Are you talkinbg about the 1st Hail Mary at the end of the game? There are times I would like people to run full speed and stop on a dime and leap in the air....let me know how your knee feels. When Moss did those leaps in Minn they were underthrown balls that he had time to slow up and leap for... Anyway I do agree with him being the 2nd or 3rd WR to a side. I remember in some San Fran videos of them moving Rice in the backfield. Overall I think that the Pats OC underutilized the talent he had. I love Welker he's the perfect slot/screen guy. I think they should have taken more shots to Dante downfield...I doubt the Giants Db's can hang with them. Personally, I hate games like this were one sides coaches there butts off and the other....just didn't execute. I think this is a game were if they plaed 10 times it would be 7-3 Patriots. So many mistakes by the Pats. Oh well. Let this be a reminder to OC's out there about protection and using what you have.
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Post by thunder17 on Feb 4, 2008 9:27:39 GMT -6
The hit by Tuck ( i think it was Tuck) on second and ten during New Englands last series was awesome. Brady took a beating early and he was clearly rattled. Lots of hurried balls even when he wasn't pressured and terrible throws.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 4, 2008 10:13:09 GMT -6
enjoy how we all have the exact formula for what it takes to win a championship. how one can easily quantify the exact cause for a championship and how that one factor alone is the difference in winning or losing. surely someone will write a book detailing the exact method upon which one team can develop this one facet of their program and begin winning championships...
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Post by brophy on Feb 4, 2008 10:22:21 GMT -6
If you were the Pats O/C, what would you have done differently? start cutting Umenyora,Tuck, and Robbins. The screens were awesome....the tempo the Pats were running had the Giants cramping in the 3rd.... More Maroney?
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 4, 2008 10:42:54 GMT -6
Another interesting things for me is Shokey not on the sideline with his teammates. Instead he is up in a booth drinking. The Pats almost not coming out onto the field for the final play adn their coach just going in and not even watching it. Shockey's injury is his leg, i doubt it would be a good idea to be on his feet for 4 hours, or hanging over cruches. I wouldn't have expected him to be on the sideline.
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 4, 2008 11:02:26 GMT -6
enjoy how we all have the exact formula for what it takes to win a championship. how one can easily quantify the exact cause for a championship and how that one factor alone is the difference in winning or losing. surely someone will write a book detailing the exact method upon which one team can develop this one facet of their program and begin winning championships... I AGREE 100%
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 4, 2008 11:47:04 GMT -6
enjoy how we all have the exact formula for what it takes to win a championship. how one can easily quantify the exact cause for a championship and how that one factor alone is the difference in winning or losing. surely someone will write a book detailing the exact method upon which one team can develop this one facet of their program and begin winning championships... What I find amazing (and dcohio alluded to this) is that almost to a person, those making the armchair comments would be mortified if they had a microphone up in the stands at their games and could hear what mom and pop were saying about them....
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 4, 2008 12:37:27 GMT -6
Patriots entire team is designed around allowing Tom Brady to win the game... So the teams that can get to Brady without having to leave DB's 1on1 with Welker & Moss give them fits... That's why the Giants almost beat them in Week 17 too... The Giants are designed perfectly to stop the Patriots by putting pressure on Tom Brady.
The only thing I can say as far as a "formula" for winning a championship...
Get the breaks Play well on BOTH sides of the Ball Play well on Special Teams BELIEVE IN EACH OTHER...
I think that getting rid of Tiki was probably the biggest contribution to the Giants winning the Super Bowl (Maybe Shockey too, but I've heard he is better now)... EVERYONE who was interviewed after the game, or commented on their thoughts of the game mentioned that EVERYONE on the Giants team BELIEVED in Eli from the get-go.
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Post by brophy on Feb 4, 2008 12:40:26 GMT -6
Patriots entire team is designed around allowing Tom Brady to win the game... EVERYONE on the Giants team BELIEVED in Eli from the get-go. so would the reverse be true? Had the Patriots got more pressure on young Eli, would they have afforded them a greater chance to win the game?
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 4, 2008 13:05:17 GMT -6
Patriots entire team is designed around allowing Tom Brady to win the game... EVERYONE on the Giants team BELIEVED in Eli from the get-go. so would the reverse be true? Had the Patriots got more pressure on young Eli, would they have afforded them a greater chance to win the game? I would say that yesterday, Eli Manning handled the pressure better than Tom Brady... Brady missed a few open guys when he wasn't getting hit because he was getting pounded all game long and was thinking about it. The Giants did a good job of protecting Manning for the most part, but even when they got to him (I think everyone knows what play I'm talking about), Eli was composed enough to be "better" than the Patriots defense yesterday... The Giants Defense gave Eli and the offense the opportunity to Win the game for them... And the offense stepped up and did it. So yes... IF the Patriots defense would have played better than the Giants offense, then they would have had a better chance to win... But at the same time, if the Patriots offense had played better than the Giants Defense, then they would have had a better chance to win as well... Double edged sword
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Post by theguru on Feb 4, 2008 13:08:09 GMT -6
for all of this If I were O/C I would have done this or that. don't you guys think an NFL O/C tried these things. The Giants were basically getting pressure with the front 4, the patriots ran screens and the LBs were eating up, they tried to run and the LBs were eating up. The Giants whole defense DL, lB, DB all played well. they limited the opportunities for the partiots to make big plays.
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 4, 2008 13:30:56 GMT -6
And my man Corey Webster locked down Randy Moss with the exception of slipping in the red zone once...
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Post by thunder17 on Feb 4, 2008 13:51:51 GMT -6
The difference is that the Giants put pressure on Brady up the middle and hard off of the edge. He didn't have much of a chance. He was getting pounded from every direction. Should they have ran the ball more? 14 rushes from Maroney and 16 total for the team. As brophy said earlier the Giants were cramping in the 3rd quarter, pound it at them and see what happens. Both QB's did have great drives at the end of the game.
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ram7gm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 133
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Post by ram7gm on Feb 4, 2008 14:04:36 GMT -6
Have multiple players ever shared the SB MVP award? Because I think the entire NY d-line should have gotten that... they were incredible, and not just against the pass which they're kind of known for. They seemed to be making plays all over the field... more than the LBs even!
Spagnulo did a great job but that was some INCREDIBLE execution!
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 4, 2008 14:41:43 GMT -6
ram--the problem is that now the SB MVP award is "sponsored" by Cadillac. It is awfully hard to split an SUV 4 ways.
I agree, if it was "in name only", then the award most likely would have been named. However, if you were FORCED to give it to one person, then it would be hard to argue against Manning's 4th quarter performance.
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