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Post by jhanawa on Jan 1, 2006 12:37:29 GMT -6
How do you guys shift from one formation to another? In the huddle, we call shift, then the formation desired, then play, cadence. Shift tells our players to lineup in the wishbone/2te's and shift to the formation called, say; Trips Rt, Zack, 22 Zone. How I send the play in is "shift" and then whatever wristband number I want. I like doing this to get a defense lined up in a run stopping set and then jump into a one back set. We also use "flip", which means the Y and R line up in false alignments and flip sides, the X and Z step up and back accordingly. We would then run whatever motion/play was called, say: flip, duece Lt, Jet, 68 Quick Sweep. I've seen no huddle spread teams shift,flip and motion all over the place, how do you communicate it, with code words or automatics for certain plays?
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Post by toprowguy on Jan 1, 2006 12:46:18 GMT -6
I'm glad you asked this question because I had the same question. I saw Rutgers do it against Ariz. St. and it seemed to really get them out of position.
I like the way you do it by just saying shift, which means start in a certain formation but then go to the formation that is called .
I think that is the way we will do it.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 1, 2006 12:47:21 GMT -6
We used two shifts this year. We stole the terms from the wing-t guys.
JUMP TO: X,Y,Z,T,F lined up anywhere they wanted (it did not even have to be a real formation) then on "GO" they all sprinted to the actual formation. Huddle Call: Jump to Trips right (example)
Run to: We always lined up in Right I and than sprinted to the formation call: Example would be "Run to Trips Right--we line up in Right I then sprint to trips.
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 1, 2006 13:05:24 GMT -6
I was at the Rutgers ASU game, I'm still not sure if Rutgers was that good or ASU that bad. Rutgers gave ASU fits with their trips bunch package, they ran toss to it several times before ASU could figure out that they needed to adjust. The ASU kid had a lot of yards passing and 4 tds but man he had people wide open all night long and stood back there for 4-7 seconds, he really should have had a lot more.
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Post by cc on Jan 1, 2006 15:04:23 GMT -6
I thinking shifting can be very valuable to an offense and frustrating for a D.
However, you have to be careful of tendencies or you lose your advantage. If you always start in the same set to shift then its a bit obvious. Its harder to defend a team that has multiple look shifts.
I would call one set then shift to another. Ie (Pro Shift to Trips .... )
If you let players line up whenever then you are not really disguising.
Again, as a DC what would give me fits is a team that shifts from one look (that they use often) to another and that they can do this with multiple looks in the same game and any game...
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 1, 2006 21:05:46 GMT -6
And then the QB is armed with a check with me. If they adjust to the new shift run a certain play, if they do not adjust run ther other one.
The best one we used was to shift into our unbalanced power I set. Our LG was our #2 center so before the OL got into thier stances everyone bumped over. The QB and backfield stood where they were. Now the "LG" was over the ball and snapped it. Of course we had to wait until we were all set , but we practiced it enough to where when we first sprung it in a game it really caught the other team off guard.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 1, 2006 21:15:32 GMT -6
we call the "moving" term before the formation. the moving term affects certain players so they will line up according to that rule (usually opposite the formation). all other players line up in the formation called. - Walk = TE. align opposite of call.
- Shift = H-back. if shifting to a wing or slot position, start in backfield. if shifting to backfield align next to TE
- Tango = both TE & H. same as walk to TE & same as Shift to H-back
have others, but these are the main ones. example: "Walk R". will look like Pro I Left....shifting to Pro I Right. all players line up in the R formation except for TE. he will align to the left. shifts over.
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Post by sls on Jan 1, 2006 22:39:59 GMT -6
we let our HB, Fb, and Z align where ever they wanted and then shifted into the called formation. we saw a lot of man coverage. It was great to see the defense running aroound like mad. It also made breakdown more difficult. After the Chinese fire drill the QB looked for uncovered to throw to or leverage to run Bubble. I think it worked really well for us.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 1, 2006 22:42:26 GMT -6
in our "bump" we have that. bump rule just means line up in something close to what we have in the playbook...the move to formation called.
some weeks we put "bump rules" in....meaning, every time we bump we will start in a given "formation" then shift to the call
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Post by DLine06 on Jan 1, 2006 23:02:53 GMT -6
we call the "moving" term before the formation. the moving term affects certain players so they will line up according to that rule (usually opposite the formation). all other players line up in the formation called. - Walk = TE. align opposite of call.
- Shift = H-back. if shifting to a wing or slot position, start in backfield. if shifting to backfield align next to TE
- Tango = both TE & H. same as walk to TE & same as Shift to H-back
have others, but these are the main ones. example: "Walk R". will look like Pro I Left....shifting to Pro I Right. all players line up in the R formation except for TE. he will align to the left. shifts over. Same thing with my high school. They'll run Ricky Walk Power 4. Line up in Ricky, TE changes to go to left side. Then we run Power 4.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 1, 2006 23:08:20 GMT -6
that's alot like ours, you're right, dline
originally we did it "R Walk" which meant everyone lined up in R then the TE shifted left.....BUT...this actually made the strength left (or L) and can get confusing for making spur of the moment decisions. that is when we decided to change to "Walk R"....so we know that the strength of the play at the snap will be right......
way back in the day i was at a school that said it similarly...."fly to pro" or "bump to wide"
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Post by lochness on Jan 2, 2006 5:45:08 GMT -6
We started pretty heavily experimenting with stemming and shifting offensively this season. It was somewhat benificial, but we were really just tinkering. It is only valuable if you can get a really good match-up out of it. For example, we played against a 46 Bear team that lived in "Man Free" coverage. They would walk both CB's over onto our X and Z receivers if we put them on the same side in a 2-RB formation. So, we had a package where we'd put two weaker receivers out there and start in an "I". We'd then have our 2 best receivers lined up at FB and TE respectively. On the shift, they flanked out to the opposite side (and sometimes we'd put the TB out there too) isolating themselves away from the two best pass defenders on the team. Often we had a SS and a LB covering these two guys. Because of their rules, there was nothing they could do to recover.
Anyway, here is our shift philosophy:
We will only shift OUT OF our more commonly used formations. In other words, if we don’t run “Straight T,” we are not shifting out of “Straight-T!” If the defense doesn’t believe that you may actually run a play out of your original set, you may as well just be huddling up twice, because they’ll be waiting for the shift. Also, if you always shift out of one certain look, they’ll again be waiting for the shift.
What we did was take two of our more basic formations and create terminology in the shifting game for them. So, it worked like this:
“ONE STEM”= Pro I Lt (or I7Lt in our system) “TWO STEM”=Pro I RT (or I8Rt in our system) “THREE STEM”=Wing Splitbacks Lt (or B5Lt in our system) “FOUR STEM”=Wing Splitbacks Rt (or B6Rt in our system)
This was easy for the kids to remember, because these are two fundamental formations in our system. Also, it is logical because in our system, we number holes using “odds left and evens right” philosophy, so they know that “one” and “two” are both pro-I sets, and that since “one” is an odd number, it is to the left and “two” is an even number so it is to the right. Each position need only know how the shift pertains to them.
So now, from there, we can call a play with a wholesale shift like this: “3 Stem, N8Rt-36 Belly” and everyone knows their assignments.
We also had special shifts, most of which were designed to quickly change strength or play games with the TE. These shifts had special names:
“TRADE”= TE trade from left to right or vice-versa.
“FLOP”= TE lines up at FB and the FB lines up at the TE position OPPOSITE of the called formation. On shift, the FB shifts into the backfield, and the TE shifts into the called formation. It’s a quick way to change strength without having a TE cross the formation
“TEX”=WB lines up on the same side as the TE to start, with the Z on the opposite side as the WR on the LOS. On shift, the WB goes in motion to the weak side, stops, and sets on the LOS in the opposite TE slot. The Z backs off the LOS to make it a legal formation. Nice way to get into a double TE look quickly, and the defense never knows if he is going to stop and set as the second TE or if he is going to continue in motion, so they can’t adjust too early.
We then may have one shift specially designed for each opponent, depending on how we have determined we may take advantage of them. For example, the shift I described above that we used against the 46 Bear team we could simply call “Cougar Rt” or “Cougar Lt” with “Cougar” being the mascot of our opponent.
That’s pretty much it. It took a good deal of practice time and concentration this season, so it wasn’t something we really used frequently. But, we may have used it on 20% of our snaps. This season, I plan on using it much more now that it is not a new concept to the kids.
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Post by los on Jan 2, 2006 8:59:19 GMT -6
Huey and some of you other guys that posted, tell us some things you'd be looking for after each shift. Do you change your shifts for each game by film study? As one who's never used shift's (only motion) I'm curious if its worth it or can actually confuse your own team more at the high school level? As in too many things for the QB and coaches to look at in 25 secs. or less!
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Post by lochness on Jan 2, 2006 9:54:31 GMT -6
Coach,
First and foremost, you can create match-ups that the other team doesn’t like. For example, if our opponent runs a 43 defense and their philosophy is to put a big run stopper at the 3 technique and a rush / disruptor type guy at the 1 technique (plus their stud LB at SAM), a simple TE trade or flop of strength will completely put them at a disadvantage in the run game. Also, the example I gave earlier about gaining match-up advantages in your opponent’s coverage packages is legit. These are the types of things you look for on film and plan for.
Second, if the defense is spending a great deal of time and effort on deciphering and preparing for your shift game, that is time taken away from their efforts to practice against and stop your base plays. Any time you can do this, it is always good.
Third, you can certainly create a great deal of defensive confusion and possibly outflank them at the same time if they do not adjust properly. We play all kinds of games with our shifts. You always have to note what their adjustments (or lack of adjustments) are to your shifts. This is sometimes hard to predict, but if you have a guy upstairs designated to watch this, then you have a shot at coming up with a way to exploit them. If you catch them trying to flip their whole defense, there is a way to hurt them there too. If you’re shifting a lot and the defense is becoming passive when you first get up to the ball (waiting for the shift to happen), snap the ball on touch or first sound. This will give you a quickness advantage.
Half of your shifting is done due to what you’ve picked up on film. The other half is to create confusion and to make mental “game time” notes of their reactions so that you can exploit those variables that you otherwise could not have predicted.
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Post by los on Jan 2, 2006 10:21:27 GMT -6
Good answer Loch!
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 2, 2006 12:22:47 GMT -6
We will run plays out of the wishbone (primarly power and ct trey) so the defense must be prepared to stop it. When we shift into say trips, it makes their secondary change coverage and the LB's realign. When we combine this with a play that has motion, we can make them change again in the same play. What I look for is the defense to get confused and leave an opening that we can exploit. If they are a shade team that switches strong/weak, we can flip the TE to their weaker side, this creates coverage problems as well as issues up front. The key to this is to get the play into the huddle quickly so that we have time to move around.
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Post by optioncoach on Jan 2, 2006 12:35:06 GMT -6
This is a good discussion...we're looking at doing some shifting as well. I think we'll do it like jhanawa described...except we'll line up in the straight T. This will work well for us since we'll be running more plays with an offset TB in addition to our regular I-formation. We also realize that we will have to be able to run some of our offense from first formation we line up in, otherwise the defense will never respect our first formation.
As we have thought this through, we feel it will be more advantageous against certain defenses, and not as good against others. If a team plays with a strong side and weakside defenders, plays alot of man coverage, or declares a strength in the secondary, jumping into various formations should cause the defense some concerns. For us, we hope it will also create confusion when it comes to option responsibilities. Instead of coming out in Twins Right and having the defense thinking "I've got QB" they have to be worried about whether we're going to shift or not, where to go when we do shift, and what responsibilties they have to boot.
To those that have done this: how do you handle the time issue? I've watched our films and many times I'm signaling the play in to our QB right as they are winding the play clock. From their it takes us 10 seconds to get to the line. What should our goals be in terms of number of seconds on the play clock in order to shift, call the cadence, use motion, and audible if need be? In addition, are there any special ways you practice this? Thanks in advance.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 2, 2006 13:18:00 GMT -6
we like to shift vs these types of teams:
50 front teams that are heavy with Strongside in the rush teams that use alot of DL twists, slants, stunts heavy blitz teams any team where there is a distinct difference in ability between the weak side & strong side
things we like to do:
simply shift 1 or 2 players shift 1 or 2 players - set - then motion. shift from 2-back to 1-back sets & vice-versa set formation strength to one side, then flip. then motion back to the "original" strong side to create receiver strength to that side
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 2, 2006 15:38:16 GMT -6
option coach, To speed up plays into the huddle, you can use a grease board and wristbands, for example, the first two digits is the play number on the QB's wristband, the second two digits are dummy numbers, or have backup QB's/asst coaches with another board. Or just send it in with a kid who RUNS to the huddle, or yell it if QB is close. I think shifting/flipping is particuliarly nasty when you run the option because it can screw up option responsibilty on the defense real easy.
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