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Post by coachvann on May 15, 2015 18:43:18 GMT -6
In Florida the month of May is used for spring football...it's something that is pretty awesome down here! Well, we are a small 2A school and we share many of our athletes. This was my first full year here and when I was hired I did share with the AD that I require our VARSITY kids to play spring football...I don't want any kid who says-"I'll just come out in the fall" or "I'll just come out when summer workouts start". I have made it clear that we will not play that game because there was always a lack of commitment and I want to see what kid I can count on in the spring and plus it starts off our summer workouts better.
My AD called me in the office and questioned this policy and feels like I am cutting my own legs from underneath me...by the way-we have had this conversation more than once because he feels that the "AAU basketball" kid and some baseball players who are stud athletes but lazy or not committal will not benefit from this policy.
I told him they won't benefit in football from this policy-you are correct by saying that; but probably kids we don't need because it will hurt us in the long run. He wants me to change policy and let them come in the fall if they choose to.
Guys, what are your thoughts if this was you?
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Post by coachphillip on May 15, 2015 19:24:41 GMT -6
Maybe he's just looking out for you and doesn't want you to have to go your first few seasons with a lesser hand when it comes to talent. Don't know the guy. I just don't want to snap judgement and think he's being over assertive.
If you feel like you're right, is there a way that you could amend the policy so that they have to "make up the work they missed"? Make it so grueling that they won't want to come out if that's the only way?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 19:35:57 GMT -6
In Florida the month of May is used for spring football...it's something that is pretty awesome down here! Well, we are a small 2A school and we share many of our athletes. This was my first full year here and when I was hired I did share with the AD that I require our VARSITY kids to play spring football...I don't want any kid who says-"I'll just come out in the fall" or "I'll just come out when summer workouts start". I have made it clear that we will not play that game because there was always a lack of commitment and I want to see what kid I can count on in the spring and plus it starts off our summer workouts better.
My AD called me in the office and questioned this policy and feels like I am cutting my own legs from underneath me...by the way-we have had this conversation more than once because he feels that the "AAU basketball" kid and some baseball players who are stud athletes but lazy or not committal will not benefit from this policy.
I told him they won't benefit in football from this policy-you are correct by saying that; but probably kids we don't need because it will hurt us in the long run. He wants me to change policy and let them come in the fall if they choose to.
Guys, what are your thoughts if this was you? if you have to ask, change the policy. AAU basketball kids who are not their because basketball is first on their priority are good athletes and depending which ones you get, they could be signifigant additions in the fall. |
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Post by coachklee on May 15, 2015 19:55:31 GMT -6
This is one reason that not having spring football in Michigan is a good thing! Kids are kids & need some time off...if they are already committed to something else, especially if it is the school associated baseball team they deserve some sort of exemption...not a free pass, because if someone else gets better or equal to them because they are at spring ball, they deserve the spot. However, do you really need year round commitment aside from developing their athletic ability through strength/speed/agility training?
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Post by groundchuck on May 15, 2015 20:36:28 GMT -6
I've learned to TRY and not cut my nose off to spite my face.
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Post by gators1422 on May 15, 2015 20:51:57 GMT -6
We are a small school in Fla also, there is no way they are playing in the fall if they don't play in the spring. If you don't demand a commitment from the kids you won't get it on Friday night. Run the program the way you see fit. I would rather play with kids who are fully bought in than kids who are just there because it was convenient. We share kids with every sport it is just how it is.
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Post by fantom on May 15, 2015 21:38:06 GMT -6
In Florida the month of May is used for spring football...it's something that is pretty awesome down here! Well, we are a small 2A school and we share many of our athletes. This was my first full year here and when I was hired I did share with the AD that I require our VARSITY kids to play spring football...I don't want any kid who says-"I'll just come out in the fall" or "I'll just come out when summer workouts start". I have made it clear that we will not play that game because there was always a lack of commitment and I want to see what kid I can count on in the spring and plus it starts off our summer workouts better.
My AD called me in the office and questioned this policy and feels like I am cutting my own legs from underneath me...by the way-we have had this conversation more than once because he feels that the "AAU basketball" kid and some baseball players who are stud athletes but lazy or not committal will not benefit from this policy.
I told him they won't benefit in football from this policy-you are correct by saying that; but probably kids we don't need because it will hurt us in the long run. He wants me to change policy and let them come in the fall if they choose to.
Guys, what are your thoughts if this was you? I think that he's trying to help you and I think he's right. Football isn't the top priority with some kids but some of those kids will play their a$$es off in-season and can help you. |
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smcauliffe54
Sophomore Member
Wisconsin 2018 Division 4 State Champions 14-0
Posts: 188 
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Post by smcauliffe54 on May 16, 2015 4:04:04 GMT -6
In wi you can't make off season stuff a requirement. you can say that if you are in the weightroom or doing 7on7's you will have a better chance at starting over another kid. but you can't have any wordage that makes a kid think if he doesnt come in for lifting or spring ball that it will effect his playing time.
have had a couple of seasoned coaches fired because of emails that had requirement on there for offseason stuff. the coaches said it wasn't really required but that if they didn't put that in the email the kids wouldn't come.
if it's not against your state's rules to make things a requirement then i would make it a requirement for kids that aren't doing anything in the spring.
our rule is if you are not in a sport you should be in the weightroom. we give out t-shirts for kids that are dedicated to either weightroom or playing a sport (which promotes competition) year round.
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Post by realdawg on May 16, 2015 4:28:48 GMT -6
Around here AAU basketball is on the weekends. Spring practice is not. Dont see why you cant do both?  |
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Post by coachvann on May 16, 2015 5:30:42 GMT -6
Great advice...I'm trying to figure out if he is wanting to do what's best or if he is holding out for 2 kids that can help us but they have not jumped in.
It is a tough place bc I've always had that rule at a smaller school and we built from there.
I understand about other commitments and I tell the kids we work around each schedule in the spring. Plus our spring is easy...hardly no conditioning! We use that to set up our summer program.
We do have verbage in our association not to mandate summer but we can mandate spring
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Post by coachjm on May 16, 2015 5:49:06 GMT -6
First I would ask by district and state association policy can it be made mandatory? If it can't then it shouldn't be, if it can well then it is up to you!
We have NOTHING mandatory until the first day of practice, this is with intention, I want my best hard working players on the field just like everyone else. I also want to see who my most committed, dedicated kids are in the offseason. By have optional workouts that are optional (we give two incentives) I get to learn who our leaders are, the kids who are most competitive get a leg up in their job to start, and kids who don't make the same commitment level are either good enough that they are gonna beat out the other kids in the fall and help our team be better or are gonna get beat out by another kid and learn a valuable lesson of how dedicated they need to be.
If it were me, I would create some rewards for all kids with perfect attendance for spring ball and really emphasize this attendance award (something they all want) and I bet you will have pretty good commitment.
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Post by newhope on May 16, 2015 7:23:40 GMT -6
Nobody says you have to play them if they aren't there in the spring. The hard and fast rule about not letting them come out is going to probably bite you in the butt. I think the AD is looking out for you. He could have said "change that". He didn't. He suggested you might want to change it. I agree with others--use incentives for those who show.
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Post by wingtol on May 16, 2015 7:33:58 GMT -6
First off having coached at small schools for awhile be careful because that roster can get real small real quick on you, we say we'll take any swinging d**k we can get on the field!
Are all your spring sports done during spring football? If not cant see how you can make it mandatory if a kid is in season with another sport.
Also we tend to forget most of the time none of our players, wether you think it or not, take the game as serious as we do. Doesn't mean they won't come out and bust their asses when the time comes so sometimes in the offseason you have to work around stuff epically at small schools. Like I said don't push kids away in small schools, it will come back to haunt you real quick.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 8:27:31 GMT -6
Their playing time isn't mandatory either. Offseason workouts in the nfl are not mandatory, but they "are" if you want to keep your job. Same logic applies to not being able to make it mandatory workout via state rules.
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Post by silkyice on May 16, 2015 9:22:39 GMT -6
Make it a requirement, but have rules in place if they miss. Miss spring training, one game suspension. It makes spring training mean something, but you also don't put yourself in a bind.
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Post by joker31 on May 16, 2015 9:51:51 GMT -6
I think what the AD is doing is right. While we too have spring football, football is not a spring sport... It is a fall sport. If there is conflict with an in-season sport, they will go to that sport but obviously we ask them to squeeze in practice when possible.
Once fall hits, we become the priority.
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Post by spos21ram on May 16, 2015 10:16:56 GMT -6
With school baseball going on, would you penalize them for not being at spring practice? I'm also a baseball coach, and I'd be all for the baseball guys going to spring football workouts if it didn't conflict with what we are doing. I doubt any football coach would be ok with a football player also playing fall baseball if schools had fall baseball practice.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by spos21ram on May 16, 2015 10:18:34 GMT -6
Make it a requirement, but have rules in place if they miss. Miss spring training, one game suspension. It makes spring training mean something, but you also don't put yourself in a bind. Unless you're a private school that can do whatever you want, I don't think many schools can suspend someone for a game in the fall when spring football isn't even a sport. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards |
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Post by freezeoption on May 16, 2015 11:17:47 GMT -6
u dont have to play them, and make life tough in practice, but dont make your life hell dealing with this, u may need them down the road, we are a small school, no spring ball, we coop, if i didn't let kids come out cause they were not in off season weights or summer weights and camp i probably will not have a team, or very big team, we will weed through the crap in the first 3 days of the season and see if they can still handle it
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Post by silkyice on May 16, 2015 11:31:03 GMT -6
Make it a requirement, but have rules in place if they miss. Miss spring training, one game suspension. It makes spring training mean something, but you also don't put yourself in a bind. Unless you're a private school that can do whatever you want, I don't think many schools can suspend someone for a game in the fall when spring football isn't even a sport. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards Taught public and private and no one has questioned that rule. But that is in Alabama. But in the OP, he wasn't going to let them play at all if they missed spring, so I think my post is valid. |
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Post by fantom on May 16, 2015 13:01:33 GMT -6
Unless you're a private school that can do whatever you want, I don't think many schools can suspend someone for a game in the fall when spring football isn't even a sport. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards Taught public and private and no one has questioned that rule. But that is in Alabama. But in the OP, he wasn't going to let them play at all if they missed spring, so I think my post is valid. I don't agree with suspending them but we don't have padded spring ball here so it doesn't natter. I think that Spos, who's in Rhode Island, that in the south Spring Football IS a sport. I do wonder, like him, if you consider kids who play spring sports to be missing spring practice. |
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Post by wolverine55 on May 16, 2015 13:11:32 GMT -6
There's no way I wouldn't let kids come out if the reason they aren't available for spring football or some summer workouts is other sports. I like the fact that we have many multi-sport athletes in our program right now. Now, if a kid isn't involved in any other sports and still skips spring football, sure I think you're more than justified in not wanting that type of kid on the team.
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Post by spos21ram on May 16, 2015 13:18:11 GMT -6
Correct no spring football here, but if there was I would definitely expect every player that wasn't involved in a spring sport to be there. However, if they don't show, we probably wouldn't be able to suspend them come fall but that doesn't mean we can't start them at the bottom of the depth chart on day 1 and they have to earn their starting job.
Regarding the OPs policy, I'd like to know about spring sports players.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by silkyice on May 16, 2015 14:25:55 GMT -6
Taught public and private and no one has questioned that rule. But that is in Alabama. But in the OP, he wasn't going to let them play at all if they missed spring, so I think my post is valid. I don't agree with suspending them but we don't have padded spring ball here so it doesn't natter. I think that Spos, who's in Rhode Island, that in the south Spring Football IS a sport. I do wonder, like him, if you consider kids who play spring sports to be missing spring practice. If they are in another school sport they are certainly excused. If they have a post baseball game or an AAU bball game or something like that, them I can let them go early to make the game. But not going to excuse them to miss practice for a non-school practice. Good news is post baseball doesn't start until June and AAU practice is after our practice. We have no conflicts unless our baseball team makes state finals. Those kids are certainly excused. As a matter of fact we call of practice and go watch the state championship games. That has happened twice in the last four years. |
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Post by coach2013 on May 16, 2015 15:35:09 GMT -6
In Florida the month of May is used for spring football...it's something that is pretty awesome down here! Well, we are a small 2A school and we share many of our athletes. This was my first full year here and when I was hired I did share with the AD that I require our VARSITY kids to play spring football...I don't want any kid who says-"I'll just come out in the fall" or "I'll just come out when summer workouts start". I have made it clear that we will not play that game because there was always a lack of commitment and I want to see what kid I can count on in the spring and plus it starts off our summer workouts better.
My AD called me in the office and questioned this policy and feels like I am cutting my own legs from underneath me...by the way-we have had this conversation more than once because he feels that the "AAU basketball" kid and some baseball players who are stud athletes but lazy or not committal will not benefit from this policy.
I told him they won't benefit in football from this policy-you are correct by saying that; but probably kids we don't need because it will hurt us in the long run. He wants me to change policy and let them come in the fall if they choose to.
Guys, what are your thoughts if this was you? Change that policy right now. small school, let the kids come out in August.
with small schools numbers, athletes....and all of their friends....are what you need. Policies that hurt you are bad policies.
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Post by jlenwood on May 16, 2015 18:50:07 GMT -6
I see this type of post several times a year it seems, so let me ask a question...what if the guy that comes out in the fall is just simply better than your "committed" player who has been there for the spring stuff?
I see twitter feeds all the time from coaches going on about how "This Big 10 or SEC coach only recruits multi sport athletes!!", and then we see guys turn around and demand our players only can be "committed" to football. Just seems a little wrong to me. How about this, be happy with what you get in the spring, and when the fall comes around play your best.
I realize that all things being equal, the guy who has been there all year round will be your starter, but I just see this as another barrier to kids playing football.
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Post by coachorm on May 16, 2015 21:31:15 GMT -6
We have the same rule where if you don't come out in spring and stick with the team you don't play in the fall. We also look at each situation individually. For instance a kid that has to miss spring practices or scrimmage because he is playing baseball or another sport for the school in the spring and it is his still going on... that kid is excused. The kid playing AAU basketball... he is not. AAU basketball is not a school sport. The only people that play in the fall but aren't there in the spring are incoming freshmen because they aren't in the same building already.
Personally I would tell the AD you are willing to work with kids missing cause of sports played for a school team, but not for kids that are missing to do non-school teams. If he forces you to allow AAU kids to miss and still play then I would say its time to start looking for a new job and head out when you find one.
AD can be helpful but he has to have your back as long as you are being reasonable. If he doesn't or the administration at the school doesn't the kids and parents will figure it out quick and your coaching life will suck.
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Post by fantom on May 16, 2015 22:01:21 GMT -6
A hypothetical: The basketball team has a 6'2" 220 lb. power forward, a junior. He always fekt that he needed to dedicate himself to basketball so he didn't play football and didn't play in the spring. Suddenly, he gets a bug up his a$$ about playing football-maybe he perused the rosters of D.1 basketball teams- and wants to play football. Do you let him come out?
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Post by coach2013 on May 17, 2015 3:31:03 GMT -6
I cant speak for other coaches but I can tell you that in my experience, the schools very best three sport athletes are rarely ever in the top ten in our off season attendance but come August, they are great leaders, great competitors and valuable two way starters.
Similarly, some of our most dedicated, top attendance guys are merely JV players because they are simply not big enough, strong enough or fast enough to start on varsity. We take care of them in many ways but we aren't about to hand them the keys to the kingdom just because they lift weights instead of playing basketball and baseball. Maybe they don't play basketball or baseball in the first place because they are horrible at it.
These dedicated kids help themselves tremendously by attending our programming, eventually they become relevant. It just takes time. |
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Post by smfreeman on May 17, 2015 6:41:15 GMT -6
I see this type of post several times a year it seems, so let me ask a question...what if the guy that comes out in the fall is just simply better than your "committed" player who has been there for the spring stuff? I see twitter feeds all the time from coaches going on about how "This Big 10 or SEC coach only recruits multi sport athletes!!", and then we see guys turn around and demand our players only can be "committed" to football. Just seems a little wrong to me. How about this, be happy with what you get in the spring, and when the fall comes around play your best. I realize that all things being equal, the guy who has been there all year round will be your starter, but I just see this as another barrier to kids playing football. Coach I have actually been told by college coaches that they don't want the kids who are maxed out talent wise because they specialized there whole life... They are looking for that kid completing in everything. |
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