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Post by spartancoach on Jul 13, 2007 7:09:08 GMT -6
How about this for a dilemma? I was on top of the box, and our opponent's spotters were in the box directly below me. I could hear their play calls. What would you do?
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Post by phantom on Jul 13, 2007 7:21:13 GMT -6
Tell them the plays.Anything that you do in public is fair game.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jul 13, 2007 7:44:52 GMT -6
That's the other teams fault. If you think it can help you win, do it. It's not like you're sneaking around, hiding in the shadows or something.
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Post by dacoachmo on Jul 13, 2007 8:44:56 GMT -6
their fault... of course you could use your COACH voice and call the play out and maybe they will get the hint that you can hear them... now we know why the NFL coaches cover their mouthes..haha...  |
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jul 13, 2007 8:59:10 GMT -6
I cannot see the delima, other than they were not very quick on the uptake. You were given a gift Coach and you KNOW it is rude to refuse a gift!!!
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Post by dubber on Jul 13, 2007 9:00:53 GMT -6
when I coached in college, I accidentally walked into the wrong spotters box......there before me was the entire playsheet for the opposing team...........temptation big time!!!!
Now, taking that would be unethical, but if you can hear the play (or steal the sign), do it.............as long as your not hacking into the opponents headset system
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Post by djwesp on Jul 13, 2007 12:37:06 GMT -6
The only dillema is talking softer when you call your defensive calls.
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Post by airman on Jul 13, 2007 12:50:30 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not?
It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue.
I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials.
read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler.
just my 2 cents.
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Post by coachmason2 on Jul 13, 2007 12:56:15 GMT -6
Public air space use it and tell them not to scream thier plays next time.
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Post by dubber on Jul 13, 2007 13:06:34 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not? It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue. I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials. read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler. just my 2 cents. I guess it really depends on the score of the game........ I'm obviously joking............................ I don't know, airman...........not saying you're right, but your comments cause me to think a little more about the ethical considerations of this situation..........I change my vote to undecided ...........unless we're down two scores |
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Post by airman on Jul 13, 2007 13:51:13 GMT -6
my dad was a man of God and he always told me do onto others as you would want done to you. now I would not want some one to steal my stuff. I believe want comes around, goes around and in the grand scheme of things people get back what they give.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 13, 2007 13:54:49 GMT -6
If he's talking that loud and giving you the plays, I think I'd have to accept. It would be the same thing if the offense always runs toss on first down. You're going to take advantage of it.
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Post by khalfie on Jul 13, 2007 16:20:07 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not? It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue. I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials. read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler. just my 2 cents. Airman... There's no doubt, I am a new fan of yours... However... in competitive endeavors, it is not my job to teach you how to do your job... If we were playing chess... I wouldn't tell you if you made a dumb move? If we were boxing... I wouldn't tell you to keep your left up... or not listen to your coach when he tells you to throw the jab more... If this were wrestling... I wouldn't let your arm go, because its in a very vulnerable position... Being a good samaritan is one thing.... Not taking advantage of a competitive edge... is criminal... that's what we spend all this time practicing for... an advantage. Rather it be on the field... Linemen giving it up with their stance... backs giving it away with their eyes... or coaches telling us in the play box... that's what we were scheming for ... the advantage... Got to say... I think you are dead wrong on this one! |
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Post by wildcat on Jul 13, 2007 16:37:49 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not? It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue. I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials. read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler. just my 2 cents. airman - If you were watching film of next week's opponents and you noticed that their left guard lined up deeper every time he was going to pull, would you call those coaches up and tell them? |
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wccoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 159
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Post by wccoach on Jul 13, 2007 16:46:59 GMT -6
Being able to hear the opponents call their plays is not stealing if you have not done something malicious in order to hear them. If the guy is loudly calling the plays form the box I would cal that a gift and not stealing. I have always accepted gifts with thanks. Just my opinion
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 13, 2007 18:05:58 GMT -6
To steal a line from Training Day... "I'm very comfortable"
I would take the gift no questions asked.
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Post by stackattack on Jul 13, 2007 18:15:54 GMT -6
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't trying. Love that quote! ;D |
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Post by spartancoach on Jul 13, 2007 19:45:03 GMT -6
Well, I fed the info to the HC, the HC told the opponent's HC during the first quarter, and the coaches below spoke softer.
Oh, yeah, we lost 24-21.
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Post by oguru on Jul 13, 2007 21:44:48 GMT -6
spartancoach, if I was your HCf and you told me I would yell it out every play,and I would ask you for it every play.
The OC at the college I coached at would literally YELL out the persaonnel groupings. One of the DC in our conference told me that they could very easily hear it and would sub accordingly.
The past four years the OC is int he box and I signaled the personnel in, they couldn't tell.
We took away their advanatage
If they are telling yout he play take it,and go with it. DO NOT GO TELLING THEIR HC,THATS JUST PLAIN STUPID,STUPID,STUPID
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Post by coachfite on Jul 13, 2007 22:05:25 GMT -6
To me, you would spend too much time trying to counter their plays instead of coaching football.
There would also be the assumption that every play that they called would be a good one.
I just see more negatives from this type of thing then positives.
Having had something like this happen before, all I had done was I brought in the closest school official and had him listen for a couple of plays and then the situation was resolved.
Mind you, I didn't make a big beef and didn't try and solve things quickly, but I just couldn't sit there and listen. If anything, it screwed up my flow of helping call the game.
Too me, not worth the effort. Though I would hold it against no one for taking advantage of the situation. Its your job as a coach to make sure your not being tapped.
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Post by airman on Jul 14, 2007 14:04:51 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not? It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue. I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials. read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler. just my 2 cents. airman - If you were watching film of next week's opponents and you noticed that their left guard lined up deeper every time he was going to pull, would you call those coaches up and tell them? that is totally different. they have provided me with the film to look at. it is one thing to pick a tendency up on film and another to hear the other team call plays. |
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Post by airman on Jul 14, 2007 14:12:07 GMT -6
to me any victory gained through this method is a hollow one. I would tell the guys to not talk so loud. it depends on what type of person you want to be known as. are you a man of honor or not? It is like when I played town baseball. we had a guy who just seemed able to steal signs. I found it worse knowing what pitch was coming then when I had no clue. I realize most people do not see this as stealing or such but it really is. so it taking time from your employer to go on line for personal things or taking home pens or other company materials. read in forbes one time that the top 500 compainies in america get about 19 hrs a week of actual work time. the rest is spent by chit chating with coworks, bathroom breaks and around the water cooler. just my 2 cents. Airman... There's no doubt, I am a new fan of yours... However... in competitive endeavors, it is not my job to teach you how to do your job... If we were playing chess... I wouldn't tell you if you made a dumb move? If we were boxing... I wouldn't tell you to keep your left up... or not listen to your coach when he tells you to throw the jab more... If this were wrestling... I wouldn't let your arm go, because its in a very vulnerable position... Being a good samaritan is one thing.... Not taking advantage of a competitive edge... is criminal... that's what we spend all this time practicing for... an advantage. Rather it be on the field... Linemen giving it up with their stance... backs giving it away with their eyes... or coaches telling us in the play box... that's what we were scheming for ... the advantage... Got to say... I think you are dead wrong on this one! I can see your point. I just disagree. if there are no ethics then any thing goes. at what point to do detrimine what is acceptable and not acceptable. you can take this to any thing you want in life. you can justify Enron scaming people, you can justify locking people up in cuba and not giving them a trial. you can justify shooting wounded on the battle field. I always find those who are willing to tolerate this behavior are the ones who complain the loudest when it does not go there way. Mike leach for example does not believe it is his job to slow his offense down. he thumped nebraska a few years ago by like 70 points and the nebraska staff was hot. he told them he would expect them to do the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. he understands what comes around goes around. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 14, 2007 15:35:11 GMT -6
"you play to win the game"
-Herm Edwards
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Post by coachmoore42 on Jul 14, 2007 16:05:17 GMT -6
"you play to win the game" -Tony Dungy Wasn't that Herman Edwards? |
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Post by sls on Jul 14, 2007 16:07:20 GMT -6
IF your DL figured out the OL calls and could be better prepared for the play, would you tell him not to listen.
I wouldn't, I would complement the the DL for playing smart!
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Post by wildcat on Jul 14, 2007 16:14:41 GMT -6
airman - If you were watching film of next week's opponents and you noticed that their left guard lined up deeper every time he was going to pull, would you call those coaches up and tell them? that is totally different. they have provided me with the film to look at. it is one thing to pick a tendency up on film and another to hear the other team call plays. II figured you would try that argument and I totally disagree with you. In my opinion, it is the exact same thing. You look for anything within the rules that can give you an advantage. Just like viewing players on a videotape, if the coaches on the sideline or up in the box are doing something to tip their hand, you are being foolish to not take advantage. Nothing unethical about that. |
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 14, 2007 16:40:16 GMT -6
I look at it this way. If the ref makes a call in your favor, and it was obviously wrong do you walk up to him and say "sir, that was the wrong call please give the other team the ball." Hell NO. That would be stupid.
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 14, 2007 16:40:28 GMT -6
yeah you were right my bad, they look a lot alike
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 14, 2007 19:48:24 GMT -6
I agree with Phantom. It's their fault they were talking too loud, not yours. It's not like you were TRYING to steal the calls.
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Post by airman on Jul 15, 2007 17:57:53 GMT -6
that is totally different. they have provided me with the film to look at. it is one thing to pick a tendency up on film and another to hear the other team call plays. II figured you would try that argument and I totally disagree with you. In my opinion, it is the exact same thing. You look for anything within the rules that can give you an advantage. Just like viewing players on a videotape, if the coaches on the sideline or up in the box are doing something to tip their hand, you are being foolish to not take advantage. Nothing unethical about that. so if you give me your pin number/credit card number and I go on a shopping spree you are going to pay the bill right? no you are going to be pissed as hell because I took advantage of you. I think the same applies to the sport you coach. I realize in the post modern, moral realtive society we live in you can justify any thing. for me I would be wrong to do. for you it might be the right thing to do. I just know for me it would not be a very good victory party. |
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