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Post by kylem56 on Sept 2, 2007 10:38:57 GMT -6
Well guys, a little background info to go with my question, the staff I am apart of is taking over a program that was 5-45 the last 5 years before we arrived. We won our first game by scoring twice in the last 4 minutes of the game to come back and win. It was a great confidence booster for them. The "never quit" attitude that we as a staff have been stressing all pre season was finally showing. This past Friday we traveled to the defending league champs, they have only lost 1 league game in 4 years and won a state title 2 years ago, so darn good program. We had a good week of practice and the kids seemed focused.
Now into the game.. the kids seemed to just lose al confidence, and were obviously intimidated. We lost 62-0 . The outcome of the game isn't what I am upset about because they were just a better football team but the lack of effort bothers me. It just seems as if they had given up. I coach OL and DL and they were manhandled. As a staff we have very demanding practices but we also make sure to build their confidence up as much as we can. I do not plan on running them to death on Monday because I don't think that will accomplish anything or help us become a better football team. What should I do to help my OL and DL regain their confidence and go back to the never quit attitude ?
sorry for the long post, just venting and looking for advice thanks
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 2, 2007 10:43:30 GMT -6
Been there so I feel your pain. I always tried to find anything positive to go along with the negatives. Maybe a kid got manhandled but he is using/trying to use good technique, etc. You just need to keep them focused on getting better and not on the scoreboard. Obviously the kids are going to need to be able to see some tangible evidence of improvement too but until then keep positive and focus on improvement. Good luck.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 2, 2007 10:55:18 GMT -6
We got beat 42-7 Friday night and it wasn't even that close...We were outcoached outprepared, outplayed, outhustled, and outexecuted.
The bright side is that we know that we are not as good as we thought we were and we simply need to worker harder and smarter in practiceand get the right people in the right positions. Sometimes it takes a first-class butt-kicking to wake everyone up.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 2, 2007 11:40:45 GMT -6
After those kinds of losses, I choke back the frustration and focus on figuring out what went wrong and what we need to fix it. The next week, we stress putting the loss into perspective; don't dwell on it but fix the issues.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2007 13:01:51 GMT -6
great teachable moment. "Look guys, all that hard work we have been doing paid off in week one. Congrats. HOWEVER men, in the world, there is ALWAYS someone out there working just as hard if not harder. They were better than us... AND that is ok. Someone is ALWAYS going to be better than you. If that is going to be a problem, turn in the gear. If that is going to be your challenge, lets strap it up . "
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Post by kylem56 on Sept 2, 2007 14:56:14 GMT -6
ive been taking in everything you guys have posted so far thanks im sure im not the only one whos being helped by this
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Post by phantom on Sept 2, 2007 19:21:03 GMT -6
Well guys, a little background info to go with my question, the staff I am apart of is taking over a program that was 5-45 the last 5 years before we arrived. We won our first game by scoring twice in the last 4 minutes of the game to come back and win. It was a great confidence booster for them. The "never quit" attitude that we as a staff have been stressing all pre season was finally showing. This past Friday we traveled to the defending league champs, they have only lost 1 league game in 4 years and won a state title 2 years ago, so darn good program. We had a good week of practice and the kids seemed focused. Now into the game.. the kids seemed to just lose al confidence, and were obviously intimidated. We lost 62-0 . The outcome of the game isn't what I am upset about because they were just a better football team but the lack of effort bothers me. It just seems as if they had given up. I coach OL and DL and they were manhandled. As a staff we have very demanding practices but we also make sure to build their confidence up as much as we can. I do not plan on running them to death on Monday because I don't think that will accomplish anything or help us become a better football team. What should I do to help my OL and DL regain their confidence and go back to the never quit attitude ? sorry for the long post, just venting and looking for advice thanks Blowouts happen. They can happen to good teams. I think you have to bust their a$$es some for quitting. If you haven't shown them the film yet do it then. When they make mistakes early of, just teach. Don't get excited. If somebody soes something good or makes extra effort. Praise the hell out of him. When you get to the part where they're quitting, then get excited. This is the time for yelling and screaming. They can't choose how much talent they have. Effort and toughness are strictly a matter of choice. Don't let them start getting bad habits and don't let them think it's OK. |
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coachf
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Post by coachf on Sept 2, 2007 23:04:59 GMT -6
I partially agree with phantom. I would yell, but I wouldn't do it on film day. I have never been a big yeller, but I blew a gasket this week in practice. I really tore into the kids. Screaming, up-downs, up-downs, screaming, repeat many times. Now, I never swear and I really stay away from any belittling, but I just called them out on their actions. We went through the motions for so many weeks, just working hard enough to get by. We were on a 12 game losing streak entering Friday. Now, last year, we were just bad. I got hired late and never ever got my staff, nor my players, ready to win. We lacked talent and probably would have been 0-9 anyway, but we shouldn't have taken the beat downs we did. This year we are much improved and although the score didn't show it, we played great against the defending state champs. That was the problem, the kids felt that they had played well, too. And they thought if we can hang with the champs..we can beat so and so. You know what I mean.
I really got on the kids for beating so satisfied with mediocrity and losing. I challenged kids who started. Didn't give them an inch. We were running half line and we had it scheduled for 2 periods- 10 minutes. I bet we spent 20-25, just running the same 3 or 4 plays, while I nitpicked everything. I think the kids at that moment realized that their effort and performance were not good enough anymore. We needed a win. And I am proud to say we went out and got the first win in 2 years. And it was a blowout win. 50-6.
I must say that the refusal to accept a moral victory (which I did last year) made the kids step up their game and they responded well.
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Post by coachcoyote on Sept 2, 2007 23:26:04 GMT -6
Blow outs happen to nearly everyone. Kids get beaten down, then go through the motions. BUT!! To give up with no apparent emotion and willing to stay down if you were knocked down is not acceptable. I think I'd concede how much better the other team may have been, but I would not accept the lack of effort. I'd discipline them for giving up, not being defeated. Find some positives, there are always some. Praise the guys that gave the effort and still got smashed. Praise the guys who attempted their assignments even though they were overpowered. Talent is gained, but some kids just don't have it. Effort is what one is willing to do to fight for his team. Sometimes the hard work isn't rewarded with a W, but the butt whipping stings even more if the attitude allowed it to happen. Sorry for the long post guys, I can accept defeat and not like it, but I can't accept laying down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2007 6:42:34 GMT -6
I agree with dealing with the quitting, but realize that some kids aren't even aware that they have quit or changed the way they're playing.
About 10 years ago I was at a smaller school and after feeling good to only be down 14-0 at halftime to the defending champs, we came out in the 2nd and got hammered. There was definitely a spot where the effort was gone. We showed it on film and one kid said, "you know, I didn't even realize that I was going that slow. I think I was still dazed that they hurt us so bad so quick."
Just a thought.
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Post by brophy on Sept 3, 2007 6:55:28 GMT -6
I agree with dealing with the quitting, but realize that some kids aren't even aware that they have quit or changed the way they're playing. About 10 years ago I was at a smaller school and after feeling good to only be down 14-0 at halftime to the defending champs, we came out in the 2nd and got hammered. There was definitely a spot where the effort was gone. We showed it on film and one kid said, "you know, I didn't even realize that I was going that slow. I think I was still dazed that they hurt us so bad so quick." Just a thought. that is a real good point. If you are "new" to a program that has only known losing, one Butt chewing ain't going to take years of conditioning. Driving them off the team isn't going to get it done, because all they know is failure, if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, why should they stick it out? |
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 3, 2007 7:01:13 GMT -6
I agree with dealing with the quitting, but realize that some kids aren't even aware that they have quit or changed the way they're playing. About 10 years ago I was at a smaller school and after feeling good to only be down 14-0 at halftime to the defending champs, we came out in the 2nd and got hammered. There was definitely a spot where the effort was gone. We showed it on film and one kid said, "you know, I didn't even realize that I was going that slow. I think I was still dazed that they hurt us so bad so quick." Just a thought. that is a real good point. If you are "new" to a program that has only known losing, one Butt chewing ain't going to take years of conditioning. Driving them off the team isn't going to get it done, because all they know is failure, if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, why should they stick it out? That is what the kids have to see. When I was with a losing program that had years of bad seasons before I got there this was what I was trying to accomplish. Get to the point where we turned the corner so we could see the light. I think we got that far before the wheels fell off and we got smacked by the freight train of reality in my last year there. |
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Post by revtaz on Sept 3, 2007 9:38:11 GMT -6
Thank you very much guys.
We got shellacked 48-0, and it wasn't even close. Our DT were getting manhandled, which was the catalyst for a lot of bad.
I have a lot of respect for the gentlemen on this board. To hear that it happens to everyone makes me feel better. I know that I must never stop coaching, these kids are good kids just maybe not the most talented kids.
We got film this afternoon, and we are just going to move on and focus on next week.
Taz
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Post by davecisar on Sept 3, 2007 9:50:12 GMT -6
I agree with dealing with the quitting, but realize that some kids aren't even aware that they have quit or changed the way they're playing. About 10 years ago I was at a smaller school and after feeling good to only be down 14-0 at halftime to the defending champs, we came out in the 2nd and got hammered. There was definitely a spot where the effort was gone. We showed it on film and one kid said, "you know, I didn't even realize that I was going that slow. I think I was still dazed that they hurt us so bad so quick." Just a thought. that is a real good point. If you are "new" to a program that has only known losing, one Butt chewing ain't going to take years of conditioning. Driving them off the team isn't going to get it done, because all they know is failure, if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, why should they stick it out? Thats one of the reasons I think maybe it makes sense to play to win at JV and Frosh levels in HS., instead of the kids getting pummeled and then expecting them to win or have a winning attitude when the finally play varsity ball. Winning is an attitude most cant turn off and on like a light switch, it is developed over time. For perennial losing programs, where the kids rarely see any success. I would think this would be important. I see it in my kids eyes, even when things go bad, they still expect to win somehow.Ive seen perrennial losing teams ahead late in the 4th quarter EXPECT to lose somehow and often do in wierd fashion. The wheels fall off because the kids are so used to losing on Frosh and JV teams. |
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Post by Yash on Sept 3, 2007 11:48:45 GMT -6
I don't think the never quit attitude is created over night, or for that matter over the course of one offseason. I think that type of attitude is built over a few years. If you can get these seniors now to get that attitude over the course of this season, it will trickle down to the younger kids. Once that starts to happen it will grow and your program is will become successful on the scoreboard as well. I think that the never quit attitude is formed in off season work outs through competition against one and other during lifting and such. When you start getting those kids that have that look in their eye that they will run through a brick wall if you ask them to, thats when you know you got them hooked on your program.
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Post by phantom on Sept 3, 2007 11:54:27 GMT -6
that is a real good point. If you are "new" to a program that has only known losing, one Butt chewing ain't going to take years of conditioning. Driving them off the team isn't going to get it done, because all they know is failure, if they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, why should they stick it out? Thats one of the reasons I think maybe it makes sense to play to win at JV and Frosh levels in HS., instead of the kids getting pummeled and then expecting them to win or have a winning attitude when the finally play varsity ball. Winning is an attitude most cant turn off and on like a light switch, it is developed over time. For perennenai losing programs, where rhe kids rarely see any success. I would think this would be important. I see it in my kids eyes, even when things go bad, they still expect to win, Ive seen perrennial losing teams ahead late in the 4th quarter EXPECT to lose somehow and often do in wierd fashion. If we're talking about a new program I agree with this. I wasn't there but in my boss's first year they had good young talent. They decided to keep them together on the JVs and experience success instead of calling them up and getting hammered, more of the same. In a mature progrem, I feel differently. If a kid can play varsity, if he can help us, he plays up. |
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Post by davecisar on Sept 3, 2007 13:09:48 GMT -6
Not my point. I agree if a kid is the best at his position and is in a position to help the varsity out, probably makes sense for him to play varsity.
My point was the kids need to learn how to compete and win and I disagree with the guys that dont care if their Frosh or JV teams win a game or not. If the Frosh and JV teams go a combined 0-20 my guess is Junior isnt coming back out, or if he does he wont feel very confident in himself or the system. The great HS teams around here anyways win at all levels, Frosh, JV and Varsity.
Im no HS coach, just MHO.
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Post by phantom on Sept 3, 2007 17:12:59 GMT -6
Not my point. I agree if a kid is the best at his position and is in a position to help the varsity out, probably makes sense for him to play varsity. My point was the kids need to learn how to compete and win and I disagree with the guys that dont care if their Frosh or JV teams win a game or not. If the Frosh and JV teams go a combined 0-20 my guess is Junior isnt coming back out, or if he does he wont feel very confident in himself or the system. The great HS teams around here anyways win at all levels, Frosh, JV and Varsity. Im no HS coach, just MHO. I don't see where we're disagreeing. |
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Post by coachjim on Sept 4, 2007 2:57:58 GMT -6
We only talk about "winning" in terms of what we need to do to get the championship. We can't preach winning as a single achievement though because if that's what its all about and we don't, the kids don't come back. Its already on shaky ground, personnel-wise.
One of the other coaches on the 14 year old squad said one night. "I like monopoly, checkers and chess. But I love football. I don't care if I win, gentlemen, but I hate to lose! Hate to lose! I won't tell you to go out and win. Just never lose. Never lose and that is what will make me happy, and you proud."
I thought it was an interesting approach, how about you guys?
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