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Post by phantom on Apr 11, 2006 6:39:44 GMT -6
I saw this in the news today. It's softball but I think the question pertains to all coaches. What do you think about this situation?
>>>A disagreement over what rules his players should follow has led to the resignation of Valley View softball coach E.J. Weston, who in his first two seasons led the Cougars to a Lackawanna League Division II and a District 2 title. At a Monday morning meeting, Weston offered his resignation and high school principal Donald Kanavy accepted it.
The heart of the disagreement: Whether Weston’s players could play in a Powder Puff football game scheduled for May.
“It’s a fundraiser for the Cancer Society and we have a variety of athletes and students who participate in it,” Valley View superintendent Joe Daley said from Chicago, where he is attending the National School Board Conference. “It’s a touch football game. Apparently, one of our coaches didn’t want his kids to play.
“It’s not a coaching decision. That’s a decision made by our school board and administration. It’s up to the kids if they want to play. Coaches need to get resolved with that fact. Then you have to make a decision yourself, and apparently he decided to resign and the principal accepted on my behalf. We will deal with it when we return.”
Weston said his decision to resign was a matter of principle.
“I love coaching more than anything,” Weston said. “I really am sad over this but I can’t compromise what I believe in.”
What Weston believed in was his rules, which asked softball players not to play other sports in the spring. That included the Powder Puff game.
“As a coach, I set rules and parameters that each kid has to follow,” Weston said. “One of my rules is that they are softball players during the season and softball players only. I’m concerned our kids could get hurt.
“My main goal is to do what is in the best interest of the softball team I am coaching. I guess I’m old school. I’m trying to make them realize what it takes to be on a team.
“I was told by the administration I had to do it their way.”
Valley View assistant Joe Homentosky stepped up to the interim head coaching position in Monday’s 10-1 win over West Scranton.
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Post by tog on Apr 11, 2006 6:46:28 GMT -6
aau and other club sports will be the death of hs athletics if we let it
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Post by coachnorm on Apr 11, 2006 6:57:13 GMT -6
While I agree with tog, I think taking a stand against a charity powder puff game is not going to win you many friends. You've got to be a lot more carefull about picking your battles. True, one of your kids could get hurt in the game. They could also get hurt driving down to the store (which is actually more likely) or doing nearly anything else. We have enough problems to deal with as coaches without going looking for them.
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Post by tribepride on Apr 11, 2006 6:58:21 GMT -6
During homecoming week our girls volleyball teams plays in the schools powder puff game. The V.B. isn't thrilled about it but their haven't been any issues in the 8 years I have been at this school. IMHO I don't think the coach should give up his job over a powder puff football game. Kids have to be kids and should be allowed to play more than one sport. Why can't a kid play in more than one sport if they have the talent?
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JMC
Sophomore Member
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Post by JMC on Apr 11, 2006 6:58:33 GMT -6
I agree, and the thing that gets me about this is the way the superintendent spoke in the press. If you hire a coach respect his decisions as long as they don't put the kids in harms way and this was a good decision if that is how the coach sees fit. I'll bet you the super never coached a sport in his life just some book nerd with no respect for athletics and that is the thing that is going wrong in high schools we have principals and super's who never wore the uniform, put forth the sweat and desire to play the sport and they have no respect for it, pathetic. I think people like that need to stay away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2006 7:06:34 GMT -6
I think if you're the coach and you don't want to look bad for not letting them take part in some sort of charity event, yet don't want injuries, you change the focus.
By that I mean you announce that while your team can't compete in that, they are going to do a 1-day fundraiser for cancer treatment, will volunteer at Hospice for a day, will do something positive like that.
I mean, how many of you would want your players to play in a Wednesday night charity basketball game the week you hope to take over 1st place in the league?
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Post by phantom on Apr 11, 2006 9:25:10 GMT -6
I think if you're the coach and you don't want to look bad for not letting them take part in some sort of charity event, yet don't want injuries, you change the focus. By that I mean you announce that while your team can't compete in that, they are going to do a 1-day fundraiser for cancer treatment, will volunteer at Hospice for a day, will do something positive like that. I mean, how many of you would want your players to play in a Wednesday night charity basketball game the week you hope to take over 1st place in the league? Exactly. I'd also be unconfortable with the superintendent's interference. Based on what I read I think that the coach did the right thing. I'm sure that there's more to the story but I thought that the article would be the basis of an interesting discussion.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
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Post by coachf on Apr 11, 2006 9:34:26 GMT -6
I think you have to pick your battles. We had our football players doing some cheer for homecoming and they were doing flips and jumps and all kinds of junk. The coaching staff all thought it was a bad idea, but we knew we would catch a ton of crap if we said anything.
Administrators are usually unsympathetic and could care less about students or sports. They are totally concerned with reputation and money.
I think that irishblitzer had a great insight on this. That would have been my first attempt out of it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 11, 2006 9:47:56 GMT -6
We had a similar situation when I was in school. During homecoming week, we had a Poweder puff girls game, and then a "volleyball" night when everyone in the school played intraclass volleyball games. Our first year head coach did not allow the football players to play in the volleyball night on Wednesday, and everyone met his decision with scorn. "What a fool, an idiot... he doesn't get it. He doesn't understand "our tradition". Then Friday, one of the Cheerleaders broke her leg in the powderpuff game, and our coach now looked a WHOLE lot better in the eyes of everyone.
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Post by airman on Apr 11, 2006 10:00:33 GMT -6
speaking of home coming, how many of you allow your football players to be on the court?
I think if you are out for football, you are in the locker room at halftime, not out being crowned home coming king.
this was the rule at my h.s. when I was growing up. your job was to win the game.
as for the softball coach, he is between a rock and a hard place.
how about h.s. pe? do you allow your kids to do anything on game day? friend of mine lost his best basketball player because the kid was playing volleyball the day of the game. kid sprained his ankle playing volleyball in PE class.
I remember a time when it was game day, you were excused from PE.
the super however, just tossed him under the bus.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
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Post by coachf on Apr 11, 2006 10:35:27 GMT -6
Players should be in the locker room (i've had experience with this). No way that homecoming is worth a darn if you lose the game.
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Post by cookiemonster on Apr 11, 2006 10:57:24 GMT -6
I could care less about the Powder Puff situation but he would not be on my staff if I caught wind of the rule about only playing softball in the spring.We all have to work together to be successful.As the AD you have to look at what is good for the entire program not just one sport. I would like to see how his policy effected the other sports.
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Post by brophy on Apr 11, 2006 11:00:28 GMT -6
I would've got him a box of Huggies and had him hit the bricks. The players are human beings, let them live life, that and it was for a good cause to help the community.
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Post by saintrad on Apr 11, 2006 11:13:30 GMT -6
the coach was a hypocrite...he preached team, but when the bigger team (e.g. community and school called) he became a "me first" athlete.
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Post by phantom on Apr 11, 2006 11:16:39 GMT -6
Cookiemonster: I don't see many teams sharing athletes in-season.
Brophy: As Irishblitzer asked earlier, would you want your players playing a basketball game during football season?
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Post by phantom on Apr 11, 2006 11:20:13 GMT -6
speaking of home coming, how many of you allow your football players to be on the court? I think if you are out for football, you are in the locker room at halftime, not out being crowned home coming king. this was the rule at my h.s. when I was growing up. your job was to win the game. as for the softball coach, he is between a rock and a hard place. how about h.s. pe? do you allow your kids to do anything on game day? friend of mine lost his best basketball player because the kid was playing volleyball the day of the game. kid sprained his ankle playing volleyball in PE class. I remember a time when it was game day, you were excused from PE. the super however, just tossed him under the bus. We lost a few Homecoming games before we got smart and stopped allowing the players to participate in Homecoming. We tell them that they get enough of the limelight. Let somebody else have some.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 11, 2006 12:39:12 GMT -6
We lost a few Homecoming games before we got smart and stopped allowing the players to participate in Homecoming
Ah... homecoming. I could write a novel on this subject... we have few problems here (we did at one time... more with the community wanting us to miss practice to be in the parade the night before). When I was at a large school, homecoming was a big deal- the pageantry was amazing (and ridiculous, in my opinion). Our guys were in skits, did dance routines... etc.(I wondered why they never won a HC game). I debated this a lot, but rather than fight it, I helped to contribute to the stupidity. We made that game a big deal. We bought black jerseys we changed in to after pregame warm-ups, I had all the seniors talk about how it was a special game, had a "passing only" game involving just linemen at practice...etc. I think that helped us a lot (we won 5 of 6 HC games), because it was kind of a special event, and let kids be kids. it was one of the times I hoped we could play off of the emotion, because i knew we wouldn't be as focused. I'll admit for the first few years, we played some pretty weak teams, but the last 3 years we played top 10 ranked teams and won 2 of those games... the mystique was born.
This situation is maybe a bit different... I agree that you are to only play football during football (it is a district and state rule here)... I'm not sure I see a benefit "game" the same as "another sport". I worry about kids getting hurt outside of football too, but I can't tell them don't work on the farm (we had a fullback break his hand because he punched a bull... tough kid... not very smart though)
RE: the team rule, one thing we have gone to years ago was have our seniors set team rules in a meeting with me. Even though they are basically my rules, they have ownership... they are a lot easier to enforce if the players (think they) made the rules.
The bottom line is do the kids "buy in" (homecoming rituals, playing in charity games, what offense you run, team rules, etc.)? If they do, no matter what you do it will work out. If they don't, then THAT is the situation that needs to be addressed or you will have problems.
p.s. We no longer let our players be in the court. Several years ago in a tight game, we had this big lineman who was told he needed to go to midfield because "they are waiting for you". His response was "f*** 'em", and he continued on to meet with the team. That didn't go over real well... so it is better for us to not let them go out at half (they have a "representative").
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 11, 2006 12:43:52 GMT -6
In looking at my post, it seems I've done some different things RE: HC. A lot of it has to do with the school, community, etc. and what they value. When I coached in Wyoming, we had hunting vacation right before playoffs. i didn't like that, but it was a big deal to our players families, so we had no practice for 3 days while "hunting vacation" went on. I left that job after a year.... One thing remains true- there is no set way to go about this business because there can be vast differences in communities.
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Post by mitch on Apr 13, 2006 9:05:28 GMT -6
As a head coach in any sport, one of your most important jobs is public relations. I agree you can't compromise your principles to be liked by the community, but forbidding your athletes to take part in a charity event is a shaky principle to stand on. This is not an issue of sports sharing athletes, but a case of athletes having the oppurtunity to do something positive in the community by HELPING other people. What are we teaching kids when we say they can't help raise money for cancer patients b/c there is a REMOTE possibility you may not be able to play in a game?
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Post by phantom on Apr 13, 2006 9:27:34 GMT -6
I agree that the players should participate in community events but I'm with Irishblitzer in believing that the team should hold their own fundraiser for cancer. I also don't think that a powder puff football game offers a "remote" possibility of injury. I think that there's a better than decent chance that somebody could get dinged or at least sore enough to compromise their ability to play a game.
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Post by joepafan on Apr 14, 2006 22:04:18 GMT -6
Hey, I'm fairly new to posting here, but I've been along time reader. We have a coach that has been doing baseball for 32 years. He has 4 state titles, 16 district titles and numerous league titles to his credit. The town, administration, and school give in to him whatever the case may be. He does not allow his players to do ANYTHING! Baseball only and he tells them that on day one. I mean no lifting during the season, no pick-up basketball, no youth baseball, no golfing(weekend or otherwise). He even tells students they will be kicked off the team if they go on their senior class trip. What really takes the cake is he is famous for his tirades on players using the F---- word!!!
Now all the other sports must go to a beat from a different drum with all the above.
When I brought several of these concerns up to a school board member, he publicly chastised me for trying to undercut a program with the stature the coach has developed.
The kids think it's cool that he swears, because they can do it as long as a school official or umpire does not hear it. The supe came to practice once to tell him not to swear. He told the supe that he will have a heart attack if he can't use the vulgar language. The supe turned and walked out the gate and never came back with no disciplinary action.
Another instance was summer ball. One player decided to play nine holes on the morning of a game. Coach was at the same course and saw him play. Kicked off.
The point I'm trying to make is that success can create a double standard.
Any comments?
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Post by carson101 on Apr 16, 2006 1:19:27 GMT -6
As for me being a Cancer patient I think the guy sucks, health care isn't cheap by no means and to have a few girls give up a couple hours to raise some coin to find a cure or treatment for someone is a great idea. I don't think its a big friggin deal. I'm only 42 but what about those little kids that might not even get a future, screw the guy, to many of them in this world anyways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2006 7:33:51 GMT -6
And then there's the story about the girl who was a cheerleader and got hoarse from cheering at a Thursday night basketball game. The next day was District Music Festival and she couldn't sing. Ended up getting a C in her chorale class because of it.
Apparently the grade was ruled to be justified because the performance was to be with a CLASS CHOIR not an extracurricular one. Since she so poorly performed the teacher gave her a C.
So it's not just football coaches that want their performers in top shape.
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Post by los on Apr 16, 2006 7:34:34 GMT -6
Yep, wrong battle to fight here! Let the girls have some fun! You gotta be careful not to come across as a powermad control freak whether you mean to or not and lose sight of the big picture that high school sports plays in the lives of players and the community. As much as I hate to agree with the school administration or any other authority groups for that matter, they were Arghhh - right about this.
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Post by kcbazooka on Apr 16, 2006 8:02:37 GMT -6
Wow, some interesting ideas expressed. I think the coach had every right to not allow his girls to play in the game. As others have said, maybe they could have done something else at the function - referee, cheerlead, sell tickets, work concessions, etc. I'm trying to think of how a similar situation could be used for the football analogy. Lets say there was a wrestling tournament or a weightlifting max out competition, or a marathon run, or a "skate or die" exhibition during football season - would you want your football athletes to be involved?
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Post by rhsathletics3 on Apr 16, 2006 9:55:30 GMT -6
One of my baseball players told me that soccer was in season also when I told him that we were in season with baseball and he should not be playing soccer on the weekends. It is very frustrating, but I decide who runs on and off the field for my team. If he wants to play soccer on the weekends, then he risks not playing baseball on Mon-Fri.
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Post by los on Apr 16, 2006 18:46:43 GMT -6
We never stopped playing full contact(no pads) sandlot football during our regular high school football season. Played every Sunday! Or we all went to the city park and played basketball, which was a bring your own 5, play to 20 by ones till you lose. This could get kinda rough too at times!Really dont remember anyone getting hurt too much! We lost more guys on the hs. team i help coach now because of 4 wheeler accidents and getting hurt at their part time jobs. This is the same overly cautious attitude as not hitting in practice for fear of injuring your teammates. Hey, sports are rough but life is rough and theres no cradle to grave guarrantee's that your not gonna get hurt! But you cant be scared to go out your front door everyday huh?
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Post by mudslinger on Apr 17, 2006 14:27:21 GMT -6
Lots of great replies.......gotta get mine in..........Football practice all week and games on Friday night........Then Saturday nights I strapped into a dirt track stockcar(The name Mudslinger makin sense?) My coach didnt like it but his thought wasnt me getting hurt as much as it was gettin killed. On the other side my dad was always worried I would get hurt in football and not be able to drive Saturday night...Never missed one because of the other ..I'm glad it never came down to a "either or " decision cuz I still dont know what I would have chosen.........Now I have a daughter playing softball and I cringe everytime I see her pick up the basketball and head down the street with her buds........So the way you feel about things like that will change as time goes by.
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