kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 10, 2014 12:21:24 GMT -6
I've coached and am very close with a player who's played 7 years of Pop Warner/AYF (all over the field, primarily, but last season could have played older-lighter Jr Midget but instead played up as QB on the Midget team), all-star Little League pitcher, and local youth Soccer star. At 13 he's 5'11+, 145 (pretty much all muscle). He's never been in a youth program that put much emphasis on the passing game, let alone QB technique, but his basic athleticism led to success as a QB at the youth level.... and he's also dominated the local flag football league at the QB position. In the summer before his frosh year, he put in a ton of work on his mechanics and footwork, with hopes of playing QB in HS.
He made his frosh team (60+ players), on which each player has been slotted for both an offensive and defensive position. He's a QB/DE. After a month of practice, he had an OK performance in two series in their only scrimmage (each of 5 QBs got equal playing time) He probably didn't have the best technique but has excellent vision/decision making, accuracy, and a strong arm. He had a great showing at DE: one sack, getting to the backfield past kids with no blocking experience, etc. He had much more playing time at DE simply because they're much deeper at QB.
He just learned he's been listed as 4th out of 5 on the depth chart at QB, but it looks like he'll be starting as DE.
On paper, the guys ahead of him at QB are clearly better prepared: one spent the last few summers attending QB camps, the other came through the a local pop warner program that produced the schools current varsity QB and offensive coordinator (and his brother is the current varsity QB2).
He'd actually prefer to start at DE than sit on the bench as a QB, but he'd also very much like to play QB, and those of us around him certainly think he has a higher ceiling as a QB than DE. And I think it's much more likely that if he's starting as a Senior it'd be at QB than at DE.
Any words of wisdom?
Is it likely that starting as a DE means that he isn't going to get the instruction at QB that he'd need to play QB next year?
He can't possibly tell the coaches he'd rather not start at DE, can he?
Should he just go all-in at DE this season, then worry about his QB skills in the off season?
So far his parents have been completely hands-off with the coaches, and have it to him to talk to them. Is it reasonable for them to ask the coaches these sorts of questions? None of us are saying "OMG why aren't you starting him??", it's more a matter of how we help him get to where he wants to be.
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Post by blackknight on Sept 10, 2014 13:09:06 GMT -6
"he just go all-in at DE this season, then worry about his QB skills in the off season"
There is your answer
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 10, 2014 16:55:02 GMT -6
"he just go all-in at DE this season, then worry about his QB skills in the off season" There is your answer That's really what I'm assuming too... just go all out and do what the team/coaches ask you to do.. and that's the path he's on at the moment. I can't help but think back to my days playing 30+ years ago--when most kids (at least the ones I knew and played with) never put on a helmet until their freshman year--and be amazed at the amount preparation kids have when they walk out on the field for the first time in High School. Between the camps and the Top Guns and the Elite 11s and the national rankings and stats and All-American lists and Top X00 lists of 9th graders you see these days it makes it seem like if you're not nationally ranked by the time you hit JV, you've... well... you've "lost". I'll just keep reminding him Tom Brady didn't get on the field in 9th grade and was 7th on the depth chart when he started at Michigan. |
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 10, 2014 17:42:57 GMT -6
I would second the motion to go all out at DE. It is almost unthinkable in my mind that a player would refuse a position assigned to him by the coach. It's one of the things that I think makes football such a great game. You're expected to play the role that best serves the team.
I am a little curious as to why your perception of him as a QB is so much different than that of the coaching staff. It's possible that they have overlooked him for some reason, but I also think it might be possible that your perception is skewed.
Regardless, if I was advising this kid, I would encourage him to play his heart out at whatever position he is assigned. Then, if he feels very strongly about his ability to be starting QB, may be he could share these feelings with the coaching staff in the offseason. Maybe ask the appropriate coaches to drill with him, watch him throw, etc.
Furthermore, this might be related to a scenario I've seen play out 1000 times at the freshman level. On that first day of trying out for different positions, there are 10 kids trying out for QB. 5 of them played QB in their various pop warner teams, 3 of them are baseball guys that have been told they have a cannon for an arm, and another 2 are all around athletic point guard type guys. This group of kids probably represents the most purely athletic kids on the team. And they are all legitimate QB type kids. The problem is, the frosh team has no need for 10 QBs, so they find the best 4 and those other kids get repositioned. That can be hard to swallow for some.
Finally, unless this kid is a legitimate blue chip type recruit, I would encourage this kid to view himself first and foremost as a "football player" as opposed to a QB. Embrace whatever role you are assigned and have a blast while making lifelong friends and lasting memories.
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Post by freezeoption on Sept 10, 2014 20:43:49 GMT -6
He's a frosh, man, he has a long time to work on qb, if he is good enough to play de then go with that. 60 plus 9th graders he should be happy to start anywhere. I can't imagine how to work that all in unless you have a A and B team, I would get 25 out for frosh bball and we didn't cut, so I did the best I could, but getting 12 to 15 players in a game was a feat in itself, let alone trying to win the game.
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Post by dytmook on Sept 11, 2014 7:56:04 GMT -6
Play wherever you can early. The coaches will move him if he can help them elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with saying "I'd like to try xyz" as long as it isn't in the middle of practice or a game.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 11, 2014 9:16:50 GMT -6
You're crossing over into "parent" territory by the way you sound. He's obviously not a great QB. JUst focus on DE for this season.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 11, 2014 10:24:12 GMT -6
Be a team guy.
Do what is best for the team.
Sent from my VS980 4G using proboards
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Post by wolverine55 on Sept 11, 2014 10:33:15 GMT -6
You're crossing over into "parent" territory by the way you sound. He's obviously not a great QB. JUst focus on DE for this season. I wasn't going to be this blunt, but I agree with it. If there's three better QBs in his own class--not taking into account kids a year older and a year younger--his primary focus definitely needs to be on becoming the best DE he can be. |
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Post by newhope on Sept 11, 2014 10:55:46 GMT -6
I want to be President. I'm sure my family thinks I could be great at it. It isn't going to happen. I'm going to be the best high school coach I can be. Your son needs to be the best DE he can be and you need to leave the coaches alone about it. If he wants to work in the offseason to better himself as a QB, then have at it--but don't expect that if he's that far down the depth chart at QB that he will suddenly rise to the top.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 11, 2014 12:21:07 GMT -6
You're crossing over into "parent" territory by the way you sound. He's obviously not a great QB. JUst focus on DE for this season. I wasn't going to be this blunt, but I agree with it. If there's three better QBs in his own class--not taking into account kids a year older and a year younger--his primary focus definitely needs to be on becoming the best DE he can be. thats my thought...with 3 kids in his class, he will most likely never see a down at QB in his 4 years. |
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 11, 2014 13:19:36 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback, even if it is blunt. I recognize I'm crossing into "parent territory", but for the record, he's not my son. I'm close with the family, I've coached him in the past, and not only would I like to see him do well, but I'd like to get a feel for what I can do down the road with other kids I'll coach to make sure they're prepared for HS.
"thats my thought...with 3 kids in his class, he will most likely never see a down at QB in his 4 years."
Keep in mind they've been through 1 month of practice and 8 plays each in one jamboree. It wouldn't shock me if that's the case, but it'd be disappointing. To my earlier point, it's crazy to see how much could be determined by how prepared a kid is the first day he steps on the field in HS when he's 13.
"He's a frosh, man, he has a long time to work on qb"
I'd like to think so...
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 11, 2014 14:18:30 GMT -6
He's a DE because that's what the team needs him to be. So, he needs to do everything in his power to be the best DE he can on the team's time. He can do whatever he wants on his own time.
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Post by dubber on Sept 11, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -6
"thats my thought...with 3 kids in his class, he will most likely never see a down at QB in his 4 years." Keep in mind they've been through 1 month of practice and 8 plays each in one jamboree. It wouldn't shock me if that's the case, but it'd be disappointing. Why? For whom? |
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 11, 2014 15:47:46 GMT -6
> Why? For whom? Because he'd like to play QB, and people around him would like to see him succeed at what he wants to do. At no point in his 7 years of playing has he ever said "I'd really like to play Defensive End." And because all the evidence to date (game performance, feedback from other coaches) has led him and those around him to think he'd have success as a QB Or are you asking why somebody would rather play QB than DE?  |
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 11, 2014 16:16:34 GMT -6
sounds like he's not the best qb on the team. in fact, the staff feels they have quite a few options they could go to before needing to utilize him at qb.
also, appears that he is one of the better DE's on the team.
it could be that the coaches - like just about every staff i've been on or coaching staff i've spoken with - are looking to get as many of their best players on the field as they can. in doing this, they took an apparently good athlete that would otherwise be buried behind better qb's and placed him on the field.
his choices? play football - as a DE - or, play another sport. last resort? transfer
in reality, this thing happens all the time. a kid and his parents want one thing and it doesn't coincide with what the team needs. sometimes, timing is a factor. heck, this kid could very well be ryan mallet. however, he's in school at the same time as tom brady & peyton manning .... what are you gonna do, right? We've actually had this scenario - had a great QB but he couldn't get on the field as a QB because the 'other' QB just happened to be better - he went on to play in the NFL for 4 years. We took this #2 - great qb, mind you - and made him an OLB. just so happened that he became all conference at that position.
life's full of mountains and molehills ... this ain't no mountain.
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 11, 2014 17:23:20 GMT -6
As Coach Huey said, this happens all the time. We had 4 incoming freshmen this year that wanted to play QB. Honestly, the best two are average at best at this point, but have plenty of room for improvement. As for the other two, one is now a TE/DE, and the other is a RB/LB where they'll actually see playing time. That doesn't mean those two can't work on their QB skills in the off season and give QB a try next season. From the eye test, neither will ever take a snap at QB, but I'm not going to stop them trying to prove our staff wrong.
I'd also like to add that the coaching staff in the OP's story probably didn't just evaluate those 5 QB's from the scrimmage alone. That's what practice is for. If we had a QB that looked good in practice and had a ton of potential, but didn't have a great scrimmage, we wouldn't just move him to DE. He probably hasn't shown the staff any promise in practice either.
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Post by dubber on Sept 11, 2014 21:43:18 GMT -6
> Why? For whom? Because he'd like to play QB, and people around him would like to see him succeed at what he wants to do. At no point in his 7 years of playing has he ever said "I'd really like to play Defensive End." And because all the evidence to date (game performance, feedback from other coaches) has led him and those around him to think he'd have success as a QB Or are you asking why somebody would rather play QB than DE?
Yes. Why is it disappointing to play DE instead of QB?
You make it sound like he is really missing out on something by not playing QB......like it will be something he will lament for the rest of his life.
Here's my guess, he wants it so bad (or rather, thinks he wants it so bad) because the adults around him are talking about it.
Go a week without mentioning his playing QB, and I guarantee he won't bring it up.
Sorry if this doesn't go over well, but from what I have read, the adults want this. They want to see their guy be THE guy. When they see their guy fail, they want to step in.
14 year old males don't have a sense of legacy or prestige, they want to run around and have fun with their friends.
I suggest the adults in his life back off and let him do so.
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Post by NC1974 on Sept 11, 2014 21:53:09 GMT -6
I have never coached youth football and this is just my opinion but this is one of the things that worries me about youth football. The fact that 12-14 yr old kids come into high school with this expectation that they will play a particular position is bothersome to me.
Many of these kids have:
-not hit their growth spurts
-have sometimes been assigned positions based on relative ht and wt to the other guys on the team
-have played in leagues where the talent pool is watered down compared to high school (there is nothing wrong with this but it could give a kid and his family a skewed image)
-have played on teams that might have relied purely on "giving the ball" to their best athletes and therefore might not be all that fundamentally sound
-have had well intentioned parents and coaches telling them how good they are at X position
And then these guys get disillusioned when they get assigned to another position in HS.
The one other thing that worries me about this, and I a may be misinterpreting the OP's message, is the very unrealistic view many players and parents have when it comes to the chances of receiving athletic scholarships. I feel there are many more players and parents out there now who think their kids have legitimate chances of gettiing D1 athletic shcolarships. And because they think this, the stakes become higher. "If coach isn't playing Jimmy at QB, he's hurting his chances of getting a scholarship"
While I would always want to encourage kids to work to achieve their goals and dreams, some people need a reality check inm regards to odds of receiving D1 athletic scholarships.
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 11, 2014 23:22:23 GMT -6
Yes. Why is it disappointing to play DE instead of QB?
You make it sound like he is really missing out on something by not playing QB......like it will be something he will lament for the rest of his life.
Here's my guess, he wants it so bad (or rather, thinks he wants it so bad) because the adults around him are talking about it.
Go a week without mentioning his playing QB, and I guarantee he won't bring it up.
Sorry if this doesn't go over well, but from what I have read, the adults want this. They want to see their guy be THE guy. When they see their guy fail, they want to step in.
14 year old males don't have a sense of legacy or prestige, they want to run around and have fun with their friends.
I suggest the adults in his life back off and let him do so.
As far as "Sorry if this doesn't go over well"... it actually goes over just fine. It's a great point. I think it's be really interesting to dig into that with say, all the 8th graders at the Manning Passing Academy some summer: "Why do you want to play QB?" I'll bet you could, at some level, trace all of their desires to play QB back to being taught by adults that they should want to be a QB. Either that or they want to be like some player they've been taught to idolize... who's probably more often than not a QB. In fact, I'll bet you could go even deeper... I wonder how many kids out there running around wearing protective headgear and pads smashing into each other at full speed are just doing it because adults have taught them they should want to. I've seen quite a few 6-9 year olds who decide they reeeeeally don't want to play football the first day they put pads on and get tackled. "Just play one year, then you can decide if you don't want to play after that" is a pretty common thing to hear from parents. Sorry... sorta veered off track. "Go a week without mentioning his playing QB, and I guarantee he won't bring it up." I'll bet your right. I think everybody's going to just try to back off at this point, and let him start to drive things more. |
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 11, 2014 23:46:04 GMT -6
I have never coached youth football and this is just my opinion but this is one of the things that worries me about youth football. The fact that 12-14 yr old kids come into high school with this expectation that they will play a particular position is bothersome to me. [Bunch of great points] And then these guys get disillusioned when they get assigned to another position in HS. Sounds pretty spot-on to me The one other thing that worries me about this, and I a may be misinterpreting the OP's message, is the very unrealistic view many players and parents have when it comes to the chances of receiving athletic scholarships. I feel there are many more players and parents out there now who think their kids have legitimate chances of gettiing D1 athletic shcolarships. And because they think this, the stakes become higher. "If coach isn't playing Jimmy at QB, he's hurting his chances of getting a scholarship" While I would always want to encourage kids to work to achieve their goals and dreams, some people need a reality check inm regards to odds of receiving D1 athletic scholarships. I'll bet QBs are particularly prone to this. It's easy for most parents to see that their kid isn't 6'4, 240lbs, or that he can't run a 4.4... but if he's 6'2, in good shape, and can hit a wide open receiver 40 yards downfield a couple of times, he's just has to buckle down and study a bunch of film and he's the next Tom Brady, right? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 12, 2014 0:03:40 GMT -6
In fact, I'll bet you could go even deeper... I wonder how many kids out there running around wearing protective headgear and pads smashing into each other at full speed are just doing it because adults have taught them they should want to. I've seen quite a few 6-9 year olds who decide they reeeeeally don't want to play football the first day they put pads on and get tackled. "Just play one year, then you can decide if you don't want to play after that" is a pretty common thing to hear from parents. As a high school coach I can tell you that it's not hard to pick out those kids. They either quit pretty quickly or fade into the background. |
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Post by jsk002 on Sept 12, 2014 11:13:33 GMT -6
This entire thread is worrying about things that don't matter. It doesn't matter what position you play. What matters is that you learn the valuable life lessen's that football teaches, how to work hard, how to work as a member of the team etc.
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Post by dubber on Sept 12, 2014 11:52:14 GMT -6
Yes. Why is it disappointing to play DE instead of QB?
You make it sound like he is really missing out on something by not playing QB......like it will be something he will lament for the rest of his life.
Here's my guess, he wants it so bad (or rather, thinks he wants it so bad) because the adults around him are talking about it.
Go a week without mentioning his playing QB, and I guarantee he won't bring it up.
Sorry if this doesn't go over well, but from what I have read, the adults want this. They want to see their guy be THE guy. When they see their guy fail, they want to step in.
14 year old males don't have a sense of legacy or prestige, they want to run around and have fun with their friends.
I suggest the adults in his life back off and let him do so.
As far as "Sorry if this doesn't go over well"... it actually goes over just fine. It's a great point. I think it's be really interesting to dig into that with say, all the 8th graders at the Manning Passing Academy some summer: "Why do you want to play QB?" I'll bet you could, at some level, trace all of their desires to play QB back to being taught by adults that they should want to be a QB. Either that or they want to be like some player they've been taught to idolize... who's probably more often than not a QB. In fact, I'll bet you could go even deeper... I wonder how many kids out there running around wearing protective headgear and pads smashing into each other at full speed are just doing it because adults have taught them they should want to. I've seen quite a few 6-9 year olds who decide they reeeeeally don't want to play football the first day they put pads on and get tackled. "Just play one year, then you can decide if you don't want to play after that" is a pretty common thing to hear from parents. Sorry... sorta veered off track. "Go a week without mentioning his playing QB, and I guarantee he won't bring it up." I'll bet your right. I think everybody's going to just try to back off at this point, and let him start to drive things more. Sounds like you are in a good place then.
Encourage the kid to be the best DE and teammate he can be.........besides, it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun to bury a QB on the blindside than it is to throw a TD pass.
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Sept 12, 2014 16:47:13 GMT -6
"besides, it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun to bury a QB on the blindside than it is to throw a TD pass." Hah... well... yeah, he's playing Right DE in a 4-3. We'll see. He's settling in pretty nicely. He and the other QBs ahead of him have already started joking about the fact that he sorta has a conflict of interests when it comes to practice. Having a backup QB pass rush is dangerous  . (TOTALLY kidding) And he's having fun playing scout team QB, getting in some touches that way. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 12, 2014 21:27:48 GMT -6
"besides, it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more fun to bury a QB on the blindside than it is to throw a TD pass." Hah... well... yeah, he's playing Right DE in a 4-3. We'll see. He's settling in pretty nicely. He and the other QBs ahead of him have already started joking about the fact that he sorta has a conflict of interests when it comes to practice. Having a backup QB pass rush is dangerous . (TOTALLY kidding) And he's having fun playing scout team QB, getting in some touches that way. It IS a game. It's supposed to be fun. |
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Post by the1mitch on Sept 14, 2014 6:43:50 GMT -6
Best advice so far given IMHO, is "time will tell the experts what is right." I started in spring with 5 Frosh QB's on a 32 man roster. One is now my starting right tackle, one is a backup split end (he's the transfer guy the basketball coach told me was the best he's ever seen) one is holding for place kicks and hoping for garbage time and the other two are rotating JV one week and Frosh the next. Next year where will they be? tell me Swami.....
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kshep
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Post by kshep on Nov 17, 2014 11:20:00 GMT -6
Just thought I'd follow-up, since they played their final game on Saturday. The team finished the season with 1 win. He played pretty much every defensive down at DE with a few sacks here and there, a couple of forced fumbles, and returned a muffed pitch for a TD. He also moved up the chart to #2 QB. He definitely missed playing offense, and is motivated to work in the off season to win the #1 QB spot next year.
Thanks for all your advice. It definitely helped get him in the right frame of mind for the season.
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Post by footballscout on Nov 17, 2014 11:56:24 GMT -6
Thanks for all your advice. It definitely helped get him in the right frame of mind for the season. Just read something recently. "Today have to coach two generations, the athlete and the parent." Seems to fit here. And subsequently looks like the results were positive. |
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. (TOTALLY kidding)