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Post by gunandrun on Oct 5, 2007 9:43:51 GMT -6
So here is the situation. The defensive coordinator develops a detailed yet simple scouting report including the norm- tendencies, plays, players to stop etc. He provides it to the players on the Monday of the game week. During a short team film session, later that week, three players of the forty have read and studied the report. The DC pauses and looks as if someone kicked his dog. Silence deafens the meeting room. What would you do? ? Our first instinct was to use the silent treatment on the players that do not care to study and coach up those players that studied the reports. What would you do?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 5, 2007 9:48:29 GMT -6
Has anyone bothered to show the players the purpose of the scouting report? To many, it could be a lot of useless gibberish. Ex. "I am a 3 tech. I have been told I have two jobs--Don't get reached, Don't allow a jump through. Why does this matter?"
You have to show them why it matters
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Post by superpower on Oct 5, 2007 9:50:16 GMT -6
I agree with coachd5085. A coach is first and foremost a teacher. Teach the players what the scouting report is, what the purpose of it is, and how it can help them to be successful on the field.
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Post by gunandrun on Oct 5, 2007 10:04:56 GMT -6
The kids know why they are getting the report and how it is used to prepare not only as a defense but as the scout team for the week. Maybe the kids just do not care to know what they are up against??
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 5, 2007 10:15:09 GMT -6
The kids know why they are getting the report and how it is used to prepare not only as a defense but as the scout team for the week. Maybe the kids just do not care to know what they are up against?? Do they? Like I said, If I am a 5tech in an odd front scheme...Why does any of that stuff matter? I have 3 jobs--split the touble team, crush the trap, rush the passer. Why are you giving me this report coach?
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 5, 2007 10:16:18 GMT -6
Give written tests over the week on the info in the report- we give a couple every week with consequences for the number each individual missed (right now it's 15 up downs per missed question) also lets you know where you might want to spend additional time coaching something up. After all it's not what we know it's what they know that really counts Friday.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 5, 2007 10:24:04 GMT -6
I am having a similar problem with my Defense. I am the DC at a small school (dress 23 kids on varsity), and I have a scouting report with formation recognitions and responsibilities EVERY WEEK. It is not like we can afford to sit 5 starters on Defense because they didn't read the report, and we get into problems on Fridays due to the lack of reading the report.
I hand out the forms and we go through them when we watch the film of the team we are playing that week. I try to walk them through it and give an explination, but it still only gets through to about 1/2 - 3/4 of them...
(First year at this school, they went 0-30 the last 3 years...we are 1-4 this year, but haven't played up to what our coaching staff thinks we could)
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Post by coachsky on Oct 5, 2007 10:27:33 GMT -6
We do exactly what you do on Monday. Monday is film and game plan insertion in the classroom for 1 hour and 15 minutes. They get a written tendency report.
But you gotta take the next step.
We go up to the field. We walk through their formation, key plays, blocking schemes, key players to stop. How we want them to defend their key plays and adjust to shifts or motions.
I don't think you can get this done by simply handing them a piece of paper. You gotta walk it through. We have JV games Monday, so the first thing we do on Tuesday is have our JV Scout group learn their play sets so when we get to defensive group and team we can coach them up on the game plan and how to executing the strategies outlined inthe scouting report.
People learn in different ways, thats why we show them on Video, give them a written scouting report, have them grade themselves on film, do slow motion walk throughs on play and blocking schemes, have a scout team show them an accurate look at full speed. Then we evaluate whether or not they are getting it.
We are teachers, coaches, it's our responsibility to make sure they know what they are doing on Friday night. It's not their responsibility. They have to learn it and execute it to the best of their ability.
Most of our kids are locked in on Monday. They know the value of this work. When they see a certain type of formation and corresponding motion and can call out the play and then defend it, they know what if does to the other team. It lowers the other teams morale and pumps our kids up.
They get excited that they are prepared.
They also know when the other team has mixed it up. They can come to the sidelines and tells us what is different than film and the game plan. It helps us to make adjustments. A lot of times they are telling us exactly what we are hearing ion the head sets.
I think you need to take the extra steps. Kids need multiple inputs to learn, a written sheet won't cut it.
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Post by gunandrun on Oct 5, 2007 10:37:08 GMT -6
I hear what you are saying coachd5085. Sadly, only our Dline does a great job understanding their jobs and where they fit in our scheme. The 2nd level needs to know what is going on and they refuse. Coaches, testing the kids is an option.
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Post by saintrad on Oct 5, 2007 10:45:29 GMT -6
ahhh .. i would take the same approach the folks in the movie, We Are Marshall, did ..."so and so, you do know what a post is right?"
"No, coach."
"See the goal post. That's a post. Run 10 yards and then break for the post. See that flag over there?"
"Yes, coach."
"Well, that's a flag. A flag route you run ten yards then break for the flag. Got it?"
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 5, 2007 11:08:56 GMT -6
gun-run--if that is the case, then yes, I would test them..both on the WHATS and THE HOW's (as in how does this affect me)
I just know that I always felt that tendencies and such were much more valuable to the coaches...not the players. I want the players playing. I don't want my ILB thinking..ok, its 3rd and 4...what did they do...well... 29% of the time.... I want my kid thinking..guard blocks down, fill. Guard pulls, be ready to gap exchange..etc etc.
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Post by phantom on Oct 5, 2007 12:55:20 GMT -6
One little trick that we'll sometimes use is to put in a message for them. In an obscure section deep into the game plan we'll type in, "Anybody who hasn't reported seeing this message to me by Wednesday has fifty up-downs". I make a list and check it twice.
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 5, 2007 13:53:49 GMT -6
Kids don't read. They don't study football...and most don't love it as much as we do. It's a tough pill to swallow but it's true.
Anything you want them tolearn, they have to learn on the field unless you make "homework" out of it. "like, write 2 sentences from the scouting report that directly effect your position and why or do 10 gasers"
When I played, I knew every position. I studied, I rewrote my playbook.
But then you have a friend of mine played for a different HS. He still doesn't know what simple terms like Nickle, Dime, Cover 2, Stunt, down block ISO block...etc mean. He said, "I played guard and LB. Guard just blocks the guy in front of you, LB tackles the guy with the ball. Its not that hard...
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Post by silkyice on Oct 6, 2007 12:13:11 GMT -6
Norm Chow used to give a DVD powerpoint presentation for his offensive players to study. His last slide would say "If you have made it to the last slide call me at 555-1234 (or whatever his number was) and I will give you $100." In all his years of doing this at USC and winning national championships he had one kid collect the $100. It was an all-academic-american center.
OK, how hard is it for a college player at USC to watch a DVD in his dorm room or plush apartment provided by a booster (Reggie Bush). Obviously, pretty hard. My guess is that it is the same everywhere.
I believe that we as coaches should make scouting sheets. But more for us to put everything in a condensed form than for the players to read. If you want your players to know the stuff, then you have to do it on the board and on the field. The scouting sheets while you go over it on the board can be helpful.
I would also suggest that if you really want your kids to read it, keep it to about one to two pages max. I don't think that it really is helpful to draw lead out of all of the opponents twenty formations. Most everything that you on defense should be based on just a couple of keys anyways. Keep it simple.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 6, 2007 12:25:48 GMT -6
its much worse when a coaching staff ignores the scouting report lol
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Post by brophy on Oct 6, 2007 13:27:14 GMT -6
the scouting report is nothing more than another media attempt to get the same information you are preaching all week. Even if they didn't read the report, they should still know what your opponent is about just from showing up in practice, right? I mean, there is chalk talk, field walk-thru, team / group time review, scouting sheets, sending home game film, sending home cut-ups, powerpoint presentations breaking down the game plan.......... thats about a half-dozen ways to get the exact same message across.....if they still don't get it, then they are probably stupid. Point being, there is no need to get your feelings hurt if people don't think your swell book report is worth reading. YOU don't matter.......getting the information across is what is important. Do the kids know what they are going to see Friday night?
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Post by phantom on Oct 6, 2007 13:29:07 GMT -6
That is a good point. Do they know the game plan regardless of how they get the info?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 6, 2007 15:48:06 GMT -6
Give them the scouting report AFTER you've watched game film of the opponent with them. This will help them put the whole thing in a much better context.
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
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Post by crl on Oct 7, 2007 2:20:58 GMT -6
I agree with CoachSKY....I have been making what I call Mini Play-books for years and we also used these called the WINNING EDGE when I was in the States last year... we tested our players...we also updated these daily. But that was a college plan. I work it a different way and my practice sessions may be tedious...but before install I line up the offense and give them and show them the different looks and tendancy´s...what I do is make the players repeat loudly what the tendency is. I run through this with me saying The Mike always blitzes on 3rd and long, what did I say....and they repeat it. I do this in all my practices and in lets say 9 on 7 I run the situations and tendencys....and I have them repeat it again. Eventualy they get it... It is all part of preparation, film, x and o´s showing it and drilling it into their head. But here is the rub....I was told by my mentor this"Slow feet , slow hands" means confusion, the player does not understand...if it continues its the coach! Staff must know this stuff too...so I have the Staff as well as myself repeat it with the players! It maybe retard 101...but at least they know. One more thing I would like to add, REPS,,,, rep rep rep....it seems to be at one point in the practice plan reps become the most important thing...all time is based on that, no explanations, just do it! Sometimes I say f##k the time...teach it slow , tell them why and then run it. Some teams have a collective intellegence higher than others....if yours happens to be on the level of say a Sardine, then slow it up.
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Post by wildcat on Oct 7, 2007 7:28:46 GMT -6
In my experience, the kids who study the scouting reports are the kids who really don't NEED to study the scouting reports. Your smart kids...the kids with "football" sense...those are the kids who will look it over.
It's like giving extra credit...how many of you guys who are teachers give extra credit assignments and typically, the only kids who do the assignment are the kids who really don't need any extra credit?
The kids who really NEED to study the scouting reports...they never do. That's why I think that it is a lot more important to teach on the field. Most kids will learn most effectively by doing, not by reading.
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Post by brophy on Oct 7, 2007 7:39:05 GMT -6
do you guys use scouting reports as a 'crutch', as in, this is the stuff they SHOULD know, but you really don't cover it in practice
OR
Are scouting reports essentially Cliff Notes to what has already covered in practice?
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dlo
Sophomore Member
Posts: 128
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Post by dlo on Oct 7, 2007 21:00:39 GMT -6
We are doing something different this year. I give the defense a test on Tuesday. It usually has 4 simple questions regarding the opponent. Often, it includes something as simple as "What is the QBs number?" I want to know that they gave them a little bit of their time. If a kid fails the test on Tuesday, he gets ZERO reps on Team Defense. The next day, he can take another test. If he fails, he gets ZERO reps on team defense. Week one, I had 8 kids fail on Tuesday. This week, I had none.
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dlo
Sophomore Member
Posts: 128
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Post by dlo on Oct 7, 2007 21:03:40 GMT -6
brophy.....I'm sure you know that there are all types of learners. We give them the paper scouting report, go over it during film, go over it on the field, and pound it in their heads every day. It is just another teaching tool for us.
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Post by coachcoyote on Oct 7, 2007 23:54:50 GMT -6
I've done a mini report in the past hoping it will reach a few. Most of the learning takes place in film and on the field through reps, reps, reps. I've also used the question and answer, rote memory technique. Walk through, jog through, run through the necessary material. Everyone learns differently. I just hope I strike the correct source for each player.
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Post by cmow5 on Oct 27, 2007 0:21:18 GMT -6
I never had this problem before since I only been coaching for one year at the middle school level and I am the one making the scouting report for the high school, but I thought about something while I was reading these post. What about making a game out of it. Split up the team by position ie o-line,d-line,LB,RB,etc.... and then test the kids verbally and have a punishment for the last team, second to last, etc... You could even have the winning team decide and give the punishment out.
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Post by brophy on Oct 27, 2007 19:04:56 GMT -6
there are all types of learners. We give them the paper scouting report, go over it during film, go over it on the field, and pound it in their heads every day. It is just another teaching tool for us. This is the bottom line here. Get the message across by any means necessary. Don't rely on just one delivery method. The scouting report is vital, but only in context of backing up the same thing you are teaching on the field, on film, in the classroom.
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