|
|
Post by groundchuck on Nov 13, 2005 20:33:53 GMT -6
Do we have this threat yet? Can't remember. Anyway which state is tbe best for high school football? Best can be best players, best fan support, best setup for success, best playoff system. Whatever you use to determine best let's hear it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Nov 13, 2005 20:48:28 GMT -6
i really don't like threads of this type.......it is meaningless and pretty much non-debateable. how can we ever determine this? we can't. let me give you my theory and that's pretty much all i can say on this
the top teams in each state (25 or so) are all pretty much the same. there are great football players, coaches, etc. all across the country. these teams may beat each other "on even given friday". therefore, i don't think you can say so & so is the better than the other state 'cause their #4 beat the other's #8. now, some states have advantages that might make them a more viable choice as "best state" (if someone feels they must choose). states with larger populations will have an advantage due to more players to choose from. states that have athletic periods will have an advangtage due to year round training. states with quite a few major colleges will help due to the easy access of high school coaches to college help and the mere presence and "rub-off" effect of these college programs. states that have the public interest in spending money on extra-curriculars will have an advantage due to the ability to spend for greater facilities , coaches' salaries, money for clinics (both player & coaches), etc. i could go on and on with some of these things. so, by what i've mentioned we can all conclude that several states immediately come to mind as being "the best"....although i refuse to name a clear choice. yes, i'm from texas and feel we should be included in any discussion about this. we have all the mentioned "advantages" but despite this i will not say we are the best in the country. florida and california should always be included as well. personnaly, i really don't care about being named the best nor would it upset me if someone proclaimed another state to be the best.
finally, if we must pick a "winner"......we should be looking at the 2nd & 3rd tier teams (programs) in every state. how do these programs match up with their counterparts in other states? that may be a more valid indication of a states "ranking". again, though, those states with more teams and those advantages i mentioned will probably hold an advantage over many others.
well, i've rambled enough and haven't "settled" anything on this issue...........and, frankly, i don't think anyone can.........
|
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Nov 13, 2005 21:22:13 GMT -6
Actualy that is the kind of respone I was hoping someone would give. The top programs in any state would compete anywhere I agree. They are top programs. In a sense we are comparing apples to apples, but in another sense apples to oranges when you get into athletic periods and so on, facilities, salaries, and so on. But I agree there are great coaches, players, and teams in all states.
|
|
|
|
Post by airitout on Nov 13, 2005 22:19:41 GMT -6
I like the responses to the question regarding the "best" states for high school football. Certainly, there are some states where the quality of play is not to the level of some other states. I've coached high school ball in two states: one in the north and one in the south. I've seen excellent teams and excellent players in both of the states which I'll not identify. Since there is no way "prove" or "settle" in which state the "best" football is found, the question's "correct" answer remains as elusive as that perfectly-played game we each strive to coach. Best of luck to all.
|
|
|
|
Post by boblucy on Nov 13, 2005 22:47:46 GMT -6
This a really abstract subject that is really objective....However. From a state AREA SIZE stand point, how can Ohio be topped?  ?? If just the number of college teams in one smaller state is any part of this equation, Ohio is the winner-if this is any indicator. Think about it. And I will try my best to mention them all!!! Division 1A, Ohio State. Ohio University. University of Cincinnati. Toledo. Miami of Ohio. Bowling Green. 1-AA, Youngstown State. D-3, Mount Union. Marietta. Baldwin-Wallace. Oberlein. John Carroll University. I know there are more that play college football, I just can't remember them all!! Ohio is a small state, size-wise, and there are so many college teams jammed in the state it's just unreal. But this question can never really be answered.... |
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 13, 2005 23:02:30 GMT -6
Here is a site that will answer that question if you are wondering on fantacy match ups vs other teams you know I do on to show you what i am talking about calpreps.com/2005/ go to project a match up at the bottom of the page and have fun seeing how you would do against any team in the country look: at Gainesville (TX) [2005] Gainesville (TX) 24, [2005] Nevada Union (Grass Valley, CA) 20 at Nevada Union (Grass Valley, CA) [2005] Gainesville (TX) 22, [2005] Nevada Union (Grass Valley, CA) 21 at neutral site [2005] Gainesville (TX) 22, [2005] Nevada Union (Grass Valley, CA) 21 its kinda cool for out of state match ups for next year.... |
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 13, 2005 23:23:36 GMT -6
That's because aliens have taken most of the talented coaches and players to other states.
|
|
jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
|
Post by jman on Nov 15, 2005 22:01:15 GMT -6
So what is wrong with New Mexico football?
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 15, 2005 22:15:37 GMT -6
the delusion that they are the only place that knows how to play football.
Having coached in 6 different states now (including Texas), there are only 5 to 7 teams here that could compete against anyone from around the country. Onate, La Cuava, Mayfield, Clovis, Artesia, Aztec...mostly southern teams can be included in those teams.
My favorite line goes like this: "Well coach, thats a funny way to play football. You sure don't know anything about football do ya?" This is usually in response to ANY comment as to how to add to our program and schemes. Oh yeah, forgot the "well, you were coat-tailing someone on that team, and until you win on for yourself, we will do it this way."
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 16, 2005 9:36:52 GMT -6
maybe scheduling an out of state team could end the contraversy(sp) the they might find that they arn't as good as they think.
|
|
|
|
Post by tog on Nov 16, 2005 10:15:40 GMT -6
Well, they did that this year with Tyler Lee playing someone in Ohio.
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 16, 2005 11:38:05 GMT -6
with the new New Mexico Athletic Assoc. seeding system (which only they know the formula) and a strength of schedule influence, most of the larger schools (only 22 5A teams - 16 of which go to the playoffs) are weary of playing anyone from outside of New MExico.
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 16, 2005 11:40:57 GMT -6
My picks for the best football stats (in no particular order mind you):
Texas
California
Washington
Ohio
Georgia
Florida
Pennsylvania
Louisiana
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Virginia
Michigan
Honorable mention:
Oregon
Iowa
North and South Carolina
Alabama
Washington DC
New York
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Nov 16, 2005 11:55:11 GMT -6
BUT, there are 4 or 5 awesome teams here that could compete against anyone from around the country. that is one of my points. the top teams in every state could probably beat any other top team on a given night. the real "test" may be looking at the 2nd & 3rd tier teams. how would, say, nebraska's "65th" best team do against california's "65th" best.....this may be more indicative of a "best state" if there is such a thing. |
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 16, 2005 12:52:13 GMT -6
i agree huey... on any given friday night... i like that.. might have to write a coaching article with that title.
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 16, 2005 23:10:26 GMT -6
This link will give you an idea how one states team will do against another it is a cool way to play the variables try it its fun...[glow=red,2,300]http://www.calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2005/project_matchup.pl[/glow]
|
|
|
|
Post by boblucy on Nov 17, 2005 16:07:52 GMT -6
I absolutley hate this. High school basketball is no longer high school basketball, teams travel all over the country to play games. Ridiculous. I know De La Salle went to Hawaii in 2002, but they were looking for the best competition that would play them. Then they hosted Evangel Christian from Louisiana in 2003, but again, they were challenging people to end their winning streak. That was a whole different situation. Now, high school basketball is way out of control. I hope high school football keeps to normal for the kids' sake. I know there are sometimes adults who have big egos and that leads to some crazy scheduling with other states powerhouse teams(see 2003 Evangel Christian, the out of control adults there ruined those poor kids by scheduling De La Salle, Rockhurst of Kansas City, Hoover of Alabama and Longview of Texas along with their normal murderous Louisiana 5-A schedule, all in one season, it would have worked out better if John David Booty has stuck around for his senior year-he enrolled early at USC- now he is Matt Leinart's backup)
In 1999 Fox Sports wanted to start some kind of ludacris "high school football tournament"!!!! All about the money. That was crazy and I'm glad nobody(except John McKissick of South Carolina) went along with this idiocy from Fox......
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 17, 2005 18:28:50 GMT -6
I think the problem with teams traveling is that they are not sure what the level of competition is kids will have fun traveling but at the same time if coaches don't research the teams that they are gonna play then they will get their butts hammered. A friend of mine went to Gainsville, TX to play a team and got destroyed. He did a lousy job in his prep, he was out of his league. His kids had a blast going though. Next yr he goes to Alaska to play another friends team. He will get destroyed again.
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 17, 2005 23:26:00 GMT -6
No its true, he thought he could beat the team but he was shut out he prepared for what he felt he would be able to accomplish but the team he played has been state champs for 3 yrs or so he has never been in the playoffs. He is stuck on stupid sometimes heck hes been to Hawaii a couple times and lost also. So not smart is pretty much the story he does ok but I could coach against him and win also. All he runs is a pro set, and a 4-4 I keep trying to go help him out but finances hinder that. Don't get me wrong he is a good guy and has been coaching a bit longer than me but he is very predictable.
|
|
|
|
Post by boblucy on Nov 18, 2005 6:58:56 GMT -6
My problem with all of the out of state traveling for high school football is that it is ruining the whole concept of people's view of "high school football". When I read the USA Today's "Top 25" high school basketball list each week, it's just them trying to tell the readers who they think the top 25 high school basketball teams in the country are. Its a joke. They almost all recruit. Most of these teams travel all over the country. These "private prep schools" are always near the top and I know of nobody who reads these rankings and takes them seriously. I don't want high school football to turn into that. Like I said, its the adults who have to remain adults here and schedule games that are right for their kids. To keep high school football real, and to keep its integrity, out of state travel should be a once in a while thing........
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 18, 2005 17:17:44 GMT -6
I like the idea of team travel it has got to be a blast traveling to another state to play ball, when I played in HS we didn't play out of state but I moved alot so I got to play in a couple different states as a kid and i did really well
|
|
|
|
Post by boblucy on Nov 18, 2005 18:30:56 GMT -6
Most people view high school football as pure. Pure in terms of what it really is, high school football. I would hate to see enough adults with dollar signs in their eyes to try and totally commercialize high school football to the point where it's on ESPN every week. True, it's not perfect, there is steriod use, rampant fan bases who lose perspective, but its still recognizable to those 25 years from their last high school game. The second people start thinking high school football at its top levels in America, is the same thing as high school basketball in America, then the sport is in trouble. And yes, The USA Today basketball rankings are not perfect, but it's close to being so. Private Academies play all over the country, their school administrators see the basketball program as a vehicle to showcase their school, even if it means a very abnormal life for some of these "student-athletes"....There are high school football teams out there with long winning streaks, should they be FORCED to leave their state to play greater competiton?? De La Salle was never forced to leave California to take on challengers to knock off their 151 game winning streak. They took on everyone but the New England Patriots!! A team from Washington finally beat them. Whatever happened to the days of "conference football" Playing teams in your area and your size??? It's going quick, as school administrators allow teams to travel all over creation to play whoever. I don't think out of state travel is bad when its once a year. Call me old fashioned but...... |
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 18, 2005 21:06:15 GMT -6
kw-
would your team be willing to come to travel to New Mexico for a game?
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 18, 2005 22:15:35 GMT -6
jman-
are you with Onate? now, there is one of the few teams here that can compete with anyone.
All I know is from the few southern NM teams, the northern teams generally dont compare. I would have to agree to that after having survived my first season in NM. It could just be that the stress of moving from the offensive side of the ball to the defensive side may cloud perceptions some, but it could also be that the southern teams have an influx of texas talent that the northern teams dont get. i am hoping to see either Onate, Mayfield, or Clovis in the championship game to see some real football.
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 18, 2005 22:27:03 GMT -6
cool....what JUCO are you coaching at?
|
|
|
|
Post by carson101 on Nov 19, 2005 0:49:02 GMT -6
I have a team that might be interested, I'll let him know. E-mail me so I can get some info from you my E-mail is carson101@hotmail.com
|
|
jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
|
Post by jman on Nov 22, 2005 22:47:10 GMT -6
saintrad
yes to answer your question. How can you be so perceptive? As far as that Texas influence in S. NM., not so. We do not have anyone from Texas on our team. In fact, it is the other way around. S.NM loses tallent to Texas. The difference between Northern NM and Southern NM is commitment. Southern communities are more commited to seeing there programs be successful than the north. In other words, they put there money where there mouth is. The north continually has more D-1 tallent every year, yet the south tends to dominate H.S. football.
|
|
jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
|
Post by jman on Nov 22, 2005 22:57:21 GMT -6
saintrad
sounds as if you are in a bad place. I promise that not all the coaches in this state are that way. You dont coach for the 'old man' do you.
Also, when you are talking about how few schools that could compete elsewhere, remember we do only have 22 5A schools. That does not give us a large pool to draw from.
|
|
|
|
Post by saintrad on Nov 22, 2005 23:07:49 GMT -6
which old man are you talking about jman?
I agree whole heartedly with you on the south putting its resources to good use for its football teams. Would love to meet up with you at either the State or UNM coaches clinic.
|
|
?? If just the number of college teams in one smaller state is any part of this equation, Ohio is the winner-if this is any indicator. Think about it. And I will try my best to mention them all!!! Division 1A, Ohio State. Ohio University. University of Cincinnati. Toledo. Miami of Ohio. Bowling Green. 
