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Post by chris5ft2 on Apr 19, 2007 11:50:02 GMT -6
This topic covers both offence and defence, so I thought I'd stick it in this board!
I was wondering how most defensive coaches would approach defending the below formation if a team was using it as their base set. it is just I Right, but with a Wing back 1x1 off the tackle. The role of the Wing would be exactly the same as a Tight End, but with more motion, and possibly handoffs.
If a defence has an outside shading End, would they put him outside the O-Tackle or the Wing? (if a team was using this all day)
X----------------T-G-C-G-T----------------Z ----------------------Q------Y-------------- ----------------------F---------------------- ----------------------H----------------------
Also, what plays could an offense run to attack the strong side with: A - The End over the O-Tackle B - The End over the Wing
Hope you guys can help!
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 19, 2007 12:30:07 GMT -6
We run this formation a lot. We will run Iso or Toss strong, and basically we will block the DE down if he is inside, kick him out with the FB if he is outside (WB will release to next level defender).
We play our DEs inside shade of the TE anyway, so I would put him in. I would think that treating the OT as the EMLOS and lining up outside of him (regardless of the location of the wing) would be the way to go. To much space if he is outside (n/a if you adjust DL over to strength- like 3 strong 1 weak; we do not do this).
Though we run (a version of) this, I do think the WB block down is tougher to execute because of the wing's alignment. The wing is also generally smaller than a TE (that's been the case for us most of the time). Also if the DE is outside, it sets up well for an easy block by the OT, then the C/G can zone/double on the DT (if the DT is in a 3, then there is still a nice area for the OT to block down and the OG to kick out the DE) and they can run a power with 2 backs leading through B gap (we do this), in addition to creating a bubble for C-gap/off-tackle plays.
Even if we played the DE in a 9, I would still reduce to the OT and have him aware of a crack by the wing. Not knowing your scheme/rules I'm just going by what I would do. If he's inside you need to have some secondary support to the outside (we usually play hard corners, so that is why we do this).
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Post by kloranc on Apr 19, 2007 14:37:14 GMT -6
Play the OT as the emol, and tighten up your force player on the wing. Your force player will probably be reading the wing anyway. If the wing blocks down, the force player treats it like a crack replace situation and steps up to fill. I agree with blutarksky that power will hurt you if you play your end as a 9.
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Post by chris5ft2 on Apr 19, 2007 15:09:45 GMT -6
Thanks for the input guys, although I'm actually looking at this more from the perspective of using it on offence, rather than stopping it! IE: What are defenses likely to do against it, and how can I then attack them?
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Post by coachmoore42 on Apr 19, 2007 15:35:04 GMT -6
We used this against a team that flipped their personnel to the strong side. We just sent the Y in motion to change the strong side. It drove their coach crazy. We never did any of the handoffs, just blocking and pass routes. It was a league championship game and we didn't want to get away from what had worked all year, just wanted to throw a wrench into their plans.
As far as what we liked to run out of it, it made the hook block on the sweep much easier to execute so that play was effective. Our TE was already more of a receiver type, so the seam route off of the motion was also a great call.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 19, 2007 23:06:25 GMT -6
There are many advantages to running this set. A main advantage could be a disadvantage- there is so much you can do it is easy to run too many plays/series out of it.
Coachmoore has some good ideas on it... as for us, we don't throw much. We do it (plus a nasty slot) to mess with the DE.
Usually we see the DE inside the Wing, so we have our wing block down a lot. If he is outside, outside veer (or anything with that blocking) is good.
When he is inside, we down block with the Wing, kickout with the FB, man block with the OT, kickout with the guard and read him on veer. If the DE is skittish... we'll have a field day. If he is a stud, we feel we can neutralize his aggressiveness by offering so many variables (and if both DE are like this... double slot is a good set too).
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Post by spreadattack on Apr 20, 2007 11:20:24 GMT -6
Does anyone use the wing to take handoffs (or option or anything along those lines?). Would be curious what misdirection you guys use. You could run a kind of quasi-spin/double-slot style O with this set.
If you were fancy you could motion the I-back out to one side and run the veer with the wingback as your pitch man.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 20, 2007 12:43:18 GMT -6
Does anyone use the wing to take handoffs (or option or anything along those lines?).
We have had him as the pitch on option. We also have 2 WB counters, and even run the Wing as our 2nd back on Belly... a lot of stuff available from that formation... my problem was always one of doing too much. On the plus side you can adapt well to personnel from year to year and keep the same set(s), but emphasize certain plays more than others.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Apr 23, 2007 7:47:13 GMT -6
If a defence has an outside shading End, would they put him outside the O-Tackle or the Wing? (if a team was using this all day) X----------------T-G-C-G-T----------------Z ----------------------Q------Y-------------- ----------------------F---------------------- ----------------------H---------------------- Also, what plays could an offense run to attack the strong side with: A - The End over the O-Tackle B - The End over the Wing Hope you guys can help! Chris: Where do you coach in the UK? This is pretty radical stuff by Britball standards... ;D ;D First off, you need to be prepared for the End to align over the Slotback (wings are outside ends, slots inside them), between the Slot and the OT, or over the OT. As far as playcalling goes, if you can hook the End, run outside; if you can't, kick him out and run off-tackle. How you choose to do these things will depend inter alia on what kind of player you have at the Slot position. If he's a TE-type H back, the power off-tackle choice is an excellent one; if he's a smaller receiver/running back type, then you may need more misdirection to get the job done. Since it sounds as though you are going the TE/H-back route, I would suggest you look at Belly series football from your Swinging Slot-I offense...The H-back/Slot can do a great deal of damage by blocking in the C gap or countering back away from the Belly series on a Tackle Trap-type play.
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Post by chris5ft2 on Apr 23, 2007 11:00:35 GMT -6
Ted,
I'm currently coaching at the Anglia Ruskin Phantoms in the UK's, college league, and have just been given a promotion to Offensive Co-Ordinator. I'm currently having a massive researching binge at the moment into all things offence!
Last year we ran Wishbone option with 2 recievers. The running game served us ok, but the formation did nothing for our passing game. We also had trouble towards the end of the year with finding enough running backs (we had a few guys playing RB/LB). My hope is that this formation will allow us keep running a similar offence to last year, but with one featured tailback, and more passing options.
I do have 1 particular player in mind who, like you say, is a Tight End/H-type guy. As for backups, I will probably look at 2/3 other guys of varied skills (a good runner, a good reciever and a good blocker)
Thanks for the advice coach, you've given me some more food for thought!
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Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
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Post by Shotgun1 on Apr 23, 2007 21:00:17 GMT -6
Counter Trey to the Y would be nice out of this set as well as the tackle trap to the Y or H. AS Ted said above much depends on how your personnel can handle the DE based on his technique. Take what they give you!
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Post by chris5ft2 on Apr 27, 2007 4:59:12 GMT -6
What blocking rules would you guys use for running Belly to the Playside out of this formation? I read Lochness's (excellent) article about the Belly series, but in it he mentions getting the Tight-End to block the D-End away from the C gap. How could i achieve the same kind of thing in this formation?
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Post by tog on Apr 27, 2007 5:39:47 GMT -6
What blocking rules would you guys use for running Belly to the Playside out of this formation? I read Lochness's (excellent) article about the Belly series, but in it he mentions getting the Tight-End to block the D-End away from the C gap. How could i achieve the same kind of thing in this formation? you could fold it with the ot blocking out and the slot slamming on the linebacker just a terminology thing here, but generally a wing is an offset back outside of a TE a slot is an offset back outside of an OT but it's just terminology i think you are on to something, and blutarsky is right, be carefull, make sure the things you are adding with this have carryover to each other just by moving that guy back from a TE to a slot, you can do a TON more things with him
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