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Post by wingt74 on Aug 6, 2007 11:10:22 GMT -6
www.break.com/index/incredibly-hard-football-hit.htmlLegal? Illegal? Appears the shoulder primarily made contact, so I think it was legal. Didn't seem to be any flag either. Also, hard hit like this, and your opponent isn't getting up...is it ok to celebrate? (EDIT: Looking some more...I dunno, that looked like helmet to helmet...but when you're running that fast, can you really make sure your helmet does not hit your opponents? If the only way to make sure your helmet doesn't make helmet-to-helmet contact, you have to slow down...then, what do we teach our kids?)
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Post by los on Aug 6, 2007 11:55:59 GMT -6
I love a great hit much as the next guy, but this is a "vintage old school" Jack Tatum special here! Probably illegal as heck, nowdays (in fed rules anyhow) but hard to tell, kinda blurry? Thing about it is, the kid doing the tackling seemed to lower his head also, didn't try to check up or lock up and could have been the one who didn't get up? Had the other kid not bobbled the ball, the kid flying in there like a torpedo would have probably missed completely? Far as kids celebrating with each other after a big hit! Don't we coaches celebrate this also? Probably seems kinda distasteful to the average fan but thats football, no?
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Post by wingt74 on Aug 6, 2007 12:22:31 GMT -6
I love a great hit much as the next guy, but this is a "vintage old school" Jack Tatum special here! Probably illegal as heck, nowdays (in fed rules anyhow)? Thing about it is, the kid doing the tackling seemed to lower his head also, didn't try to check up or lock up and could have been the one who didn't get up? Had the other kid not bobbled the ball, the kid flying in there like a torpedo, would have probably missed completely? Far as kids celebrating with each other after a big hit! Don't we coaches celebrate this also? Probably seems kinda distasteful to the average fan but thats football, no? Yeah, a few years ago, I would more than agree with everything you said. But with 6 years coaching under my belt, I worry about things like crippling hits now. As a coach, I would praise the hitters aggression, but explain the dangers of such a hit. But I'm not even sure how to "correct" this so it is safe. Videos like this keep parents from enrolling their kids in football too...maybe I'm getting soft. Like I said, few years ago, I wouldn't even be thinking about this |
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Post by coachaaron on Aug 6, 2007 12:37:35 GMT -6
That was good clean football. The kid who dished out the hit did lower his shoulders and did not hit the receiver with the top of his helmet. Agreed, that it is nearly impossible for a player running full speed at another player running full speed, to think at the last fractions of a second before the collision, "OK, I have to be sure to hit this player in exactly the right way . . . ".
If you ask me, football is a violent collision sport and knocking the snot out of another player (in a legal fashion) is a good play. The whole defenseless receiver rule is ridiculous . .. a defensive player making good contact on a receiver just as he touches the ball is a great play. Penalizing that is like throwing a flag on receiver because he beat a DB by 4 steps for a TD, " Sorry son, you're playing too well, that's a penalty."
Also, aren't many offensive plays designed to catch a defensive player in a defenseless position and nail him with an angle block (crack backs, traps, counter plays, reverse, wall returns, etc). If it is a penalty to hit an offensive player in defenseless position, than those offensive plays should also be illegal.
Bottom line . . .football is a violent sport and some players are going to get hurt. The risk is part of what makes football a great sport. Let them play.
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Post by los on Aug 6, 2007 12:40:16 GMT -6
I'm with ya there wing, might not have said it just right in the 1st post but, #1.- great hit! #2.- terrible form tackle- (dangerous for both players, even if the tackler used his shoulder to make most of the contact, his dang head was down several steps before the contact, perfect alignment to hurt yourself) & had the kid caught it clean, one quick move, he missed the world #3.- celebration=  undecided, but i see kids do that all the time. |
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Post by los on Aug 7, 2007 18:56:08 GMT -6
OK, watched this 1000 more times and I'm sticking with my first three thoughts or opinions, and have added a fourth one. #4= The heck with hitting the semi-helpless reciever, lets intercept the tipped pass and run it back for a T.D. lol! I like this idea the most.
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Post by stackattack on Aug 7, 2007 19:16:29 GMT -6
This thread made me remember a penalty called against us last year. The QB threw a quick out the TE who ran to the sideline and turned it up. As he was running down the sideline, my safety got to him and had him wrapped up along the sideline, still in play, and fully standing when my the corner came up and absolutely laid a massive shot on the Receiver sending him into his teammates on the sideline. The Ref threw the flag and all of us just assumed the safety had grabbed a facemask while tackling him....NO! The ref said the corner and I quote "Hit him too hard!!!!" Our coaches went nuts, afterall we thought we were playing football and anyone with the ball who is still in-bounds and on both feet was open game to be hit.  |
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Post by coachcb on Aug 8, 2007 12:09:39 GMT -6
Great hit, but the kid needs to keep his head up.....
We had a safety last year that absolutely laid people out- great form tackler; head up, good pop and drive through the ball carrier.
In the league title game last year, he was laying hits on ball carriers like you wouldn't believe; LOUD HITS!! Funny thing was, the official pulled me aside and told me that he was going to flag the kid for unnecessary roughness because of the hits....I asked him if he saw the kid lead with his head once; he said he hadn't. So I ASKED HIM HOW IN THE HELL HE COULD FLAG US!!
His response:
"He's hitting the ball carrier too hard coach"
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Post by fbairattack on Aug 8, 2007 22:09:48 GMT -6
1. great hit
2. terrible "tackle" (in the form sense)
3. celebrate somewhere not right over your unconcious opponent
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Post by wingman on Aug 9, 2007 0:15:43 GMT -6
Stupidest rule in football. How can you block or tackle correctly without using your head. We all talk around it but know you have to do it.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Aug 9, 2007 5:20:06 GMT -6
Stupidest rule in football. How can you block or tackle correctly without using your head. We all talk around it but know you have to do it. I think the rule is so that players don't hit with the crown or screws of the helmet. Perfect tackling form, IMO, brings more force from the chest or shoulder (think shoulder pads) than from the head/helmet. Yeah the facemask makes some contact, but the hit should come from shooting the arms and contact with the shoulder pads. If the force comes from the helmet, it is not only illegal, but dangerous. The hit in the video is likely legal from my POV because it seems as though he hit him with his right shoulder, not his helmet. Notice that he fell away from the receiver slightly, that makes be believe he did not hit him perfectly straight (instead, he used the shoulder). If my POV is correct (it's really hard to be completely sure), then the only rule violation could be that he launched himself at the receiver. That would be spearing, which is illegal. But I don't see his feet come off of the ground. Final ruling from me...legal hit. QB laid the receiver out to dry and the LBer made them regret it. As far as the celebration, I don't see anyone on the defense do more than take a quick look at the down player. How could anyone expect a player and his teammates to not celebrate such a devastating hit? Nothing wrong there either IMO. |
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Post by los on Aug 9, 2007 21:59:38 GMT -6
Thats a great point about the different tackling techniques coach moore, whether you use chest to chest or shoulder tackling, occasionally the face mask will collide with something but like you said, long as you don't lead with it your probably good. This is just my opinion of course, and like a lot of things, everyones got one, lol! But this video showed a problem, i've personally struggled with the times I tried to teach shoulder tackling over the years(not much by the way), a lot of guys wanted to drop that head just before impact. They still made contact with their pads most of the time but the tendency was there that when the pads drop the head dropped, this made me re-think the deal and go entirely to chest to chest type tackling, so a good tackle to me now, would look more like coach moores kid in the middle of his picture there, showing the 4 kids tackling the rb! Whether in the open field(like on the film) or up inside! Just seemed a safer technique and was easier for me to teach(especially kids who never played football before), you still get low leverage by dropping your butt, can still attack and drive up and thru the ball carrier, its way easier to lock up, seems to naturally keep the head and eyes up a little easier, and now since our head is up, we can "see" that tipped ball and make a play on it? Flying in there out of control, for the big hit looks great on highlight films the few times you actually succeed, but realistically you're gonna miss most of them? Just my take on it.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 10, 2007 12:16:21 GMT -6
We're teaching the DL this year to make initial contact with their face mask. FEET, FACE, STRIKE!!!
We'll inevitably catch some crap for it, but as long as they're not leading with the top of the helmet or the screws, then it's legal.
The people that are complaining about this stuff never played a down of football in their lives. If the had, they'd know that contact with the face mask is fine. What's next- playing without helmets.....
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Post by los on Aug 10, 2007 20:14:26 GMT -6
Naw cb, thats already been done, lol! They started off with no helmets and the guys just grew a big mop of hair for some protection (aka really thick beatles haircut, check out the old sewannee(sp.) team on amikells posts), but deaths from head trauma and other things during games was an issue back then, then came leather helmets, then the more modern helmet but still no facemask and webbed straps in the top rather than padding, ps= ask hawke about playing with these, lol! I think once the cushioned/padded multi bar modern helmets came in style, guys figured out how they could use it as a weapon(hopefully giving your opponent worse than you got?), along with the shoulder pads, using your arms like a club upside someones head (like a clothesline tackle or a head slap on the line), leg whipping, forearms under the chin, cutting anywhere on the field, even on crackback blocks, etc. Some of us older guys played at a time when much of this was still a legal part of the game! Is the game safer now with all the new rule changes? I honestly don't know, but I hope so! Also, for a quick history lesson and to plug Amik's old school, lol, the sewannee teams were some "bad dudes", back in the day they dominated all the georgia's, ga. techs, auburns, etc.. of the old southern conference, or whats now the SEC! Sorry for rambling guys!
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undecided, but i see kids do that all the time. 
