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Post by coachpatrick on Nov 24, 2007 22:09:18 GMT -6
I want to know you coaches opinon whats the best opperating your offense from the gun or center. I like both i feel you can do more from under center but some people feel that being in the gun you still can run the ball and also have a better passing game cause your qb is away from immediate pressure but if you think about it coming from under center and being in the gun are the same right because you still have to wait on routes to develop what you guys think
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Post by khalfie on Nov 24, 2007 22:15:57 GMT -6
I believe this is mostly a conversation on the strength of your o-line...
If they can adequately protect, its better to be under center... if they can't get you some room.
However, QB vision is another component to take into account.
We are shotgun
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Post by wildcat on Nov 24, 2007 22:37:38 GMT -6
Short answer...you probably need to be able to do both based on down, distance, formation, personnal, etc, etc...
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Post by khalfie on Nov 24, 2007 22:41:56 GMT -6
Short answer...you probably need to be able to do both based on down, distance, formation, personnal, etc, etc... I agree... but disagree... I've found the hardest thing to do... is switch between the two... inevitably, we'd get a bad exchange... hence we've gone straight SG... just because I'm afraid of that one turnover... we give the ball up entirely too much anyway... Even our QB sneaks are SG... |
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Post by coachorr on Nov 25, 2007 0:32:00 GMT -6
The problem with the gun and this is just my opinion and I realize every situation is different, but what play is going to give you 2-3 yards when you go from the gun. I know everyone has an answer for this and I have seen it all, but I am just not buying it. HS football, especially when you do not have college level players is about moving the chains and scoring points.
Conversely, I agree with the Dirk Koetter mentality. "Why work hard to get three yards when you can work hard to get twenty".
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Post by fbdoc on Nov 25, 2007 12:21:04 GMT -6
I agree with khalfie on this one - it really depends on YOUR personnel. And while Dirk Koetter has had some success ... I don't know if he's the best endorsement of a scheme - more games are won or lost by 3 yards than they are by 20.  |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 25, 2007 12:32:44 GMT -6
The problem with the gun and this is just my opinion and I realize every situation is different, but what play is going to give you 2-3 yards when you go from the gun. I know everyone has an answer for this and I have seen it all, but I am just not buying it. HS football, especially when you do not have college level players is about moving the chains and scoring points. Conversely, I agree with the Dirk Koetter mentality. "Why work hard to get three yards when you can work hard to get twenty". Florida type QB power plays out of the gun...that's how you get three yards. |
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Post by airitout616 on Nov 25, 2007 12:52:03 GMT -6
To me the gun is safer then under center we were 100% gun last year. If you fumble a snap its better to be in the gun at least you have 5 yards to get on top of it unlike under center you have a 50/50 chance saw many games lost this way in the high school game. Also you CAN run the ball just fine in the gun saying you cant run the football just as good as under is a joke.
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Post by tog on Nov 25, 2007 14:14:09 GMT -6
we have very limited under center package
other than that, we are all gun, and like to be becuase it allows us to use the qb as a runner more effectively than can be done under center
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Post by coachorr on Nov 25, 2007 15:39:38 GMT -6
Tog, are you doing much with the Pistol. Now, that is a set of formations and alignments that really gives the Back good vision and good blocking.
I remember you saying that you were considering some Outside veer with it. DId you do that and how did it work for you?
Great article on Gun Jets by the way.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Nov 25, 2007 15:45:06 GMT -6
I like under center simply because thats what we know. Our timing on passes are really based on the 3rd step of our QB. However, we do both. Gun is pretty effective if your going a little deeper. I think it buys you a little more time. But if you can't block a defense for a 3 step pass...your screwed..weather your in gun or under. Our QB's like Gun, as a line coach..i don't really care. Each has its strength. I like playaction from under center though.
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Post by tog on Nov 25, 2007 16:53:46 GMT -6
Tog, are you doing much with the Pistol. Now, that is a set of formations and alignments that really gives the Back good vision and good blocking. I remember you saying that you were considering some Outside veer with it. DId you do that and how did it work for you? Great article on Gun Jets by the way. thanks we just run isv we dont use te's so osv wouldn't be an option no pun intened we used a ton of pistol this year |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Nov 25, 2007 17:32:41 GMT -6
To me the gun is safer then under center we were 100% gun last year. If you fumble a snap its better to be in the gun at least you have 5 yards to get on top of it unlike under center you have a 50/50 chance saw many games lost this way in the high school game. Also you CAN run the ball just fine in the gun saying you cant run the football just as good as under is a joke.
This might be a bit of a digression, but at our state championship games, we have a coaches assoc. clinic. At the "coaches social", I was talking at a table with a range of coaches from small school to large- it was brought up by someone "who runs more shotgun than they dreamed they ever would have 10 years ago"? 10 years ago we started doing it... always had a worry about the snap, limitations, etc.
Now we are under center more than we are in gun (this year anyway- end of the year we were about 60-40), and we are a 90% run team... but I think going to a gun... spread gun, pistol, single wing variation, wildcat, etc. gives you a lot if you have a QB who could double as a TB, which is why we do it.
I also noticed (maybe I was looking for it), the number of bad C-QB exchanges under center in our championship games here. We've had some bad exchanges in gun (we don't have many... maybe 2 in gun 1 under C all season) , but, like air said, we seem to have a better ability to do something with the play from the gun.
Finally, we had a freshman QB this year who occasionally was tangled up with a guard. I saw this happen in the final championship game here Class B (4A)... in overtime... on 4th down. The NT must have been a wrestler... he tripped up the QB on a 4th and 3 and that play ended the game.
Each has its strength. I like playaction from under center though.
For us trap seems to hit quicker from under C... and toss (superpower) seems better from under C, though we have experimented with it from gun... and I do like it.
I'm not ready to completely give up our under center package (there are about 4 plays I can not live without in it). But I imagine we will be in gun more and more.
One other advantage I see to being in a gun as opposed to center- if the QB (or for us... tailback) goes down- you do not have to spend any time on exchanges with the new guy.
but what play is going to give you 2-3 yards when you go from the gun
We run wedge from it... in fact, our whole offense is built around ground-pounding, boring ball control. Most of our plays are designed primarily to get us 3-4 yds. I guess I have gone to thinking in these terms: The guy who receives the snap is the TB (some call him QB) and the guy who passes it back to him is the quarterback (but we call him Center on our line up card).
Anyway... just some thoughts that I NEVER would have even entertained 10 years ago.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Nov 26, 2007 4:39:40 GMT -6
I want to know you coaches opinon whats the best opperating your offense from the gun or center. I have a slightly different view of the question (wow, there's a surprise...) From under center I want to run a series-based offense that takes maximum advantage of that format -- quick traps to the FB, fast and deceptive speed sweep series, and play-action passing after decisive run fakes by a pivoting QB. That's how I designed my Wild Bunch attack. From a direct snap system, I want to run a series-based offense that takes maximum advantage of that format. Power running with an extra blocker, outstanding deception with full-spin, half-spin and buck lateral play series, and passing with the passer already set up and ready to throw the ball as soon as it arrives. Here I'm looking at a single wing attack along the lines of the half-spin counter series that Dr. John Ward runs at Union HS in Clinton, North Carolina, and/or the modern "A" formation (no, not the A-11) with its half-spin sweep series. In other words, I want more from my shotgun running game than zone read, dart & QB draw. And in general, I'm less concerned with lining up under center or in the gun than I am with what the system includes with each method, and how the pieces interlock... |
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