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Post by flexspread on Feb 19, 2008 11:14:31 GMT -6
I was wondering how many of you have athletes at your school who choose to "focus" on basketball year round and what you do, other than possibly run the spread, to get them on board. I've had a lot of kids say they don't want to get hurt before basketball.
I was told at one time injuries per capita was higher in basketball (most likely due to smaller number of players on a basketball team, if you have two sprained ankles out of 20 kids, then you have a ratio of 1:10, etc.). Does anyone know if this is true?
I have tried explaining that some of the top athletes play multiple sports, especially at a small school. Look at Pryor, the QB from PA. He is the #1 FB recruit and top 50 BB recruit. Who else that plays in the NBA played HS FB, and what position did they play? I may try to use this to talk kids into playing. Thanks.
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Post by hawkfan on Feb 19, 2008 11:23:12 GMT -6
I don't have any facts to back up this claim, but I bet the percentage of guards (and maybe smaller forwards) that DIDN'T play HS FB would be pretty small. For example, I remember watching a video of Allen Iverson on Youtube or some other site like that. He was a HS QB, and was a beast running with the ball.
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Post by flexspread on Feb 19, 2008 11:27:25 GMT -6
Exactly, it's things like this I want to be able to tell them. Anyone else that you guys know of?
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 19, 2008 11:46:30 GMT -6
I believe Allen Iverson was a complete stud on the football field. YouTube him. I think his high school highlights are all over the place.
We fought this a bit. I don't give up on this issue, but I know that I wouldn't want a lot of the bball players at our school on the football team. Too soft.
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Post by superpower on Feb 19, 2008 11:46:57 GMT -6
The first link is Iverson and the second is Lebron James, both playing high school football.
I think that the kids who tell you that they want to focus on basketball really aren't interested in giving the necessary effort, commitment, and sacrifice to your football team; and the basketball excuse is easier for them than saying that they aren't interested in playing football. I don't spend time worrying about them. I make contact and tell him that we would like to have him out for football, and I have the fb players encourage him. That is about it for me.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 19, 2008 11:48:40 GMT -6
I believeAllen Iverson was a football player of the year in Virginia as well as Mr Basketball.
Randy Moss was a heckuva HS hoops player.
I also remember reading somewhere/seeing a pic of LeBron James playing TE or something like that in HS.
I have only known one kid who toldme he was not going to play football to concentrate on hoops that actually did anything in the fall to get ready for basketball. He would be in the auxilary gym shooting or conditioning 3-4 times a week after school until we got done with football practice. But for him there are a dozen more who are just blowing smoke.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 19, 2008 13:38:55 GMT -6
Tony Gwynn, the trifecta baseball, football, basketball. If I remember correctly, he was drafted in each.
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Post by coachcathey on Feb 19, 2008 13:45:02 GMT -6
Dave Winfield was drafted in all three sports.
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Post by CoachBorrelli on Feb 19, 2008 14:04:58 GMT -6
This is a problem everywhere. Too many athletes are specializing. Better play year round Basketball if you want to make the team. Shame
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Post by pegleg on Feb 19, 2008 18:50:37 GMT -6
have had a few we coaxed outta the gym. one had never played football ever. i had to put his pads in his pants the first day of practice. he got a 4 year ride to a small school, after playing 12 games in his whole life.
two things i always tell them when i'm working on them.
#1 - in d1 football alone there are 85x110=9350 schollies; d1 basketball 13x150=1950 schollies. roughly 5x more football schollies than basketball, and thats what every kid thinks he's gonna get.
#2 - to piggy back on #1, there are a million 6' guys out there who think they can play basketball, and they may be right. however at 6', you limit what you can do on the court and most hs kids can't do it well enough for a basketball ride. but if you are 6', you can play any skill position and play it well. thereby increasing your chances at a football ride. or if you are 6'5 230 lbs hs post, you will never play basketball after hs. but your chances of playing de or te in college are really good.
bottom line, you have to work on them starting as freshmen and hammer them all the time with the stats. you will get some and some you won't.
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Post by mwpilots on Feb 19, 2008 21:00:07 GMT -6
Mateen Cleaves (Michigan State) was an outstanding QB in high school.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 19, 2008 21:41:27 GMT -6
The scholarship is a nice angle, BUT, if the kid is "working for a scholarship"....well, chances are he doesn't have a shot. That is not the mindset of a scholarship athlete. A scholarship athlete is working to IMPROVE and to WIN, not to "get a scholarship".
I have found that baseball is much worse than basketball in the amount of kids who "specialize" to get the scholarship (that doesn't exist)
That said, I do think it is a bit of a disservice to the kids to try and say "HEY LOOK" _______________ (Iverson, Lebron, Winnfield, Ronald Curry etc ) all were multi sport athletes, so you can do it too....because the odds of one of the kids that we are coaching being as athletically gifted (run, jump, throw, anticipate, brain processing speed, kinesthetic sense, hand eye coodination, explosiveness, pride, etc. ) as any of those guys is so minute.
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Post by coachcoyote on Feb 20, 2008 1:17:05 GMT -6
Talk to them,and offer the opportunity to join the program. Have the Assistant Coaches do the same thing. Then have the playersw go one on one with them. If they don't want to join, you've only lost some hot air.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 20, 2008 2:15:57 GMT -6
Many kids who I see play only basketball are weak physically and mentally. It just seems as if these kids don't understand how to play on a "team" nor to compete and I mean compete, not just jack up some bad shots. EVERY guard I have ever seen not play football, struggles BIG TIME with weakside boards and the converse is true for those who do play football.
Coach 5085, very well stated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2008 17:40:26 GMT -6
I think regardless of what system one runs, we always want better athletes on the team. If there was a basketball player I really wanted out on the team, I would highly compliment his physical skills and then tell him how those would translate to football. Then, have the kids talk to him and have them do most of the grunt work to get him out. I feel his peers will have more influence than a coach would.
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Post by bulldogoption on Feb 20, 2008 20:40:59 GMT -6
Football = 11 spots, two platoon system 22 spots Basketball = 5 spots, maybe 7-8 The above argument MAY work for a kid who you know is #12 on the hoops depth chart. I had a kid who broke his leg pretty badly as a soph during week 2 of football. His rehab pushed well into basketball. He got gunshy, as he says basketball was his first love (which is fine by me for a kid to say that as long as they still play football). Didn't play as a junior, and we could have really used him. He would have had a starting spot as a LB or OL. Waited for basketball and sat is butt on the bench the entire year. I could have told him that, but of course that wouldn't be nice to squash his dreams. I did tell him he would get playing time in football, but he didn't see the connection I was trying to make (you're never gonna touch the floor in hoops). Maybe he'll wise up next season...........he could be a contributor. And the kicker is that he was really starting to come into his own and make a name for himself in football before he broke his leg. I felt bad for the kid. Gotta love kids eh........
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Post by emole123 on Feb 20, 2008 22:21:29 GMT -6
In terms of injury rates for sports:
Football: 0.10 per 100 contact hours Basketball: 0.03 per 100 contact hours So Football has slightly more injuries if you were looking at statistics..
But both Soccer and Cross-Country have higher rates than those; Cross-Country: 0.37 per 100 Soccer: 6.20 per 100
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 21, 2008 9:36:04 GMT -6
Ultimately, I have always said that the only reason NOT to play football is because you don't want to play football. Any other reason is pretty much worthless.
Unfortunately, for us footballers, the truth is basketball is more fun. It leads itself to more "fun" situations (scrimmage type situations). Working a trap chute...not that fun.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 21, 2008 9:43:42 GMT -6
I would be interested in hearing suggestions to make football more fun. This is one area that I am always wanting to improve upon.
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Post by lochness on Feb 21, 2008 10:11:14 GMT -6
I would be interested in hearing suggestions to make football more fun. This is one area that I am always wanting to improve upon. RUN THE SPREAD AND THE 3-3-5!! Kidding. I think "fun" is a relative state-of-mind. What's "fun" for Bobby Zero isn't going to be fun for Jimmy Nil. You want to build your team around guys that think blocking and tackling are fun, and guys that think the physical nature and intensity of football are "fun." Contrary to what some would have you believe, these kids STILL exist. If I have to change my systems or philosophy simply to get "athletes" out, then I am missing the point I think. Football is special,and it's not necesarily for everyone. I don't want to sell out trying to get every type of athlete in the school to like football. They can go play "scoreless soccer" if they want to feel good about themselves and have fun 100% of the time. It's very frustrating to get a great athlete who is soft. Everyone says "U GUTTA FIND WAYZ 2 UZE DAT ATHLETE, COACH...DUH!"...but if he ain't a football player, he AIN'T a football player. There are certain elements that make up a football player, and courage and love for contact are essential, in any given situation. I think you can make things "fun" simply by knowing when to lighten up on occasion, by having good team-building stuff before and during the season, and all of those little things. It's like someone else here said..."if they don't wanna play, they don't wanna play." I would never change our philosophy or approach to the game just to get a basketball player or two to come out (for example). It just isn't worth it in the end. They'll always be the "basketball guy who plays football" rather than a true football player. If you have guys that TRULY play both and are dedicated to both, then that is great. We've had some of those guys too, and they are typically great leaders, great athletes, ane great in the classroom...but they are a more rare breed.
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Post by knight9299 on Feb 21, 2008 10:38:02 GMT -6
I would be interested in hearing suggestions to make football more fun. This is one area that I am always wanting to improve upon. I played college ball with a guy who didn't win a game over his entire high school career. He always said he had fun playing football in high school. Sure Friday's sucked, but the rest of the time was fun. He got to college, and realized winning makes football fun.
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Post by superpower on Feb 21, 2008 10:49:08 GMT -6
I would be interested in hearing suggestions to make football more fun. This is one area that I am always wanting to improve upon. RUN THE SPREAD AND THE 3-3-5!! Kidding. I think "fun" is a relative state-of-mind. What's "fun" for Bobby Zero isn't going to be fun for Jimmy Nil. You want to build your team around guys that think blocking and tackling are fun, and guys that think the physical nature and intensity of football are "fun." Contrary to what some would have you believe, these kids STILL exist. If I have to change my systems or philosophy simply to get "athletes" out, then I am missing the point I think. Football is special,and it's not necesarily for everyone. I don't want to sell out trying to get every type of athlete in the school to like football. They can go play "scoreless soccer" if they want to feel good about themselves and have fun 100% of the time. It's very frustrating to get a great athlete who is soft. Everyone says "U GUTTA FIND WAYZ 2 UZE DAT ATHLETE, COACH...DUH!"...but if he ain't a football player, he AIN'T a football player. There are certain elements that make up a football player, and courage and love for contact are essential, in any given situation. I think you can make things "fun" simply by knowing when to lighten up on occasion, by having good team-building stuff before and during the season, and all of those little things. It's like someone else here said..."if they don't wanna play, they don't wanna play." I would never change our philosophy or approach to the game just to get a basketball player or two to come out (for example). It just isn't worth it in the end. They'll always be the "basketball guy who plays football" rather than a true football player. If you have guys that TRULY play both and are dedicated to both, then that is great. We've had some of those guys too, and they are typically great leaders, great athletes, ane great in the classroom...but they are a more rare breed. I would like to nominate lochness for quote of the year! Awesome post!
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Post by coachweav88 on Feb 21, 2008 13:53:09 GMT -6
I don't know if there is an umbrella answer to get basketball players to come play football. The reasons for kids specializing in basketball are so diverse that it would be difficult to give a blanket answer. Talk with the individual athlete and see why he likes basketball so much. Maybe by listening to him, you might be able to find a way to promote the football team that is more in touch with what he wants.
The "I don't want to get hurt for basketball" argument is illogical though. He could get hurt walking down the stairs, riding in a car, or playing basketball during the summer, but I don't think that logic stops him from doing any of those activites.
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Post by td4tc on Feb 21, 2008 17:45:44 GMT -6
I'm an orthopod who doubles as a high school fball coach and i've stolen some great kids every year from the bball team(the ones who dive for loose balls). i quite honestly tell them that i see way more ACL tears and high ankle sprains from bball than i do from football now that we've cleaned football up with no chop blocks and reduced cut blocking.i do see less knee injuries on real grass fields however. i personally became a much better bball player after my first year of fball and i've seen sev examples in my players of this as well.for us in canada the best guys to grab are the star hockey players.they make great fballers.
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