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Post by wildcat on Apr 18, 2007 8:45:51 GMT -6
Fellas - Recently took a job as an assistant coach at a urban public school that has a lot of black kids (and white kids for that matter) who come from low-income families. The last six years, I have been coaching at a small, rural school that is exclusively white and economically falls between mostly middle class to what I would call "working poor". Question is...are there any differences to coaching kids in a big, urban school? My assumption is that these kids are probably a lot more "worldly" than the kids I am used to being around and probably have some issues with authority given that many of them are coming from single-parent homes where Dad might not be around much. Lots of these kids probably have academic issues, as well. (again, these are assumptions are are not based on any real facts...I know what can happen when you assume...ass-out-of-you-and-me"  ) Anyway...anything I need to know? Anything I need to avoid doing or saying? Thanks! |
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2007 9:07:51 GMT -6
uh...............yeah................
One thing you may need to know is that these kids typically get ENOUGH of the negative brow-beating at home and in the community.............one kind word or encouraging (not enabling) comment goes a LOOOONG way with the city kids.
The kids will (typically) not trust you and test the limits to see if you will run out on them / give up on them, so be prepared. Once they know you are out for their best interest and not trying to use them, they will do ANYTHING for you.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 18, 2007 9:15:40 GMT -6
The kids will (typically) not trust you and test the limits to see if you will run out on them / give up on them, so be prepared. Once they know you are out for their best interest and not trying to use them, they will do ANYTHING for you. Amen well put I have seen it a million times. It will be a different world from where you are comming from, but could be one of the most rewarding experiences you will have. You'll want to pull your hair out some days and it ain't for everyone but can be a great experience. |
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Post by wildcat on Apr 18, 2007 9:20:30 GMT -6
The kids will (typically) not trust you and test the limits to see if you will run out on them / give up on them, so be prepared. Once they know you are out for their best interest and not trying to use them, they will do ANYTHING for you. brophy - Good point... I think Frosty Weathering said something along the lines of "they don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care"...I think that is what you are getting at? Couple things I am planning on doing this summer and during the season (I'm going to be the OL coach): 1) After we get done with practice on one of the days during the week, I'm going to get a couple of pizzas and we are going to hang out in the coaches' office and watch film and get to know one another. Linemen only! I would like to have the kids come to my house to do this, but I live about 25 miles away and it probably isn't feasible to have those guys come all of the way out. 2) I'm going to go to a bunch of D-III college games this fall on Saturday. Would like to bring these guys along and introduce them to some coaches and expose them to the world outside of NW Illinois. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2007 9:35:58 GMT -6
Just be solid for them and only ask of them what you're willing to give to them.
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oldcap8
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Post by oldcap8 on Apr 18, 2007 9:42:10 GMT -6
Coach,
The only thing I can think of between Urban and Rural would be getting kids to come out for football, in most urban areas there is so much more to do, and unfortunately one of those things is gang activity, (this is something I’ve had to deal with)…you want to provide them a option or alternative to gangs, but if you can, make them choose, you have to either play football or gang-bang, you can’t do both….I think your assumption that urban kids are more “Worldly” is correct, (but they still need some hand-holding) but what I tell my kids is, I will bend over backwards to help you, but you have to at least try to help your self…( I know some have obstacles to overcome, but they still know right from wrong) If I see you consistently doing the “wrong thing” (whatever that may be, I do try to view each situation separately), and not even attempting to “do the right thing”, …Why should I stick my neck out for you ? Just my $0.02
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Post by dubber on Apr 18, 2007 9:43:28 GMT -6
All this is right on......once they know coach cares for them, they'll run through brick walls.
One thing to note: I find the biggest difference between football players comes not along racial or logistical lines, but economic. Middle class to low-income kids usually (not always) know how to work hard, or have it in them to do so (chips on their shoulders). It's the high income, spoiled kids (again not all high income kids are like this) that make me pull my hair out.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 18, 2007 9:51:49 GMT -6
This is a good discussion. I think the point about class/economics instead of race is an important distinction. The school Wildcat is going to has a good history in football, especially recently. I assume those kids have a pretty good work ethic.
As a side note, if you have not read Frosty Westering's book "Make the Big Time Where you Are", you need to get a copy. Great book on dealing with life and keeping things in perspective.
I have coached in a large town (pop 90K+) at a school on the wealthy side of town and found no problems, but then again I was just an assistant and did not have to deal with parents. I was a HC at a small rural school with absolutely no work ethic when it came to sports period. And I am now an assistant at a larger rural school with +/- 1,000 students and the work ethic is mixed. I think sometimes we think rural kids know hard work, and city kids don't and I don't think that is always true.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 18, 2007 10:01:54 GMT -6
1) After we get done with practice on one of the days during the week, I'm going to get a couple of pizzas and we are going to hang out in the coaches' office and watch film and get to know one another. Linemen only! I would like to have the kids come to my house to do this, but I live about 25 miles away and it probably isn't feasible to have those guys come all of the way out.
Wildcat,
When I was at the city school we used to have an annual O-Line BBQ at my house (30 miles away... out in the sticks). We had a blast... they would bring paint ball guns, golf clubs (big pasture to tee-off), ATVs... whatever. We'd eat, play horseshoes... not much football talk, just a time to get together. Your idea seems great, but maybe a one time only thing at your house could be good too.
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Post by kloranc on Apr 18, 2007 10:04:44 GMT -6
I think that the tradition of the program has the biggest effect. If you don't have a strong tradition at that school, creating one is your number one priority. This will take time of course. That is why this site is so useful. You can get on here and get lots of advice from coaches who already have a strong tradition, and those who have created one.
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Post by tye2021 on Apr 18, 2007 13:14:15 GMT -6
If the kids wants to play football and has a love for the game you may not have any problems. Some of the kids football is a place they can get away from problems in their community or at home. The ones you will have the biggest problem with are the "half committed". They are on the bubble and are torn between participating in sports or running the streets.
I don't know if I would call them "WORlDLY" becasue most of them have never ventured outside of their community (comfort zone). However I would say they have a lot more street smarts and knowledge on how to deal with people. So you can't BS these kids at all.
RESPECT GOES A LONG WAY! You need to be less of an "AUTHORITY FIGURE", and more of a role model they respect. These kids will follow you if they respect what YOU are about and if you show an interest in them as a person 1st and a player second. That doesn't mean you let them get away with breaking your rules! You still need to hold their feet to the fire and let them know that things will be done your way and they must follow team rules.
is that they are dealing with a lot more negative peer pressure than suburban kids and you need to constantly talk to the team about doing the right things to be successful as young men as well as players. One thing you may want to keep in mind is you can't save them all. Help those that genually want to stay off the streets. And if you can convience others to change their negative ways its a bonus!
Good luck!
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Post by briangilbert on Apr 18, 2007 18:10:50 GMT -6
I would argue that money has nothing to do with whether or not the kids will work hard. I have coached at one of the wealthiest towns in America and I am now coaching at a diverse school.
The rich kids actually had a better work ethnic, and I think this was only because they had a tradition of winning football games.
The school I am at now is about (in my opinion) to have it's best record in school history this season (only have to beat a 7-3 record).
Tradition and prestige can defeat class any day of the week. I don't care how much money your community has it doesn't matter, what matters is do the kids believe they can win, and do they love football?
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Post by lionhart on Apr 18, 2007 19:08:28 GMT -6
briangilbert... i agrew with you on that! alot of timews, its the wealthier kids who have more commitment and especially less distractions.... giving them more time to get things done. i work in the inner city and can tell you this : if the kids believe you are on their side, there's nothing they wont do for you. these kids need a firm hand, no doubt. however, every once in a hile they need a hug and if you can be both to them you will be fine. ive found that if you strike the fear of god in them first.... then you can ease up later. its very difficult at times because you WILL lose kids to the street, and it hurts alot. but these kids have been dumped on alot and to be a positive force for them will be well worth it. good luck
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Post by briangilbert on Apr 18, 2007 22:32:37 GMT -6
I agree with the less distraction aspect, but my point was that Rich or Poor it doesn't matter, it's more a matter of whether or not that school has had past success and know's how to win. There are many rich schools around where I am at in Ohio who can not play, and there are many who can, there are many towns in poverty here who are outstanding, and many who are not.
Loving football crosses over Economic and Social Status, if you love football and know how to win it won't matter if your family makes 20,000 a year or 200,000 a year.
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Post by cutty on Apr 18, 2007 22:46:17 GMT -6
This topic is much bigger than football or wins/losses. City kids do not have both parents at home, so as a coach you may become a true father figure and only male in their lives that is spending time with these young men. I think it is important to earn their respect by your actions. Young black males get a lot of talking at home from MOM and often tune MOM out. So make sure to be tough but fair. Kindness will be taken for weakness but I do not exactly now how city your kids are. Good luck on leaving your impression on them.
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Post by brophy on Apr 19, 2007 7:27:31 GMT -6
one final thought ......
With Inner city kids, I think more than anything (you can use football as the delivery method) you have to expose the Inner city kids to LIFE OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
Organize (this doesn't have to be grand affairs) trips to college campuses.......the best avenue is taking the football team to see the State Championship game.....or (even better) take them to the local University's Spring Football game. Let them see that life isn't as depressing as the economic environment currently dictates. You can bet they wouldn't get this exposure from their family (because they just don't have the means) - and seeing life lived differently than you (and what busting your tail to get through school and CONTINUING your education) can have a dramatic impact on impressionable minds.
Dealing with Inner city programs can be a major headache or a wonderful blessing.
The immoveable object is these kids economic backgrounds and the effect on their family - as long as you recognize that (not make excuses for it) and don't try to butt heads with ingrained attitudes, the easier (and more enjoyable) your experience will be.
Pick your battles and focus on the destination, not how you get there.
Showing the kids you CARE (interested in their success and are willing to do something FOR the kids) and that you have EXPECTATIONS (set clear guidelines of responsibilities that are unbreakable).
IF you can do that, you will have accomplished what $100M of Federal grants, countless hours of clergy and activist rhetoric couldn't do..............."CHANGE THE LIFE OF ANOTHER STATISTIC"
Most of the inner city kids have no ambition outside of their current social status. Football changes a boys attitude toward life and himself. Nothing else comes close
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Post by jhanawa on Apr 19, 2007 14:20:54 GMT -6
Most of the inner city kids have no ambition outside of their current social status. Football changes a boys attitude toward life and himself. Nothing else comes close
Excellent point!
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Post by coachpoe on Apr 19, 2007 14:46:29 GMT -6
Agree with many of the previous posters...football crosses over socio-economic status or race. I think many times people see "rich" schools that don't excell at football and they assume it's because they are spoiled and don't know how to work hard. That may sometimes be the case, but there are a lot of factors that go into football success. There is a league where I live that is one of the best in the state made up of small, mostly affulent or upper middle class, private schools. Tradition and coaching has a lot more to do with work ethic then anything else. Wildcat you will do great and good luck in your new position.
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jet
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Post by jet on Apr 19, 2007 17:39:56 GMT -6
Ted Ginn at Glenville High School in Cleveland has a group of kids that are certainly low income and have a lot of issues. However, kids transfer from all over the place to go to Glenville because of him. He runs a college tour that gets his kids exposed to colleges. The kids know that he will work the phones for them to try and get them into school. He's always at the recruting nights at the local high schools trying to sell his kids to schools. He also does FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) The kids see that he is out there trying to teach them to be good men so as many other coaches say the kids will "Run through a brick wall for him" Dealing with the types of kids that he has it's important to foster the relationship as he has. That would be my advice, work a realtionship with the kids and show them you care, don't tell them and let the chips fall as they may.
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Post by coachgeiser on Apr 20, 2007 12:17:20 GMT -6
I've been teaching and coaching in the inner city of Philadelphia for the past 20 years. I think the kids appreciate the fact that they know I will be there next year, and the year after that. I know this sounds funny,but they have teachers and coaches leaving all of the time. I stress commitment to our players in every talk I give. In 99 out 100 kids they have never committed to anything else in their lives. The concept of commitment is a really hard thing for them to grasp. My players like the idea of our team doing more than the other teams in the city. We started speed training in the spring 3 years ago, and the kids really responded. We weight train during the summer on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings at 7:00 a.m. We didn't know what to expect when we started this 8 years ago, but we had a good turnout, and have continued this tradition. When I talk about our team I always call it our program, and I talk about how other schools have teams, but we have a program. I stated in another post that we wrote a grant a few years back for an academic advisor, and the kids do volunteer work as part of this Play it Smart Program.
This may be long winded but I included the above information because I let the kids know that this is what they do in the suburbs(CB WEST, St Joes Prep), and this is what we do here. I tell them that I only know one way to coach, and this is it. Most of all they see that I am committed, and they know that I will be there everyday. Sure there are days when I question myself. There are days when I have only a handful of kids at weight training, but we all have days like that.
We have had some success the past few years and this has had a tremendous affect on the kids.
If I could give you one bit of advise it would be "Be Yourself" These kids know a bulls---er right away.
ps. The previous head coach and I would always try to bring our kids to practice, and talk about our families,and family commitments. We thought it sent a great message to these young men.
Sorry I rambled on but I think this post was good for me.
Coach Geiser
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