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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 23, 2006 17:12:07 GMT -6
After reading the lengthy "HC CALLING PLAYS" thread, I was wondering if any of you guys out there felt calling plays was overrated?
I know I do, on both sides of the ball. My philosophy is such that IT IS VASTLY MORE IMPORTANT to GAMEPLAN a good game, then to "call a good game". If you gamplanned well, are organized, and have half a brain, playcalling is simply choosing one of a few plays you have already picked out.
Remember, they are all supposed to score (or stop the ball carrier) anyway.
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wingtoc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 152
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Post by wingtoc on Feb 23, 2006 19:04:35 GMT -6
I think playcalling is over-rated. It is the execution of the play and the players executing the play that matters. I can scheme all day and if the players can't execute then it isn't going to work.
That's my opinion, though
Wing
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fish
Junior Member
Posts: 485
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Post by fish on Feb 23, 2006 19:10:42 GMT -6
that's something i've learned. if you put in the time to gameplan and prepare the kids to know what they will see then you'll probably be alright. ultimately, its not the x's and the o's, its the jimmys and the joes.
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Post by dmp225 on Feb 23, 2006 19:16:27 GMT -6
play calling is over rated. Anyone can call the plays, but it takes time and patience to set up the script and gameplan. If you ever see coaches starting to panic, then you know they do not know how to gameplan. A good gameplanning coach plans for the good, a great one plans for the good and the bad. b/c they both happen in a game
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Post by mrfr33z3 on Feb 23, 2006 20:47:43 GMT -6
Well I'm a New OC and I was wonder what should I do to be a Great gameplanner? I wanna know where I should start to properly do this? If anyone out there has any info or downloads or websites let me know I'm in need of any and all knowledge. thanks
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scox80
Freshmen Member
If quitters never win, and winners never quit. Who is the fool who said quit while your ahead?
Posts: 91
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Post by scox80 on Feb 23, 2006 20:52:55 GMT -6
MRFR i am in the same boat as you...only gonna be my second year. We lost three games this year. Which I feel was my fault as the OC and QB coach. I didn't gameplan for the bad which is soemthing I need to work on this year. Any ideas or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 23, 2006 20:53:53 GMT -6
the more you can "call plays" during the week, the easy it is on game nights.
meaning, establish a good gameplan through tendencies & film work. meet to set up the call sheet so you have a good fall-back sheet to go by
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 23, 2006 20:55:28 GMT -6
I think that playcalling is a little bit overrated. Most "great playcalls" are just calling a play that is already in, at the right moment in the game. Last year, we were playing a team that was bringing the OLB & DE hard to the TE side when we went trips the opposite way. after we rolled to the left and flooded the zone on the trips side a few times, I told my HC that we should run our YE screen to the weak side, which we ran all the time, but hadn't yet that game. We got a 60 yard TD on it, just by recognizing an adjustment the defense made, and going to a play to take advantage of it. But if the kids didn't execute the play, then the playcall would have been worthless. It's all about getting the kids to KNOW what they are supposed to do, and have the ability to do it.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Feb 23, 2006 21:10:02 GMT -6
Play calling may be over rated, but I think the great coaches make in game adjustments. Being able to id what a defense is doing to you and how to counter it often determines your success in the second half.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 24, 2006 7:14:27 GMT -6
Try to keep the number of plays installed to a minimum. I have been guilty of putting in too much too soon a few times before. A well designed installation plan is a necessary. I believe that good gameplanning cannot be achieved without first being able to execute your base offense.
Making adjustments during the game is really what the coaching is all about.
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Post by blb on Feb 24, 2006 8:25:33 GMT -6
I do not think game coaching is overrated. I think it is an art and science, just like running a practice, game planning, and teaching on the field. Communicating with the kids and other coaches (including those in press box) and making sound calls, adjustments, and strategic decisions can help you win. I have also seen some guys whose lack of this ability gets in the way of their kids' being successful on game nights.
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 24, 2006 8:27:38 GMT -6
I a small voice in the crowd but as a dw coach i think play calling is huge. if my kids know who to block and do a good job of sustaining the blocks i think it comes down to calling the right play and executing it well. too many times ill see film and think "what was i thinking?"
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Post by brophy on Feb 24, 2006 8:31:01 GMT -6
"Play calling is the most over rated aspect in football. EXECUTIOn is the most under rated aspect of football" - Bill Parcells
Now having said that, the 'right' play call at the 'right' time can totally demoralize an opponent, (from a defensive standpoint) and make them think like you are in the huddle with them (= there is no answer / solution).
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 24, 2006 10:10:30 GMT -6
Play Calling is somewhat over ratedGameplanning is important no matter what offense
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Post by phantom on Feb 24, 2006 10:30:22 GMT -6
A few years ago we were in a close game. The opponents had the ball and were going for it on 4th and short. They'd had a strong tendency in that situation to run weakside iso so I called a weakside LB blitz to get penetration. We're a flip-flopping defense and when the offense comes to the line, our LB calls strength wrong and we're misaligned. We're going to run the blitz to their strong side. Well, the offense runs a strongside iso (something they hadn't done much) and the blitzing backer blows it up for a two yard loss. The LB coach who was standing next to me and knew what I'd called just laughed and said, "Great call". So, yes, I think gameplanning and execution are more important but sometimes dumb luck works too.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 24, 2006 10:39:52 GMT -6
phantom .... haha ... i bet each of us could tell countless stories like that.
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Post by Mav on Feb 24, 2006 10:51:00 GMT -6
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 24, 2006 11:17:55 GMT -6
good book, mav. great suggestion. i have used much of the guidelines layed out by billick in that book.
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scox80
Freshmen Member
If quitters never win, and winners never quit. Who is the fool who said quit while your ahead?
Posts: 91
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Post by scox80 on Feb 24, 2006 14:00:42 GMT -6
Thanks Mav
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Post by spreadjet31 on Feb 24, 2006 14:28:00 GMT -6
While I agree with most on here that gameplanning is obviously more important than playcalling, I still feel that there's a subtle art to "going off the chart" and picking a particular play for an exact moment. Sometimes it's brilliant and sometimes it blows up on you, but if you feel it, you should call it. In my humble opinion anyway.
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Post by blb on Feb 24, 2006 17:42:32 GMT -6
If play calling is over-rated, then let your QB call the plays on game day or night.
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bucky
Freshmen Member
Posts: 67
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Post by bucky on Feb 25, 2006 11:36:50 GMT -6
I agree blb! Playcalling is probably overrated by most coaches who don't call the plays. Plus, to me "gameplanning" is "playcalling", you just are doing it early. I love coaching against script guys....you know for sure they won't come back to the same play on the next play. Plus, isn't calling a screen when a blitz is coming good. How do you gameplan a blitz? If you playcall you can "feel it" and "time it" I think. Plus with a no-huddle you prep your QB to "look over" to get out of a bad call. I don't think it's overrated, plus if it is, it takes alot of the fun away from doing it. I'd rather play chess than watch someone else play!
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Post by shortyardage on Feb 25, 2006 12:31:57 GMT -6
Play calling is over rated.
I once had the opportunity to hear Norm Chow speak at a private clinic session. He told us that the NFL keeps detailed statistics on everything imagineable concerning their football games. The one stat that stood out the most to him was the one that stated that up to 80% of the plays run in a professional football game were actually busted plays, that is to say that the play that they actually got off was different from what was called in from the sideline.
He went on to say that one of the greatest things about practicing at USC was that he got to go brain to brain with Pete Carroll every day and that what he saw pre-snap was never what he got post snap, so he always had to be prepared for that. A play called in from the sideline with no check off, sight adjust, audible or automatic built in seems to stand less of a chance of success.
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Post by tog on Feb 25, 2006 20:21:32 GMT -6
This is why I like plays like bunch mesh or zone run game that is good against anything in theory.
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Post by tog on Feb 25, 2006 20:22:23 GMT -6
Kinda takes the guessing game out of it some. I don't like being a play behind. Just because the defense is being random. We are not talented enough to overcome that.
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bucky
Freshmen Member
Posts: 67
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Post by bucky on Feb 25, 2006 21:01:37 GMT -6
I have a question. Who rated it high anyway? I really think it is what it is. If any coach thinks it wins or loses games..............he is probably wrong. If any coach thinks it doesn't make much difference.........I'd like to schedule them. Probably the higher the level of play, the more checks you have, the less chance the "original" playcall will be run. We all know the more talent we have the "eaiser" it is to playcall!
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Post by blb on Feb 26, 2006 7:43:55 GMT -6
The Seahwaks made it to the Super Bowl and they hardly ever automatic. Notice one time they tried (end of first half) got them in trouble. I'm not advocating against automatics (we call about 20% of our plays at LOS so like Tog says we won't "be a play behind"). Just reiterarting, there is an art and science to play calling, just like other facets of our profession.
I can't speak for the coaches on this board because I haven't coached against them or know them personally, but coaches I've competed against or seen play that didn't think game coaching makes a difference in contests between evenly-matched teams weren't very good at it. I also can remember a game or two that I contributed to our losing because I had a bad game.
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Post by phantom on Feb 26, 2006 11:11:00 GMT -6
I'm not saying that playcalling isn't important and I don't think anybody else is either. I just think that it is somewhat overrated as a direct cause of wining a game. I think that I'd rate the factors that lead to winning as 1. Technique (execution); 2. Morale; 3. Gameplanning; 4. Game-day playcalling. Now, you mention bad playcalling and I agree that that's a different story. Bad playcalling can trump all of the other stuff and get you beat. In my opinion, many coaches who are consistently bad playcallers are bad because they overrate the importance of their game-day playcalling. They're not satisfied to win because they have good players playing good football. It's an ego thing with them and they want to win because they outsmarted the other guy (let me make it absolutely clear that I'm not talking about anybody in this discussion. I'm making an observation about guys I've coached or scouted against). They do things like using their stud player as a decoy, getting away from things that are working, and drawing plays up in the dirt. I'd sum up my opinion like this: as a positive factor-winning because of great game-day playcalling- I believe that playcalling is overrated; as a negative factor-losing because of poor playcalling- I believe that playcalling is critical. Don't outcoach yourself.
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 26, 2006 11:23:16 GMT -6
phatnom, I agree 100%
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Post by blb on Mar 1, 2006 8:12:42 GMT -6
"People say on Thursday, well, all the hay is in the barn. That's a bunch of baloney. The hay is in the barn when the gun goes off at the end of the game. Where you earn your money as a coach is in the adjustments you make during the game. You don't know what the other guy is going to do on offense, so you have to be able to adjust to it."
-- Hall of Fame Coach Bill Yeoman 1999 AFCA Convention
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