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Post by ajreaper on Dec 10, 2007 10:11:52 GMT -6
I'd say it's entirely up to Airraider to decide if he's comfortable going public so to say with this (if that was the case at all)- not us. And truth be told he asked if we'd be upset- I believe trying to guage if perhaps he was over reacting a bit or was justified in how he viewed the situation. Nothing wrong with that either. I also have a feeling he'll be letting the powers to be at his school know exactly how he feels. One great thing about this site is we can bounce things off others to get a feel from our peers how they'd think, feel or resond to a given situation- very nice tool to have available to us.
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Post by tye2021 on Dec 10, 2007 12:34:34 GMT -6
I thaught he said it was "hypothetical"?
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
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Post by crl on Dec 10, 2007 12:52:29 GMT -6
I am all for the freedom of speech...HC------ is wrong, Asst C------- is angry, and rightly so. These are Men that we are speaking about, and saying that it is wrong....well there´s is an inequity. 1. Matter should be reported to AD, a law and principle has been broken. need to remind that mis-appropriation of school, said city and state funds is a Felony.. 2. Asst Coach, should tender his resignation to AD, with the complete truth in the letter certified mail. 3. A Copy of resignation should be sent to each member of the school board certified mail.
We as Coaches are to show and teach what is moral and right, if we defy this we ourselfs are corrupt and not worthy to be called the title Coach. Some of you may think I am crazy, but that Title and the weight and responsibilty it holds is important; and any offense against it is a slap in the face to those who bear its responsibilty and burden.
(except stealing signs)
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Post by playfast on Dec 10, 2007 13:31:00 GMT -6
Just asking a question:
Is it possible that the school district would only pay for the head coach???
I go to the national convention and the school pays my air, hotel, and $25 a day for food. They will not pay for my assistants. This past year a coach from another school paid his own air and stayed with me. My school officials are well aware of the situation. The theory is as long as I get my professional hours everyone is happy and the trip was a success.
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Post by airraider on Dec 10, 2007 16:20:17 GMT -6
Just asking a question: Is it possible that the school district would only pay for the head coach??? I go to the national convention and the school pays my air, hotel, and $25 a day for food. They will not pay for my assistants. This past year a coach from another school paid his own air and stayed with me. My school officials are well aware of the situation. The theory is as long as I get my professional hours everyone is happy and the trip was a success. The main gripe here is not just that the HC had his way paid, but that in place of the assistant coaches, the HC's son was allowed to attend. He stayed in a hotel that was paid for by the school as well as rode by means of the schools money in gas for the 340 mile trip.
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Post by casec11 on Dec 10, 2007 20:16:21 GMT -6
How old is the son? Could the HC have been just trying to spend some time with him? It sounds like he rode in the car with hid dad and slept in the same room... That really does not sound like a miss use of funds. Did the school pay his way in?
I'm not saying what he did was fair to the assistants but a 340 mile ride gives a father time to talk with a son...maybe there are other cicumstances (family) or a reason that the coach did not invite the asstants to share the room or the ride?
Just trying to look at it from another direction.
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Post by wildcat on Dec 10, 2007 20:19:57 GMT -6
How old is the son? Could the HC have been just trying to spend some time with him? It sounds like he rode in the car with hid dad and slept in the same room... That really does not sound like a miss use of funds. Did the school pay his way in? I'm not saying what he did was fair to the assistants but a 340 mile ride gives a father time to talk with a son...maybe there are other cicumstances (family) or a reason that the coach did not invite the asstants to share the room or the ride? Just trying to look at it from another direction. What happened to the $300?
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Post by airraider on Dec 10, 2007 20:24:51 GMT -6
How old is the son? Could the HC have been just trying to spend some time with him? It sounds like he rode in the car with hid dad and slept in the same room... That really does not sound like a miss use of funds. Did the school pay his way in? I'm not saying what he did was fair to the assistants but a 340 mile ride gives a father time to talk with a son...maybe there are other circumstances (family) or a reason that the coach did not invite the assistant to share the room or the ride? Just trying to look at it from another direction. No, I don't think any of that is the case.. just as I would not take my wife and allow her to stay in a room that the school paid for.. if I am taking my wife then it is a pleasure trip and I will pay for it as so.. out of my own pocket.. business is another thing.. The son is a freshmen in high school who plays for another team that was knocked out the week before.. and the main thing to me is not either of the situations on there own.. but both in conjunction.. Cannot afford to take money out of football to take the two assistant coaches.. but can afford to pay for his and his son's way down there.. that's the issue at hand..
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Post by casec11 on Dec 10, 2007 20:25:31 GMT -6
What 300? I may have missed some of the story, It was edited before I read it
I do think the HC was wrong not to include the assistants before his Son, but at my company (im not a HS coach) they encourage the emploees to take a spouse or such on a trips that will not interfere with their buisness or cost extra (I may just be blessed to work there however)
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Post by brophy on Dec 10, 2007 20:43:23 GMT -6
if you read it all the way through, "the trip" is a culmination of a lot of bad vibes from the HC.
Not a bad guy, just rubbing a lot of (important) people the wrong way.
Making yourself an island as a HC, doesn't help a situation. Point of the thread is.....if the HC makes guarantees, then backs away from them, is evasive with his staff, it sends an indirect message that they aren't a priority.
Conversely, when you say "I appreciate you guys" and follow through with something like inviting you over to watch a game (or something), you send a congruent message.
"The trip" is the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Post by casec11 on Dec 10, 2007 20:51:40 GMT -6
I see now... Air? Was the HC ever informed you were looking into some HCing possitions? If so did he take it badly?
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Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
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Post by Shotgun1 on Dec 10, 2007 20:57:31 GMT -6
If you have a problem with anybody best thing to do is sit down and air it out with them. Tell them exactly how you feel and either move on or keep coaching. The other day I was pssed off at an email and rather than email a nasty email back I went right over to the guy and called him out on his email. He had no ground to stand on and said he was sorry and wrong.
This is a great place for football advice but you ultimately have to take action and sit down with this guy and find out the facts and lay out what you know. If he is wrong and made a bad decision then you need to decide what you are going to do.
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Post by airraider on Dec 11, 2007 6:22:23 GMT -6
I see now... Air? Was the HC ever informed you were looking into some HCing possitions? If so did he take it badly? I have informed him of me being a finalist at a job that I applied for. This however was several weeks after he initially told us that he was not taking us on the trip..
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 7:17:05 GMT -6
I see now... Air? Was the HC ever informed you were looking into some HCing possitions? If so did he take it badly? I have informed him of me being a finalist at a job that I applied for. This however was several weeks after he initially told us that he was not taking us on the trip.. just for giggles, what if you get that gig next season.... and an assistant you hire gets on SuperCoach.com message board and starts writing that his HC is a total tool for throwing the ball....he should listen to his new coaches and run Power-I and give them all raises.....
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pal
Freshmen Member
Posts: 73
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Post by pal on Dec 11, 2007 7:41:03 GMT -6
I agree with Brophy...put yourself on the other side of the ball
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 7:50:04 GMT -6
just to be clear, I'm not suggesting a self-righteous tone...that "good coaches" wouldn't do this, but just noting it is a fine line we have to walk to speak our minds given "this business" is all about relationships and burning bridges is bad karma.
You have a legitimate beef, and you wanted to share the dilema that any one of is could face......
how do you respectfully go about expressing that to colleagues? I dunno....but you're leaving anyway, so what can ya do?
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Post by wildcat on Dec 11, 2007 7:50:27 GMT -6
I have informed him of me being a finalist at a job that I applied for. This however was several weeks after he initially told us that he was not taking us on the trip.. just for giggles, what if you get that gig next season.... and an assistant you hire gets on SuperCoach.com message board and starts writing that his HC is a total tool for throwing the ball....he should listen to his new coaches and run Power-I and give them all raises..... Well...I think that is a lot different than what is happening here.
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 8:05:04 GMT -6
Well...I think that is a lot different than what is happening here. the point of that remark was that we are only hearing one side of the story...... and it maybe isn't the fairest thing in the world to make attacks on a person's character in a public forum. Not saying he was wrong to post it, but there are questionable ethics that come into play when you air personal gripes about staff members. If I start a post saying airraider kicks my dog after every bad practice.....you might know who he is, and draw an improper conclusion to a situation. maybe my dog deserved to get kicked....I dunno. If you are interviewing for a job, how often does it come down to just your credentials? Often times it is how you are perceived, or what other people say about you. If you heard that a guy cheats on his wife, you will infer other qualities about his character. If I say that a guy is a complete womanizer and a drunkard, basing my perception on an occassion at a Christmas party having a dance with a co-worker. That really isn't fair, but I've sullied your opinion of this PARTICULAR guy.
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Post by tog on Dec 11, 2007 8:08:52 GMT -6
I think it all boils down to it being ok if it is anonymous
a coach seeking information/ideas about a situation this is a good forum for it
now
if someone can link it back to him and to his hc then yes it could be an issue
airraider, if you think that is an issue here, pm me, and i can remove this thread
otherwise
it is healthy for coaches to talk about stuff like this figure out what is right and wrong how things could/should be handled
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Post by wildcat on Dec 11, 2007 8:10:45 GMT -6
Well...I think that is a lot different than what is happening here. the point of that remark was that we are only hearing one side of the story...... and it maybe isn't the fairest thing in the world to make attacks on a person's character in a public forum. Not saying he was wrong to post it, but there are questionable ethics that come into play when you air personal gripes about staff members. If I start a post saying airraider kicks my dog after every bad practice.....you might know who he is, and draw an improper conclusion to a situation. maybe my dog deserved to get kicked....I dunno. I agree that we should be very careful about posting anything that could even be considered remotely critical of the HC, administration, school, players, whatever...You are right that there is a very fine line that must be walked in these cases. In situations like this, perhaps it would be better to speak in "hypotheticals" (ex. "I know a guy who...", "If you were a head coach, would you...", etc, etc...)
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Post by airraider on Dec 11, 2007 9:06:36 GMT -6
Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember numerous posts of the the years that contain instances where a coach wants to know how to approach his HC about not agreeing with him on a certain idea.
I was simply asking my question to see if I had a legitimate reason for being upset, or whether I was over reacting to this.
I did not come on here and say hey guys, "John Doe, who is the HC at Jones High School is a jerk who does not care about his coaches. You should advise all that you know to never work for him."
Also, I have seen many posts where people come on here and mention Bob Burns as a jerk who steals money. Is it the same? No, but money is envolved and both parties feel that they have been wronged.
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 9:11:20 GMT -6
I was simply asking my question to see if I had a legitimate reason for being upset, or whether I was over reacting to this. I did not come on here and say hey guys, "John Doe, who is the HC at Jones High School is a jerk who does not care about his coaches. You should advise all that you know to never work for him.". GREAT point.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 11, 2007 9:48:03 GMT -6
Air Raider, the one thing I have noticed in many situations is that some peopler eally don't read what is posted and read into what you are saying, they simply look for a way to seem like they are some how better than than you and point out that you are wrong and that you missed the boat.
As far as Brophy and SWGT, I thought their input was very good and I personally learned some good strategy and good advice, whereas others are just pointing out the fact that they are right and you are wrong. Regardless of the situaution.
I think it would be appropriate to create another section titled "Holier Than Thou", because for what it is worth many people would rather jump on someone rather than listen and try to respond with something good. Good post, I learned some things from it and no I have no idea where you are from or who the HC is.
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2007 10:00:48 GMT -6
some people really don't read what is posted and read into what you are saying, they simply look for a way to seem like they are some how better than you and point out that you are wrong and that you missed the boat. I think it would be appropriate to create another section titled "Holier Than Thou", because for what it is worth many people would rather jump on someone rather than listen and trty to respond with something good. Good post, I learned some things from it and no I have no idea where you are from or who the HC is. LMAO.....good one,sir! +5
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Post by coachorr on Dec 11, 2007 10:05:23 GMT -6
Brophy, there is no need to be kicking any dogs. You should be ashamed of yourself. Kicking dogs is wrong.
See what I mean?
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Post by airraider on Dec 11, 2007 10:07:55 GMT -6
Air Raider, the one thing I have noticed in many situations is that some peoplereally don't read what is posted and read into what you are saying, they simply look for a way to seem like they are some how better than you and point out that you are wrong and that you missed the boat. As far as BVrophy and SWGT, I thought their input was very good and I personally learned some good strategy and good advice, whereas others are just pointing out the fact that they are right and you are wrong. Regardless of the situaution. I think it would be appropriate to create another section titled "Holier Than Thou", because for what it is worth many people would rather jump on someone rather than listen and trty to respond with something good. Good post, I learned some things from it and no I have no idea where you are from or who the HC is. Not saying this in reference to anyone who has responded to this thread.. but in the past I have really noticed a great deal of situations where I felt as if people responded with what they felt would be the best for their image and not really how they would respond if on themselves were reading it. There are several people on here who always portray themselves in a different light, and I know I probably have been one of them from time to time. Bottom line.. I am not a great teacher of information that I do not find attractive.. That goes for the classroom as well.. I am a lazy coach from time to time.. I do not do all that I can to be the best coach all the time.. I do fall into the trap of complacency.. I have been in situations where I might not try as hard while working for someone else as I would if I were the one whose name was attached to the program. I have said some things both in practice and during games, which includes halftime that I probably should not have said in front of my kids. I have done some things in my career as a coach that would be seen as borderline unethical. I feel that those of us who have done these things before are constantly at odds with them and that we struggle to correct them. I am human, and I make mistakes.. My name is James Thurman.. and now you know.. that I am not a perfect coach.. and I am not always correct on anything.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 11, 2007 10:16:29 GMT -6
Well said Air Raider, however, I too am all of the above and I personally find it helpful to be able to talk to people who have insight on situations that I may not have expereinced or have never really stopped to think about. It does me no good when people point out that I am an idiot, I can do that on my own.
The one thing that really bothered me about the post was the HC missing the opportunity to do something for his assistants.
This year I went back to my alma mater and coachewd again where I started out. There were times when I felt like I was under-utilized and there were times that I felt like I got my toes stepped on. But, you know what made the difference in my experience?
The HC told the DC to stop by my house (I coached defense this year) and give me a Christmas gift crertificate to Wal-Mart for helping out this summer with a kids camp and tell me how much they appreciated my help.
We as coaches were not going to take any money from camps, because it just messes with our paychecks when they include it in thge check because taxes take most of it, so we agreed that we would put it back into the program. Well, that was not good enough for the HC, he found a way to reward us for our efforts and it was appreciated.
In otherwords, most of us don't do it for us, we do it for the kids and the sense of satisfaction. That said, it takes very little to make us happy. And it would seem to me that in this situation, the HC missed an important opportunity to show that he appreciates what his staff does.
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Post by coache67 on Dec 11, 2007 10:21:06 GMT -6
Go throw five Hail Mary's and subscribe to AFM and you will be absolved.
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Post by ajreaper on Dec 11, 2007 10:36:52 GMT -6
Go throw five Hail Mary's and subscribe to AFM and you will be absolved. Now that made me laugh- nice! But can we run 5 powers or Iso's instead of the hail mary's?
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Post by tog on Dec 11, 2007 11:07:58 GMT -6
that was cool airaider we all need to think about the things we have done wrong and the things we need to improve upon
it just makes you a good coach
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