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Post by coachnichols on Aug 30, 2007 16:57:21 GMT -6
PART 1 -
Alright...Saturday before the 1st game. Our scrimmage is at 10, opponent's is at 9. Film of each is to be traded later. I decide to go to the opponent's scrimmage for 15 or 20 minutes to see their D1 LB and RB in the flesh, knowing there's no way the coach is going to show anything special anyways. 10 minutes sitting there (scrimmage doesn't start on time of course), I am asked by the AD to leave the scrimmage. "He (the head coach) doesn't want you here." I say...wait! I'll get to that in a little while. First of all, why make me leave. Oh, and I forgot there was another team's staff there and they were told to leave to. I don't know why they left. I left because I didn't want to cause trouble, but it upset me to be asked to leave. Why make me leave, unless you are going to run something that won't be on the trade tape. It's not like we are any good (2 wins in last 3 years). They are the big time program with the 2 D1 "superstars", well the LB is legit, the RB isn't that amazing in my opinion.
Thoughts? There's more, but let me hear you on this part first if you don't mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2007 17:47:07 GMT -6
Personally, I don't get the value of scouting scrimmages for the very reasons you said about no one running anything special. But, that is bush league IMO to ask you to leave.
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Post by wildcat on Aug 30, 2007 18:59:41 GMT -6
If he really wanted to mess with you, he should have sent you a hotdog and a soda!
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mce86
Junior Member
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Post by mce86 on Aug 30, 2007 19:04:47 GMT -6
It happens alot. They feel if they arent at yours, you shouldnt be at theres.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 30, 2007 19:06:23 GMT -6
Yeah, I don't see the point in that; seems like a waste of effort. They're going to video tape it and give you the tape; you're not going to see anything different.
On the flip side, maybe he's afraid that you were there to try and steal their play calling signals. I've seen it happen before between same town rivals; one team sends someone to scout the play calling signals and see if they can pick something up.
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Post by coachnichols on Aug 30, 2007 19:27:51 GMT -6
Like I said, I honestly wanted to see the 2 best players in the state in person. I have never seen them play. Their schemes are simple and nothing was gained after watching film. Honestly, I believe something special was shown between clips...if you know what I'm saying.
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Post by brophy on Aug 30, 2007 20:23:44 GMT -6
I think it is absurd that state by-laws prohibit coaches from FILMING opponents games.....
If we want to dedicate a resource to make sure we get something right, why not? It makes the sport better.
Information is one thing, the application of that information is another (and what matters).
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Post by ajreaper on Aug 30, 2007 20:26:03 GMT -6
It's a public event and I presume the scrimmage is open to the public- which you are a member of then I'd tell them to kiss my butt I'm staying. They cannot have you removed because they think you are a "spy" or some crap. Some coaches, programs and administrators take themselves way to seriously for Christ sake.
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Post by wingt74 on Aug 30, 2007 20:41:46 GMT -6
It's a public event and I presume the scrimmage is open to the public- which you are a member of then I'd tell them to kiss my butt I'm staying. They cannot have you removed because they think you are a "spy" or some crap. Some coaches, programs and administrators take themselves way to seriously for Christ sake. Exactly, I would have responded with, "or else what?"
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Post by phantom on Aug 30, 2007 20:42:56 GMT -6
I have to say that, as "tough situations" go, this one doesn't strike me as that big of a deal. You missed five minutes of a scrimmage where you didn't expect to see anything anyway. Annoying? Yeah. IMO, though, there are a lot of other things to get worked up over.
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Post by ajreaper on Aug 30, 2007 21:35:04 GMT -6
You don't need to get worked up you just say no I'll be staying. What can they do? Have you removed/arrested for malicious watching? Why feed the ego's of a couple of horses butt's?
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Post by coachnichols on Aug 30, 2007 21:41:25 GMT -6
Here's the tough part...
PART 2
The AD of the other school is the one who asked me to leave. He and I are friendly, associates, etc. We're not pals, but we've taken Master's classes together and spoken many times over the past several years.
Basically I care very little for the HC of this team. He is not well thought of by people who know him, and I feel the same way. Well, in my anger at the situation and what he is trying to do, I say to the AD something about what the HC should go do, and I get up, shake his hand and leave. I go back to our school, scrimmage, watch film, and go home. Monday morning, I'm fired.
My HC half-heartedly (IMHO) tried to change their minds, but it was to no use. It was the right decision "for the image of the program" the principal said. Mind you, no one but their AD, HC, principal, and our HC, Principal, and me know anything about this. It wasn't a scene at all.
I am the first to admit, saying what I said was ignorant and done in the heat of the moment. If I could take it back, I would of course. Even at the time, before I got in trouble, I thought I shouldn't have said that.
Come to find out after the conversation, the principal never wanted to hire me in the first place, but the HC did, so they went along with it. Seems they were looking to get rid of me. Sucks for me, and I feel terrible about it. But what sucks most of all is the kids are left with no DC. First year for all the staff, the other 3 defensive coaches are either 1st year coaches or have 1-2 years freshmen experience. No one on staff knows our defense like I do because they're learning on the fly. Now, the HC has to do both at a program that is struggling to say the least. It seems like a tough situation to put kids in. I was feeling so good about our chances this year to start building something for the future. I am in no way saying they can't win because I'm not there. It's just this situation doesn't make it any easier on them. Tomorrow they go against the best RB in the state and probably the best one for many years. He's being recruited by all the big D1's. Lots of hype. Extremely tough kid to stop. I'll be there to watch and probably hide the water in my eyes, and I'm not being sarcastic. There's some great kids at North High.
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Post by phantom on Aug 30, 2007 22:02:02 GMT -6
The reason they're stuggling is the lack of administrative support. Thank your lucky stars that you got fired.
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Post by coachcoyote on Aug 31, 2007 0:07:17 GMT -6
Tough situation. We've all said things in the heat of anger and wished we hadn't. Sounds to me like the Principal is a real prince. An apology might have been in order, but firing? The kids will adjust. Sounds like the HC could have been more vocal in your behalf. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise.
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Post by wingt74 on Aug 31, 2007 6:44:30 GMT -6
yup, hopefully there is another team out there looking for a dedicated coach...who isn't these days?
Just try not to burn bridges. Coaching has a lot of politics to it.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 31, 2007 9:29:51 GMT -6
I agree with phantom; could be a blessing for you. I worked for several years under an administration that never backed the coaching staff up; on anything. Especially when it came to parents; we never had support on anything. I'm surprised the AD hasn't gone with a youth approach at the HS: demanding that all the jrs and srs get equal time on varsity.
I resigned there and am now in a much better situation; good administration that backs its coaches almost to the point of losing their own jobs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 14:53:21 GMT -6
Unfortunately, coach, I can relate to the part where you said the HC could have stood up for you more. At the last school I taught, I was not rehired. It isn't a real complicated story, but I don't want to get into it now. Anyway, I felt the English Department Chair could have said/done more for me, but didn't. It sucks when that happens.
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Post by coachjim on Sept 2, 2007 2:46:23 GMT -6
Man, what a load of crap. Don't get down on yourself, though. Sounds an awful lot like a set up. Too bad you admitted to what you said, usually when it's one individuals word against another, there isn't much that can be done.
As for asking you to leave, i'm immediately thinking you must be white. Because if you weren't, it's them that would be apologizing after you sued their pants off for discrimination.
Woulda coulda shoulda, weren't. I wish you the best of luck coach. Have you put in any other applications in somewhere else? I can't help but feel it's a blessing in disquise as well. Or shake the feeling that you got set up by both sides, somehow. Sometimes you can't even trust your own staff, let alone another school. Get back into the game, and soon. Don't dwell on it. Put out some apps, you never know. Again, good luck in the future, that is truly an all around crappy situation.
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 2, 2007 14:46:49 GMT -6
if you have a signed contract to receive money from a school district, it should list parameters for dismissal or reassignment. a hearing is usually required if no legal ramifications were involved (i.e. you got arrested or cited by the law). therefore, pursue the money. termination based on hearsay or an alleged verbal assault (which, i assume, will be their stance) without an investigation does not sound like a viable or legal reason for terminating one's contract or withholding money from them. i would chase the money and make sure that due process was followed
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