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Post by coachhan33 on Dec 19, 2007 11:43:31 GMT -6
What are the benefits and the down falls of going one way?
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Post by superpower on Dec 19, 2007 11:51:48 GMT -6
I don't see any downfalls if the team has the personnel to pull it off. We are a school of about 250 students in grades 9-12, and we get about 50 fb players in 9-12. For the past two years we have only had 4 two-way starters, and next year we may be able to have only 2-3 starting both ways. For us the biggest benefit has been that our OL are not playing defense so they stay very fresh and we can coach them and make adjustments during the game. The other big benefit is we have more kids (and therefore parents) happy about playing time, and as a result we have better overall buy-in.
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Post by rbush on Dec 19, 2007 12:30:34 GMT -6
This might hel. It's from Coach and Athletic Director
"If you had told me 10 years ago that our high school football team would be two-platooning, I would have laughed at you. My response would have been "We don't have enough players to do that" or "Our best players need to play as much as possible."
But for the past three years, our team of 50-60 players has been using a platoon system with excellent results (6-5,12-1,State Champions, 10-3 State Runner-ups).
The idea for this began three years ago when we graduated 18 seniors, most of whom had started since their sophomore year, We were faced with many holes to fill and we were coming off two very successful years -our first two back-to-back winning seasons in school history) 9-3 and 8-3.
We were transitioning into a new association and our opening game opponent was playing about 19 different players.
In the pre-season we encountered some injuries and sickness that caused us to consider playing some guys that we might have otherwise overlooked. By the time the starters returned, those younger guys had made an impression and had earned the right to play.
The reason we were able to post a 6-5 record that year is because we played a lot of players and our opponents played a lot of guys both ways.
Well, once you commit to platoon football, it changes the way you look at your team and your coaches.
A typical pre-platoon football practice lasted approximately two hours in length, split evenly with all the players learning an offensive and defensive position and only the starters and the main subs really getting involved in practice.
In reality, the starters were getting ¾ of the reps and the #2's getting the others. The others (3's and 4's) got very few if any reps and over 50% of the team not being engaged in practice after fundamentals. This can lead to very low morale and a sense of not contributing to the team's success.
Two-platoon football is hardly a new concept; but how do you do it in a small school setting? Most every team is capable of starting 22 different people, but the real challenge is how do you get quality back-ups ready.
Here is how we did it last year and it was the most enjoyable year we have had coaching as a staff:
First you need six coaches to make it work. We assign three coaches to each side of the ball.
The defensive coordinator (coaches LB/DE), an assistant for the defensive line, and an assistant for the defensive backs.
The offensive coordinator (which is me) coaches the QB's and running backs; an offensive line coach, and a receivers coach make up the other side.
Both the offense and the defense follow much the same practice schedule on opposite ends of the field. Practice is divided into 3 main parts: Fundamentals, Perimeter: (7 on 7), and Schemes (OL) and Pass Rush (DL), and Team Period. One of the assistants assumes the duty of running the scout team on each end of the field.
We have been able to expand our fundamental teaching time as well as include more sophisticated game plans on both sides of the ball. It also engages all our players during practice by having them fill the positions on the scout teams. These phases of practice take about 1:30 minutes of the practice schedule.
We then send all the offensive players to the defensive coaches to learn a second position and all the defensive players to the offensive players to learn their second position. This is an abbreviated period or 30-45 minutes.
We follow this practice schedule on Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday we go back a more standard Practice of every player going to the Defensive position first and then every player going to their offensive position. This allows us to work in our game night rotation with our subs.
We were taking a gamble when we went to this type of practice schedule. We got better each week and some of our non-starters got more reps and when injuries occurred they were ready to step in and help us win.
We originally thought we could never two-platoon, but we now believe we will never not play two-platoon football!"
By Bruce Lane, Athletic Director, Head Football Coach, Augusta (GA) Christian School
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Post by biggroff on Dec 19, 2007 22:03:43 GMT -6
Here is my thought on two platooning....
We have had one-way starters for over 6 years. We are a high school of about 400 boys. When we first started we had 95 players on three levels in the program and had 5 two way starters. WE made a commitment to 22 starters even though we did not have the athletes to do it. To our suprise we ended up with the same record as the two previous seasons (5-4) but with many more players involved and much happier parents. Then next season we did the same thing and went 4-5. In the third year we won 6, fourth year we won 7 the past three years. The biggest difference is that we went from 95 to 145 players in the program even though our school enrollment dropped 15. I will tell you that the direct reason why our numbers went up is that kids knew that 22 players would start. The other big differnece is in special teams. Since we have kids going one way that means that starters can play special teams. Our starting defense is the kickoff and punt return team. Out starting offense is our punt coverage and kickoff return team.
The hardest thing is to trust that you have 22 players that can start in the program. I think it would be tough to have 22 true starters if you have less than 350 boys in the school.
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 23, 2007 9:43:06 GMT -6
I have 2 thoughts on it.
I don't mind 2-platooning as long as you get your best 15 players on the field as much as possible they need to start on 2 of the 3 , offense, defense, special teams.
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Post by fbdoc on Dec 23, 2007 12:58:52 GMT -6
I used 2 platoon at 2 separate schools many years ago when I was first starting out. I had told myself that when I became a head coach I would go 2 platoon. One was a very small school and the other one was a bit larger. The first school we finished 7-3 (just one year -reduction in force) and the second we finished 3-6 ( changed the next year). At both we felt we got a lot out of the kids and obviously we played a lot more kids that we would have only going one way. I still remember the parent (and some administrator) comments though ... "you have to put your best players on the field" and "can you imagine how good we would be if so-n-so was a LB and a RB?". Had I been stronger as a young head coach I might have stuck with it. Since that time (mid 80's) I've grown up a bit but I've also never gone back to full 2 platoon because I just felt that for our situation, it would hurt more than help. If we had more kids then I would definitely go for it.
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 23, 2007 19:33:25 GMT -6
That brings up a valid question then fbdoc, how many kids do you need to have on a team to 2 platoon?
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Post by coachschro on Dec 23, 2007 19:42:36 GMT -6
We are a 4a school in Kansas (300 students) and we are going to it next year.
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Post by morris on Dec 23, 2007 19:59:28 GMT -6
We do it with about 40-55 players. We even were lucky enough to have almost a special teams unit. There is a number of things that allows us to do this and the biggest is offense and defensive systems.
In the past we featured 1 back carring the ball 20-25 times a game. So we have skill kids that we were not using on offense. We also do not use any "fatties" on defense. I think every single one of our guys on D has 1-49#. So our line got to rest and make adjustments and our RB got to stay fresh. The kids love it because they can get good at 1 position or so. It also helped in that we got to go 1s vs 1s all the time.
We feel we can play a a kid that is not as athletic because he is going to get a ton more reps. Now of course we can not put a kid out there who runs a 10 sec 40 or trips over his own feet. The question is how do you split up the players. I know some that pick a side of the ball and say the best 11 play on offense or defense and then you do what you can. I know some groups say that the Offense or defense gets first pick for certain positions and then they go from there.
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coachh
Junior Member
Posts: 336
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Post by coachh on Dec 24, 2007 6:19:00 GMT -6
HOw do you 2 plattooners break up practice? How do you work in a "best Period" for those kids to play both ways in a crucial situation. Any practice plans that anyone would love to share?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 15:47:02 GMT -6
Every school I have been associated with has 2 platooned. That said, I have always thought it was important to have a "GOLD" team or whatever, to get your best 11 offensive, or best 11 defensive players on the field. I have never been in a position to enact that strategy though, and I was wondering the same as coachh. How do you work that philosophy into practice? If you base out of a 2 platoon system, how do you work the individual skills of those best 11? Also, how do you handle the natural human response of those other guys who "aren't" on the "gold" team. That FS who is good enough to start on your regular defense, BUT..when the chips are down..he is out, and your athletic QB is in...
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 24, 2007 16:52:01 GMT -6
I know this much, my athletic Qb is sitting on the sideline and that FS is playing, becuase is that FS going to be able to play QB and do we have anyone else that can step up and take his place f he gets hurt on D and we need him in the next series at O. I feel if a kid is "good enough" to start then he is starting regardless if we have an athletic QB because we need him running the offense!
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Post by coach79 on Dec 24, 2007 17:04:55 GMT -6
That brings up a valid question then fbdoc, how many kids do you need to have on a team to 2 platoon? Not to be a smart a$$ but 22.... If I had the kids to 2 platoon then I definetly would I think that it helps keeps kids fresh going down the stretch, you also usually have a happier team because more kids are getting to play. -Brett
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 17:21:13 GMT -6
coach goodnight...the QB was just an arbitrary selection of position. It could have been TB, WR, etc. Or it could have been that hard working OL who gets taken out and replaced by your stud DT to get your "best 11" on the field. The idea was ---how does a coach handle the natural human conflict that occurs when you start 22, but sub in some two way players in "crunch time"
Coach79-- I think what was being asked was..in general.. about how many players do you need on a squad to be able to field 22 decent starters. I know that is a very vague question, but I think that is what dawhip was trying to ask
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 24, 2007 17:55:18 GMT -6
Coachd5805........ I was able to draw that conclusion as I would think that you would be able to do the same with my reply...... yes I know and understand that as was the explanation of the player "good enough to start" but having that "stud" I was just usung that same scenario just as you were. The Bada$$ DT that can also play TE or the Rb that can play LB..... scenario is all the same all across the board, I do understand what you were talking about and I was just apllying the same to the same situation.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 17:59:06 GMT -6
goodnight---I don't really follow you clearly. Are you saying then, that you don't believe in the concept of a "special" unit with the best 11 on the field at some point in time?
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 24, 2007 18:09:14 GMT -6
No Im not saying that but I am saying that regardless I am not taking any chances, Im not gonna put my "athletic qb" on the field to play defense when I have a guy perfectly capable of playing the position as with any other position on the field. They start where they start for a reason and Im just not gonna take any chances. Its like saying coach you have coached the Defense but the OC seems to do a better job in this situation so I am letting him call your defense. If he is "good enough to start the he is good enough to stay. Just because someone is "athletic" doesnt mean they can play the position better. As for as "special unit" they are my starters thats what makes them "special"
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 18:29:24 GMT -6
to each his own...but I don't think your analogy really holds true here. In the scenario, I am talking about taking out the 5'10 195 4.7 guy who has done a really good job, and has been starting because you two platoon...and replacing him with the 6'1 210 lb guy who runs the 4.4 and is going to LSU because it is the last drive of the state semi final game. I guess to try and piggy back on your analogy...it would be "hey coach HS DC...you have been doing a good job all year, but this week we are playing Bill Walshes team, so I am going to let our OC...Bill Belicheck kind of take over the reigns....
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 24, 2007 18:38:11 GMT -6
We could go back an forth on this and as they say the one with the chalk last wins. I still would not take the chance because if he gets injured on Defense, we stop them and get the ball back, then you go on the field with the offense and your Qb is sitting on the sideline hurt, his being 6'1" 210 going to LSU is not gonna do you any good cause he is hurt, and now you have the back-up to rely on.... well I just know what chioce I would make, and as you say, to each his own.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 24, 2007 18:54:34 GMT -6
yes... but he could also be perfectly healthy, sitting on the sideline, watching a lesser player get beat in the biggest game of the year....
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Dec 24, 2007 19:04:25 GMT -6
the one with the chalk last wins.... as I said we can go back and forth about this, and the starter could have dont just as good a job too.
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Post by coach79 on Dec 25, 2007 1:10:13 GMT -6
Coach79-- I think what was being asked was..in general.. about how many players do you need on a squad to be able to field 22 decent starters. I know that is a very vague question, but I think that is what dawhip was trying to ask I know I was trying to be a smart a$$.
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