|
Post by warrior53 on Jul 14, 2007 15:00:47 GMT -6
Why do so many people have such a dislike towards Tony Franklin and his system of offense, clinics, etc. I am involved in another discussion on a different board about this and I am at a loss as to why there is so much disdain towards him. Can anyone let me in on the reasons?
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Jul 14, 2007 16:08:32 GMT -6
Probably has something to do with the cost and secrecy.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Jul 14, 2007 16:16:14 GMT -6
$2500 turns a LOT of people off. However, if you weigh the value of the time it takes to consolidate all that information and teach it in a comprehensive manner, to some, it might be worth it.
I would say the system is sound. The system you could get from a LOT of Gulf Coast programs who run it (for free).
But if you're going to invest money in developing your offense, whether it is Double Wing, Gun Veer, Air Raid, whatever.......plunking down the $3k would be worth it. Get it over with.
It is a matter of perception.
|
|
|
Post by CVBears on Jul 14, 2007 16:17:32 GMT -6
In one of Pat Ruel's lectures (I think it is his OZ tape from FCPGA) he talks about the power of secrecy. Tell one kid a secret and everyone wants to know it and others will be *upset* if they don't know it. ah, psychology
|
|
|
Post by ttowntiger on Jul 14, 2007 19:43:27 GMT -6
You can get basically the same information for free fro guys like Mumme and Hatcher. Basically, all Franklin did was add a few little twists to Mumme's sytem. From what I've heard, he also goes into extreme detail about the finer points of the offense. But that info is probably already out there at little or no cost- you just have to dig and research a bit and do an in-depth study of the offense. Personally, I think Franklin takes way too much credit as being the be all, end all "guru" of the Air Raid offense. Like I said, he didn't even create the system. Neither did Mumme, for that matter. I wonder if Franklin is giving royalties to guys like Norm Chow, LaVell Edwards, and Hal Mumme for the outrageous sums of money he makes from their offense. I think not!!!!
|
|
|
Post by gulfcoastoffense on Jul 14, 2007 23:01:37 GMT -6
The problem I had when "The System" first became popular around us is that a coach in your region already running his offense could call him and have you blackballed from attending his clinics. Personally, I think he is a nut because on every one of his documents it says something about "trust noone, guard this with your life, dont show to anyone" when in fact you can research enough to find out about it, just as ttowntiger mentioned. Hatcher didnt charge me or any other coach anything extra for listening to him talk about the mesh and the shallow, the screens, the runs, etc. at a clinic. My registration fee was paid just like everyone elses. There are many schools that run something similar that didnt pay the $3000 and won state championships. Yes, its a proven system, but so is the wing t, west coast, run and shoot, and the list goes on.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Jul 14, 2007 23:26:55 GMT -6
There are several guys on this board who shelled out the cash for Franklin's system and they have nothing but good things to say about it.
Personally, I'd never pay that amount of money for any system; especially not when you can get so much information on this site alone.
|
|
|
Post by airraider on Jul 15, 2007 6:51:02 GMT -6
I think it all boils down to if you want it but cant afford it, you get jealous about it. In which case you act like its such a bad thing because you cant have it.
|
|
|
Post by wildcat on Jul 15, 2007 8:31:38 GMT -6
I think it all boils down to if you want it but cant afford it, you get jealous about it. In which case you act like its such a bad thing because you cant have it. I think that pretty much sums it up... Most important part about selling something is in the way you market it...Franklin is an exellent salesman and I don't think it is fair to criticize the guy for being a capitalist!
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 15, 2007 15:23:37 GMT -6
I think most of the discontent stems from the fact that he didn't solely develop this idea or system, but he is the only one to promote and market it, WHILE "demanding" secrecy. He accumulated public information, and is promoting it as "secret" info.
Now, I can't say you can fault him for making the $$$$, and you are probably paying for a level of expertise and support. If you value that, it is probably a bargain.
|
|
|
Post by falcon661 on Jul 15, 2007 16:17:30 GMT -6
I do not know how he could copyright it, especially most of those concepts were not initially his. I like the offense and do not have a problem with Tony, but think the price is way too high. I don't have a problem with a fee but 2500-3500 and having to renew each year for so much. Football should be about the free flowing of ideas to help other coaches, but to have people sign an oath that they will not share is crazy.
|
|
|
Post by ttowntiger on Jul 15, 2007 16:25:11 GMT -6
I do not know how he could copyright it, especially most of those concepts were not initially his. I like the offense and do not have a problem with Tony, but think the price is way too high. I don't have a problem with a fee but 2500-3500 and having to renew each year for so much. Football should be about the free flowing of ideas to help other coaches, but to have people sign an oath that they will not share is crazy. Exactly! That would be like me or some other coach taking Mouse Davis or June Jones' run and shoot and marketing as my own idea and making a killing off of it. Now if he simply would give others credit for creating the offense and simply advertised his program as something to help install the offense, I wouldn't have a problem with it. If people want to spend $2500-$3000, that's their business. But Franklin seems to make it out like he is the only Air Raid "guru" out there and he is the only one who knows how to install and run the offense. He shouldn't market the offense as his own creation when it's not. I would call that a form of plagarism. From what I've seen, he also added a few little twists to the offense so he can market it as "his" offense.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 15, 2007 18:08:07 GMT -6
I don't know anything about the system, but I would be willing to bet that he is indeed marketing "HIS" offense, complete with HIS philosophies, HIS implementation schedule, HIS tweaks.etc. Now, like I said, i don't know if he represents that all of this was from the ground up, or if he built on the works of others.
Much like other consulting/professional services activities, HIS expertise is what you are paying for, not his invention. If you go to a public accounting firm, they didn't invent public accounting, you are paying for their professional service and expertise. Those firms will not allow their methodologies to be made public.
|
|
|
Post by warrior53 on Jul 16, 2007 12:05:33 GMT -6
Well said coachd5085 - and by the way - he gives all the credit that is due to Mumme, Leach and Hatcher.
|
|
|
Post by shamespiral on Jul 16, 2007 15:07:35 GMT -6
Warrior this is the difference between here and TOC. We can have a rational discussion here. Not a big fan of TFS per my statements on TOC. TFS does not allow me the flexibility that I personally desire. More importantly I can't justify the expenditure. If I spent that kind of cash I would rather bring in a consultant to work with my staff in an individual manner or go to a college and get the info from them. Now back to TOC where we can make personal comments and degrade one another.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2007 6:24:25 GMT -6
What I think is funny is that we all spend money to go to a clinic and hear guys tell us what they do and how they do it. We'll all readily admit that football coaches borrow from each other on EVERYTHING.
So I think it's funny that a guy can say "shh don't tell anybody" and people listen to it. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to keep it quiet necessarily.
But give the guy credit for good marketing. I would absolutely love to get paid to go around the country and teach the defense that I learned from so many places (including some guys on this board).
For me, though, I don't want it all packaged up in a box. I want to go to a clinic, want to figure it out how it works best. I want the challenge of putting together a package.
|
|
|
Post by warrior53 on Jul 17, 2007 7:08:23 GMT -6
shamespiral - did you see they took the thread off TOC - I don't know what the final blow was.
|
|
|
Post by shamespiral on Jul 17, 2007 16:20:34 GMT -6
Yeah me niether. No name calling or anything. I guess they wanted to cut it off before people started calling out such and such school.
|
|