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Post by ogie4 on Jan 19, 2006 10:05:36 GMT -6
There is an intersting question posed on the Old Coach Board. However, it turned into name calling and nothing was really educational. This board is much more civil and I wanted to hear your thoughts pro and Con. Post your own thoughts, no opinion bashing please. This is something all of us will face one day in our profession and something all of us could learn from
Player A (who is a stud) gets busted for drinking before a big game, (lets assume your state or school district does not have clear policies for this situation) What do you as a coach do?
Player B (who is not a stud/ but is a role player) has a run in with a teacher and gets ISS or is suspended. Same big game. What do you do?
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Post by brophy on Jan 19, 2006 10:19:16 GMT -6
You have to do whatever you outlined in your player conduct prior to the season begining.
The kids you give 'extra leniency' to always end up biting you in the *** later down the road.
If you don't do that, Use your player council to determine a just consequence to be accountable to the team.
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Post by dmckillip on Jan 19, 2006 10:48:59 GMT -6
Suspend them both. Must send the right message to the team and the community.
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Post by outlawzheadcoach on Jan 19, 2006 10:50:16 GMT -6
As a coach I would suspend both players for the violations. I have no tolerance for people being disrespectful to authority and have absolutely NO TOLERANCE for underage drinking in any form and especially my players. They have a set of rules that will be put forth by the school district that they must follow and I will also have a policy that if there are any violations in those rules that result in a suspension from school they will be suspended from the games until reinstated by the school district. As far as the drinking thing goes Ill probabl suspend them for at least 2 games becuase they need to be held responsible for their actions and if you dont gice some form of punishment then they will think that what they did was ok and continue to do so. I would also be available to talk to them and help them with one on one sessions any time they need it!
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Post by airman on Jan 19, 2006 11:00:18 GMT -6
well seeing how players must sign a code of conduct contract at the schools i have been at, they clearly know the rules.
I major league baseball locker rooms in bold print is the pete rose rule. do not gamble on the game.
in our locker room, the rules are painted on the wall for them to see daily.
you could be the presidents child and if you were caught drinking, it is a automatic 1 game suspension.
true story here, I had a peaceloving 1960s flower child for a principal. two of my 9th graders got in a fight, (with each other i might add) and my principal said"i think you should give them some extra pushups and situps instead of suspending them" I mean I love the guy, he is funny but discipline, is just not in his nature. I told him, i you come administer the pushups and situps during practice today for these boys, I will not suspend them.
sure enought the prinicpal was out there putting those two boys through the drills. I even think he kind of liked it.
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Post by ogie4 on Jan 19, 2006 12:31:12 GMT -6
Sound advice. Most states, schools have policies governing these issues. Some, including the area I work,have very vague and diluted policies. As a coach do most of you feel it is better to have posted rules and consequences, or go by the guidepost of do the right thing and treat every offense individually?
Also how often do ya'll address these issues proactively with your kids, such as mention "do the right thing" after workouts, etc, and do you feel it helps cut down on these issues?
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Post by donaldduck on Jan 19, 2006 13:12:14 GMT -6
I didn't post on TOC because of the stuff you mentioned before ogie. I've never been in the situation when a state championship or anything like that was on the line, but as a subvarsity coach, everybody knew my rules, and if they didn't abide by them, they didn't get on the bus. I left studs and scrubs at home in big games. As a varsity assistant coach, I don't make those calls, and I won't second guess the man that does. Personal opinion, a kid that screws his team once will do it again. I won't sacrifice my ethics, regardless of how much I want that ring.
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Post by ogie4 on Jan 19, 2006 14:37:54 GMT -6
This is coming from a player's viewpoint (even though I haven't played in a couple years...), but sometimes it almost felt like the coaches didn't know/didn't care that the rest of the players would find out if someone was left off easy. When I know someone got busted for underage drinking (which is a HUGE problem up here), and they are practicing with the rest of the team the day after, there is respect lost amongst the other players for the coaches and that player. If you can't trust your teammates, it's going to be tough to work together 100% on the field. It's not fair to the rest of the players who are following the rules/laws when you let someone off easy with a big offense like underage drinking, or drugs, or whatever. Great point! A perspective we don't always think about, how it is perceived by the rest of the team. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 19, 2006 14:44:43 GMT -6
good rule to abide by:
NEVER mortgage the team by letting 1 player abuse a rule or policy. that will eventually hurt the overall team and the future of the program.
hardest thing to steer is a ship and if it starts going the wrong way, it takes a long time to turn around!!!!
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Post by fort on Jan 19, 2006 15:37:55 GMT -6
I forgot to mention how bad the TOC board is. They act like a bunch of 8 year olds with all of the immature namecalling and such. It reminds me not to take this board for granted...
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Post by ogie4 on Jan 19, 2006 15:47:10 GMT -6
Serious question, not looking for controvery, just the opposite side of the coin....Does anyone believe these situations are not really germane (insert your smokey and the bandit quotes) to the athletic program and are double punishment for the kiddo in trouble and only hurt the team when they are punished for something that happened outside of the fieldhouse, school setting?
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Post by brophy on Jan 19, 2006 15:53:29 GMT -6
 I haven't always followed it....but ya gotta remember doing the 'wrong' thing is always the EASY thing. It is VERY EASY to justify that 'star' player into playing again /soon. |
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Post by ogie4 on Jan 19, 2006 19:58:22 GMT -6
I didn't post on TOC because of the stuff you mentioned before ogie. I've never been in the situation when a state championship or anything like that was on the line, but as a subvarsity coach, everybody knew my rules, and if they didn't abide by them, they didn't get on the bus. I left studs and scrubs at home in big games. As a varsity assistant coach, I don't make those calls, and I won't second guess the man that does. Personal opinion, a kid that screws his team once will do it again. I won't sacrifice my ethics, regardless of how much I want that ring. Excellent point about loyalty to the head coach if they make a decision concerning discipline you disagree with. Might be a whole other question to ponder. Often our opinions differ from those who have employed us. I agree the Head Coach is there to make those desicions and below the pay grade of an assistant..Right Or Wrong. |
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Post by los on Jan 19, 2006 22:50:05 GMT -6
ogie, our coach punished most rule violators with before and after practice grass drills and wind sprints and worse stuff, in front of the team sometimes, so we actually only felt pity for them not like they were getting a free ride or anything. He applied this punishment equally to all, for in school and outside offenses. For any serious legal violations the coaches and players had to vote on whether the kid could stay on and take punishment drills or had to quit! Some players would refuse to be punished and therefore quit on their own(easy descision). People make mistakes and as long as they pay their dues, who cares? After watching a few of these punishment sessions, most of us were happy to keep our noses clean! We had several underage drinking, curfew violations, fights in school-etc... and a few got in trouble outside school with the law but most chose to take their butt whippins like men and remain on the team! I guess we all loved playing football so the extra pain was worth it? I do recall when our 6'4"/210 star tailback was caught shoplifting and arrested, we had to vote whether to keep him on or not, the majority voted yes- he took his severe punishment drills and sat out the 1st half of the next game and all was forgiven. The kid never got in any more trouble!
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211 
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Post by smd on Jan 20, 2006 6:38:46 GMT -6
1. any action on or off campus that embarrasses the school, team, or yourself, that player will be punished according to the descretion of the coach.
I know a coach that didn't like punishing the team (sit out x number of games) for the action of players. so he would punish them before/after practice or before school. His rule is the one i posted above.
at the school i am at now: we follow the parish or school guidelines for arrest. if it is not a felony charge, he can play. (this is where we could apply the above rule if we stated it at the beginning of the year). If he is in ISS, then he can play. ( we do increments of 500 yards of grass drills for each time they are in ISS, Detention, or Suspension. It doubles for each offense.) If they are suspended, then they cannot play.
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baraboo99
Sophomore Member
[F4:ryan.andersen33]
Posts: 205
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Post by baraboo99 on Jan 20, 2006 8:31:48 GMT -6
What kind of rules do you guys have in regards to their academics?
For my junior teams I have pretty strict academic rules, because #1 football here is not school sponsored so therefore its done in their free time, and #2 an education is far more important then football.
I make the kids show me their grades every week, I also monitor the classes they are taking. Unless he is a special needs child he shouldnt be taking freshman and sophomore level core courses, which some football players did at my school. If he is below a C average, he is not allowed to practice again until his grade is brought up. I also set up a study table on Saturday nights for any guys who needed help.
Luckily the kids (and most importantly their parents) bought into the system. I know if I had done something like this in the States I probably would have been run out of town. But 70% of my players made the equivelant to the honor roll, which I am very proud of.
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fish
Junior Member
Posts: 485
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Post by fish on Jan 20, 2006 10:30:38 GMT -6
its not double punishment, its one of the consequences. as people stated earlier, you must have violations and consequences clearly stated in the code of conduct that is signed by the athlete and the parent.
even if the offense took place outside of the school setting/event they are still representing and will be reported to whatever news publication as a student/athlete for that school.
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jman
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by jman on Jan 20, 2006 22:53:06 GMT -6
Where I am at, this is all handled by the administration. Our hands are tied. They have a policy they follow and rarely ask our opinion. Although we are left out of the equation, it is often a good thing. It really makes things easier on the coaching staff. Not that I want to shuck the responsibility but I am glad I dont always have to be the "heavy". The players know what the policy is and hopefully they will follow it.
p.s. we have good administrators.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 21, 2006 3:08:31 GMT -6
In 2000 we had an underachieving team that was 1-1 in our conference (the team we lost to ended up being in next to last place), 3-3 overall. Our conference had one automatic playoff bid. At Monday’s practice (film and walk through), I had learned that several of our players were drinking at a party over the weekend. Our policy was a two game suspension- 1 game if the players self reported. During stretch, I told them what I had heard and told them to walk by me one by one and tell me if 1) they were at the party and 2) if they were drinking. Thirteen players were there and drinking (the dirty “baker’s dozen”)… 11 of them were starters, accounting for 15 starting spots. We HAD to win our last four games. I suspended all 13. We started almost all sophomores against our most fierce rival. We ended up winning 22-15...and didn’t lose again until the semi-finals (21-17 loss…great game). As a side note, our volleyball team was 14-0 at the time. Their players were told “do not admit to anything” (did we really believe that 150 kids watched 13 football players drink???) They didn’t. They also ended up getting upset in regionals and did not make it to the state tournament. We ended up 9-4. To this day, players from that team still say that they will never forget 1) getting busted, 2) watching us beat our rival while they could do nothing but work the little guys during the week and cheer them on in the game and 3) winning the next 3 regular season games against good teams (48-14, 49-20 and 34-14) to qualify for state. Every one of them said that was the best thing that ever happened to them…even though they did not like it. I have never forgotten that. If I let those guys play, I am convinced that we not only would have lost that game, but would have lost at least 2 of the next 3 and ended up 3-7 or 4-6... for what that’s worth….
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