nannother
Sophomore Member
GREATEST RB EVER
Posts: 122
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Post by nannother on May 22, 2007 14:54:45 GMT -6
Does a coordinator have to have the ability to coach each position in order to be competent? If not, what should he know?
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Post by airitout616 on May 22, 2007 15:16:03 GMT -6
I think he needs a basic knowledge of each postion. On D I feel it starts with coverage and gap control if you have a sound game plan for coverage and gap control I feel you have a solid D. On O I feel blocking pass and run blocking is first and formost. But I feel ALOT of coaches know how to put there ideas on paper but good DC and OC know how to teach and cord. what they want on the field.
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Post by tvt50 on May 22, 2007 15:42:53 GMT -6
On defense I believe it starts with stopping the run. If you cant stop the run, good luck winning.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2007 15:52:57 GMT -6
I'm a DC and have coached in our 4-3, a Flex, a 4-4, a 50, etc. Have coached ILB, OLB, Walk-up LBs, Flex backers, corners, safeties, cover 2, 3, etc. and I think what it all comes down to is knowing what you need, what it should look like it, and how it comes down to it.
Here's the funny thing, I'm not sure I could coach DL. I know exactly what I want from them and how to explain to the coach what I want, but I'm not sure how they get it there. But if it isn't the way I want it then I can explain why it isn't.
So I don't think you need to be able to coach it all, but you better darn well know what you're trying to achieve. That said, in a pinch I think a DC needs to be able to cover where he's needed.
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Post by brophy on May 22, 2007 15:54:47 GMT -6
yes yes and yes.
I think you're fooling yourself if you think you can coordinate positions that you really don't have an understanding of what they can (and can't) do. How are you going to correct (coach up) your asst DB coach if all you know is DL stunts?
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Post by bulldog on May 22, 2007 17:09:16 GMT -6
I agree with Brophy. When I make our practice plans, I create a plan that tells each of the position coaches what I expect them to cover. For example, if I am installing a defense that slants the DL, blitzes a LB, and uses cover 2 . . . . I want the DL coach to teach slant technique, the LB coach to cover pressure blitzes and the DB coach to teach re-route and force. When I talk with our JV or freshman coaches, they should see me as a resource - the guy who know the defense top-to-bottom. And thats the same way that the varsity assistants should see me. A good DC can step-in and coach any position. And if any coach on the staff needs to know how to teach a technique, or what drills work best, the DC should be the ultimate resource. This makes sure that all parts of the defense are cohesive.
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Post by brophy on May 22, 2007 19:34:25 GMT -6
here is a better question, what makes you think the opposite would be true? HOW is this kind of coordinator calling plays? WHAT is his rationale behind the play calls & installation plan?
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Post by fbdoc on May 22, 2007 20:39:39 GMT -6
I don't think you need to be an "Expert" at each position but you need to know your scheme and the skills needed for success. More importantly, IF you are a DC right now, you need to KNOW what you don't know, and then make sure your position coaches know it, and then do your best to increase your skill set in that area(s).
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Post by saintrad on May 22, 2007 21:47:14 GMT -6
to be a truly effective coordinator you need to also have worked the other side of the ball. this will allow you to understand their ways of attacking you and how to get you to do what they want.
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Post by wingman on May 22, 2007 22:02:55 GMT -6
I definately agree it helps to have worked both sides of the ( DC for 18 years, HC/OC for 4 ) . On defense as on offense, the more you know, the better you can be. It's easiest to transition from coaching lbers because you should already understand fronts and coverage. That's where I started from, but as I learned secondary in depth, I was definately a better DC than when I only had a basic understanding of coverages. As an OC I think you have to understand the off. line first.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on May 25, 2007 22:33:17 GMT -6
Simple here coach, "You can't expect what you cannot inspect." "Don't run nothing you can't fix...period." Coordinators have to know their stuff, usually enough to set drills in place, correct the position coaches, know as much as possible about every single nuance of the defense or offense you are running. I can't see any OC not knowing exactly what each player is doing at all times in every single play they put on the field. Same with a DC. The position coaches are "extentions" of your hands and mind. You can't see everything, but you can sure enough know where and what is supposed to happen. Of course just my opinion, which is worth what you paid for it. OJW
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Post by coachjaz on May 25, 2007 23:10:54 GMT -6
IMO you have to be able to coach every position on that side of the ball if you are going to coordinate. I also believe to be an HC, you have to be able to coach every position on the field.
To coordinate an offense for instance, I feel you need to know what every player should be doing on every single play you install, and you should know how that player needs to execute the technique that he needs to know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2007 7:21:36 GMT -6
I think I'm trying to dissect a gnat's hair right now but I think there's a difference in what we're saying between "knowing what every player is doing" and "able to coach every position."
I can tell you what every guy on our defense is doing at any single moment, how I want it done, why I want it done like that, and how it changes if something different happens. But I've never had to teach a defensive lineman how to do it. I know on a zone dog with the Nose crossing the center's face where I want his feet, arms, head, but I don't have the turns at teaching that. I'm relying on my DL guy to teach it. I'm calling on his experience to do that. But I will ask how he does it and I will watch the drill to see that they're learning what I want them to do.
And there's a reason why I don't know how to teach all those DL techniques--because I spent the first 7 years of my career learning everything about and coaching linebackers and the last 9 years with defensive backs.
I think I'm a decent LB coach, I think I'm a pretty good CB coach, I think I'm a good safeties coach, I think I could coach DL, but I don't think I'd be as good at it right now as I'd like to be. My girlfriend could coach our corners. . .though probably not as well as she'd handle our linebackers.
Point is, a good coach (coordinator or not) could coach most things and figure them out though maybe not be as thorough as need be.
But I'll go all the way in saying that the DC should know what's happening everywhere, why, how, and when. And he better know when it's wrong. But I'm also great at analyzing what goes wrong in a golf swing and have fixed a lot of people's swings---but I can't play the game to save my life.
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Post by brophy on May 29, 2007 8:08:25 GMT -6
how do you grade your players if you don't know what is the right/wrong technique?
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Post by saintrad on May 29, 2007 9:39:28 GMT -6
so as an offensive coordinator how can i coach something i have never played. i was an option QB and free safety....how can i teach my OG/OT how to double team on the OSV if ihavent played it.I really dont think that there is one coach that has played all the positions on the team, all 30 plus of them. But as a coach I have coached most positions on offense and defense, so you are saying that if i havent coached all of them I shouldnt be a coordinator? the sign of a good coach is the ability to communicate their knowledge to the other coaches and their players. SO shouldn't the ability to communicate also rate up their as a prerequiste to being a coordinator? I may not have specific knowledge ofthe O-line but i can guarentee you one thing I will know what they need to do regardless of the fact I havent coached line in 15 yrs or so.
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Post by fbdoc on May 29, 2007 9:52:35 GMT -6
I still believe it's hard to be an "expert" at every position. I've been coaching for a LONG time and I don't know if I would call myself an expert at more than one position (maybe not even that!).
As the coordinator you need to know your overall scheme and how each position is involved. You also need to have your position coaches placed so their skill levels are being used to the best of their abilities. Some assistants might only be ready to teach the basic skills, as opposed to schemes and adjustments, which another assistant might handle during a group period. Now should the coordinator be able to DO (coach) all of that? Yes, but he probably won't be an expert in every area simply because he needs to have a more global view of the defense.
This may simply be a semantics issue but I think a good coordinator will empower and encourage his assistants to become experts in their OWN area, while also learning more about the big picture and the other positions in the scheme.
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Post by easye17 on May 29, 2007 20:19:13 GMT -6
I think in order to be a good coach you have to be a good teacher. As a coach, you can learn technique. One of my best high school coaches actually never played the game beyond his 9th grade year. But he could teach you what you needed to know. The X's and O's and technique he learned about as he grew up coaching.
As for being an OC/DC, I would think this applies too. You might not be a master at every position on the field, but if push came to shove, you'd be able to coach the position in a jam or have the flexibility to make a position change during the offseason and still bet a great position coach. Schematically, you'd better be good with X's and O's and what everyone is doing ... or else maybe your head coach lost his mind.
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Post by brophy on May 30, 2007 16:52:38 GMT -6
If you are hiring a manager for your burger stand.... he had better know what his subordinates need to be doing he had better know how to instruct his subordinates on what they are supposed to be doing he had better know how to "fix" things when those subordinates screw up. he had better be able to produce ANSWERS as a confident leader he had better know how to direct ALL his subordinates at one time to efficiently get great production Otherwise, that guy is just a puppet. You're only as good as your biggest weakness. Same deal with Coordinating. I played DL in college. I feel I am a better DB, LB, & QB coach than I am a DL coach....but I feel I confident coaching any position. What you played has no real relevance on coaching (IMO). Could you EFFECTIVELY coach every position for the entire season? If yes, then you should have a firm grasp of what you are asking your players to do. If no, then you are relying on your assistant to be the be-all-end-all for that position. I don't think I could trust that situation, because now I'd be at the mercy of my subordinates.
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Post by coachorr on May 30, 2007 17:25:02 GMT -6
So many OC's think that a play action fake or a route or a misdirection in the backfield is what is going to get it done. I have seen play sheets with only the backfield action. I say this all the time and it is like I might as well be talking to myself, "If you can't block it or protect it, you can't run it or throw it". Period.
Well my friends, success is won in two major aspects of the game A. the scheme and B. The tiniest of details. You better be competent on all levels if you want to be successful, or you are just kidding yourself. If you think small items like, should we gap it or zone it are irrelevant, then you shouldn't mind losing games by close margins. It's like Brophy says, "you are at the mercy of your subordinates". I am not sure I would be comfortable with that either.
If it doesn't work in practice or it cannot be fixed, then highly likely it will not work in a game. Just my two cents.
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