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Post by wingman on Jul 4, 2007 15:00:47 GMT -6
Why do Wing T guys have the cult rep? I was one for a few years
as you can tell from the name. In my experience the DW guys are pretty inbred too. I can't say about option because there's so few of us out here.
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Post by tog on Jul 4, 2007 16:39:45 GMT -6
i don't think it centers on any system so much as it does a group of people that all learned from the same trees and believe in what they do for good reasons
even amongst wing-t people, there are about a jillion variations of it and people that call themselves wing-t coaches that me, as just someone that has studied wing-t but never really run it whole hog, would just say, "that doesn't look wing-t to me"
the "cult" thing that comes out at times is ok, as long as there is a healthy respect for other styles and other ways of doing things
it always boils down to what gets your kids in best position to make a play
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Post by brophy on Jul 4, 2007 17:04:35 GMT -6
personally, I don't see anything "cultish" about wing-t or flexbone or whatever.... the only thing that becomes "cultish" is all self-imposed. Where you SHUT OUT all other ideas and can't relate to the rest of the 'industry' because of your narrow-mindedness....it naturally leads to allusions to    |
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Post by Yash on Jul 4, 2007 18:00:59 GMT -6
I don't see it as a cult just guys who buy into their system. Guys who run the same system tend to chat it up a lot to see how they can improve what they are doing. If you are a wing T guy you don't go to a air raid guy for a better way to seal the end off on buck sweep. I can see why you'd say its a cult but I think its more just like kinds sticking together. Same as most systems I think.
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 4, 2007 19:01:50 GMT -6
Sure the Wing T will work against bad defenses. But when you play teams that have equal talent you had better be able to THROW the football. That is why I don't care much for the Wing T, here in Ohio at the Division 1 Level it's a tough sell against the speed you see. You need a more balanced attack.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 4, 2007 19:08:36 GMT -6
Well, I think it kind of an offshoot of what both Brophy and Yash said. Because of the uniqueness of the Wing-T and Dbl wing, you sort of do shut out other influences and possibilities, because they don't fit into the uniqueness of the system. For the same reason, you tend to use other coaches of the system as a sounding board for ideas, and thus the "cultishness" perception begins
I think a better question is why does the stigma that Briangilbert just put forward exist? I see this constantly... people bashing the wing T or Dbl Wing as offenses that only work against bad teams, or slow teams...or being too one dimensional (I know the wing isn't ..I would probably say that the dbl wing is more so)
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Post by brophy on Jul 4, 2007 19:16:57 GMT -6
You believe in Christ?.....you're a Christian.
oh, no.....
you think Jesus had brown hair? you're a Catholic
you think Jesus had blonde hair? you're a Protestant
you think Jesus had black hair? you're a Baptist
you think Jesus had red hair? you're a Methodist
you think Jesus was bald? you're a Morman
you think Jesus wore baseball caps? you're a Jehovah Witness
sorry that my Theology isn't up to snuff, but you get the point - people take basic premises of a philosophy, and turn into zealots with their own dogma.
Then you have various factions based off those classifications.
The Augie Wing-T isn't the Delware Wing-T, isn't the Charlie Brown Wing-T or the Bob Jones FaceMelting Wing-T.
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Post by khalfie on Jul 4, 2007 21:17:57 GMT -6
You believe in Christ?.....you're a Christian. oh, no..... you think Jesus had brown hair? you're a Catholic you think Jesus had blonde hair? you're a Protestant you think Jesus had black hair? you're a Baptist you think Jesus had red hair? you're a Methodist you think Jesus was bald? you're a Morman you think Jesus wore baseball caps? you're a Jehovah Witness sorry that my Theology isn't up to snuff, but you get the point - people take basic premises of a philosophy, and turn into zealots with their own dogma. Then you have various factions based off those classifications. The Augie Wing-T isn't the Delware Wing-T, isn't the Charlie Brown Wing-T or the Bob Jones FaceMelting Wing-T. I agree with Bro... You have to believe in something... and no matter what it is you believe in... if you know it better than your opponent knows his... you'll be pretty successful. That's it... that's all. Hence... the Wing T'ers like to talk to other Wing T'ers... Double Winger's with Dub Wingers... Air Raiders with... well you get the picture... But the Spread is the fastest growing religion in the game.  |
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Post by brophy on Jul 4, 2007 21:47:56 GMT -6
I guess my "point" was - know what you run, be comfortable with it, but (personally) don't exclude other ways of skinning the cat, take the blinders off to embrace things that work for other folks.
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 2:01:51 GMT -6
The stigma that Wing T teams can't pass exists because it's true (At least here in Ohio it does). It's so much easier to stop the run in HS football then it is to stop the Pass and the Run. There are not a lot of good HS corners, but there are plenty of good LB's, at least around here.
I'm not saying I'm right, but I can't think of any bigger programs around here that can get by at the highest level running the Wing T.
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 2:04:43 GMT -6
DCOHIO - If I'm not mistaken Colerain was an Option team right? Also that team could have ran anything with the talent they have. I'm talking about teams like Mayfield (D1) in Ohio who run the Wing T. They go 1 and done in the playoffs because they meet teams like St Eds who are bigger and faster, all of a sudden those Wing T teams lose the battle on 1st down and it's 2nd and long... Then what? Waggle? 3 step Hitch? Jet Sweep when you can't get the edge?
I think the Wing T is a good offense at the 8th and 9th grade level, at the varsity level NO.
Now Divisions 5 and 6 in Ohio you could get by(4 if you don't meet Big Red or Mooney).
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Post by wingtol on Jul 5, 2007 5:21:39 GMT -6
I think the whole clut joke stems out of the years when wing-t was kind of the backroom offense. Not many people were running it, everyone did basically the same thing, didn't really go outside of the offense much. You know they were the guys at the clinics who would go sit in a room with all the other wing-t guys while there were 100 other speakers on. So I think thats where the whole cult joke came from on the inside, and also the true wing-t die hard are kind of hard headed and don't branch out much from the order of football that is the wing-t. I have coached in an pro I type system and the wing-t and both have their pluses and minus.
Not sure there brian what division they are or were but didn't chardon use to do pretty well with the wing-t in ohio? They came over and kicked the crap out of us one year and I think they ended up in the title game a few years in a row. I think its all how you run the O. If you dont have a solid pass game to go with the run game of course your gonna get stoped, alot of wing-t teams have decent pass games maybe its just the way some people run it.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 5, 2007 5:25:55 GMT -6
I have joined the cult and signed over my personal property and life savings to our leader:  I'm drawing the line at self-castration, though. |
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Post by brophy on Jul 5, 2007 7:41:01 GMT -6
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Post by airraider on Jul 5, 2007 7:54:49 GMT -6
I was a wing-t guy for about 4 years. I still think with the right kind of kids, it is dangerous. Now, Im not talking about the right kind as in the best athletes. But if you have some hard nosed kids with some wings that will block and some oversized FB's at guards.. you can be successful verses better talent.
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Post by knighter on Jul 5, 2007 8:05:49 GMT -6
hey i can admit my cult behavior. as a double winger it is not that i do not care about other offenses at all, it is just that most of what you all run does not fit into what we do. i love to learn about other offenses, just do not care to run them is all. when i have a dw question, i go to the dw guru (hugh wyatt)
and well executed dw with inferior talent can give anyone a run for their money regardless of level of football
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Post by davecisar on Jul 5, 2007 9:16:45 GMT -6
Bellevue Washington Seems to do just fine with the Wing T, even against National Competition and speed like De LaSalle. Bellevue has been USA Today National champs I believe and the game I saw ( just one) they didnt look super loaded. Incredible execution of the Wing T though.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 5, 2007 9:35:11 GMT -6
This guy is our head frosh-soph coach... |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 5, 2007 9:59:21 GMT -6
Man, if you guys think the Wing Ters are cultist; coach under splitback veer dudes!!!
These guys are sold on what they do and there's really not much variation; midline, ISV, OSV and then the complimentary package.
I will openly admit that I was once willing to sell my soul to the SBV Gods; may not be a bad trade with this offense; gotta love the three headed SBV monster.
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Post by tog on Jul 5, 2007 11:21:09 GMT -6
here in texas the most cultish offense is the slot-t
they are looked upon as a weird offshoot sect of the wing-t
stuff works though, and it is spreading like crazy
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 11:37:00 GMT -6
Chardon has success running the Wing T but they are Division 2 which you could argue is one of the weakest divisions in Ohio. Also Chardon's Regular season schedule is anything but spectacular. If Chardon tried running the Wing T against teams like CMK, Massillon, Ignatius, Eds, Glenville, Solon I think we all know what would happen. SHUTOUT Also here is Chardon's regular season schedule, notice their Non Conference Slate... Definitely not World Beaters. www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/teams.jsp?year=2006&teamID=360 |
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Post by tog on Jul 5, 2007 11:46:57 GMT -6
Chardon has success running the Wing T but they are Division 2 which you could argue is one of the weakest divisions in Ohio. Also Chardon's Regular season schedule is anything but spectacular. If Chardon tried running the Wing T against teams like CMK, Massillon, Ignatius, Eds, Glenville, Solon I think we all know what would happen. SHUTOUT Also here is Chardon's regular season schedule, notice their Non Conference Slate... Definitely not World Beaters. www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/teams.jsp?year=2006&teamID=360is this indicative of talent or the system? |
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Post by wingt74 on Jul 5, 2007 12:06:55 GMT -6
IMO, you shouldn't have an "offense" that you commit 100% to all the time. You base your scheme on the personel you have.
I love the Wing-T. But this upcoming season I am going to have a monster (but slow) O-line, a bulldog FB, and a handfull of HBs that are realtively the same.
Going to run some Power-I...
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 12:21:31 GMT -6
Tog I would say it's the system. Chardon will be Division 2 for a while, and for the talent they play against the Wing T will allow them to have success.
I was just talking about the highest level of football in Ohio Division 1, there are no powerhouse teams that run the Wing T. Defenses are too good, many teams are running more balanced attacks and spread offenses to try to put pressure on the defense.
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Post by tog on Jul 5, 2007 12:23:15 GMT -6
wing-t doesn't have to be unbalanced run/pass
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Post by tothehouse on Jul 5, 2007 12:25:22 GMT -6
Brian - Didn't California wing-t running Clovis West beat Massillon 10 years ago or so?
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 12:44:17 GMT -6
I have no idea, but I really don't care about Cali football here in Ohio... We don't really schedule many Cali schools.
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Post by tog on Jul 5, 2007 12:50:10 GMT -6
it ins't so much about the cali-ohio thing
all schemes have pro's and con's
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Post by poweriguy on Jul 5, 2007 13:27:21 GMT -6
It's because they all they all use those Michigan stripes on their helmets, no matter how dorky they look. I mean it only looks right when its blue and maze.
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Post by briangilbert on Jul 5, 2007 13:37:03 GMT -6
I just think the Wing T is easier to defend then a more balanced attack. But all of this stuff seems to go in phases. Today it's all about the spread out here, maybe in 10 years it will be Wing T, Delaware Wing T, and the Full House...Who knows
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