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Post by groundchuck on Jan 13, 2013 20:07:23 GMT -6
Guys what are some suggestions for taking the next step, especially in improving team on field discipline. We went 9-2, not by accident, we did pretty well in a lot of areas including being self disciplined. But I feel there is room for improvement. So what are some ways you go from being a B+ to and A when the margin for improvement is not as great? It was easy to see the things we needed to do five years ago. But now in some areas it's nitpicking stuff but that's the difference in us playing one more week, versus going home.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 13, 2013 20:17:28 GMT -6
Step 1: Install the facemelter.
I don't really know coach. What is keeping you from reaching that higher level? Is it weight room commitment? Scheme? You talked about onfield discipline. How does the coaching staff hold players accountable for their actions?
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Jan 13, 2013 20:21:48 GMT -6
Find the details that need to be improved on, make a list and rank the list in order of value to your staff. select the top three - five and make that the focus along with continued growth in the areas that you have improved upon already. Easy to say, doing is the difference. I believe, I am a long way from here.
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Post by dubber on Jan 13, 2013 21:24:40 GMT -6
Guys what are some suggestions for taking the next step, especially in improving team on field discipline. We went 9-2, not by accident, we did pretty well in a lot of areas including being self disciplined. But I feel there is room for improvement. So what are some ways you go from being a B+ to and A when the margin for improvement is not as great? It was easy to see the things we needed to do five years ago. But now in some areas it's nitpicking stuff but that's the difference in us playing one more week, versus going home. This, to me, is the toughest question. Getting a team "good" is something many know how to do (though few possess the perseverance). Getting a team GREAT, that is something almost no one can pin down. I think in high school, there exists "program ceilings".......you can only get a program to a certain level. I do NOT believe a program can "max out" at 5-5, but 8-9 win seasons and a couple playoff wins is the most some will ever achieve (barring that genetic lottery group of kids). Now, you need to realistically (not in coach rhetoric) ask yourself if your program is maxed. If that answer is no, then I think there are a couple of things you need to do to climb over those last dozen or so spots to become a state champion. 1.) Get the ego out of the way. Notice there are two sides to ego.......the first side wants to pound the chest, the second side wants to be liked. You can care about either. Not to cause a stir, but Nick Saban and Bill Belicheck are on to something when it comes to this........sure both those guys have a big ego, but it first and foremost for the organizations they've built, not the big "I". By doing this, you approach the game completely pragmatically.......instead of finding solutions that fit traditional football philosophy, find solutions based solely on "will this help us win". Now, be obsessive about the details. Have hour long staff meetings on your snap count. Stuff like that.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 13, 2013 22:19:46 GMT -6
If you hauled me in for an hour to discuss our snap count I'd probably slap you.
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Post by powerfootball71 on Jan 14, 2013 0:03:51 GMT -6
First off have never been there. Was ether a program way below trying to get good or a good program trying to maintain but never got to the big prize.
Sat in a lot of staff meetings of a buddys staff that's been in the semi or better I think 5 of the last 6 years. They always talked about finding away to beat the team in there league that they had to beat year in year out. They planed there whole offence,defence,special teams and conditioning program for that team. After they started beating them on a regular basis they tweaked things to beat the big teams on are half the state. I'm shure there was more to it but that's one of the big things I got from them.
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Post by davishfc on Jan 14, 2013 7:27:29 GMT -6
Step 1: Install the facemelter. The only step necessary...LOL! ;D
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Post by davishfc on Jan 14, 2013 7:28:22 GMT -6
If you hauled me in for an hour to discuss our snap count I'd probably slap you. I don't know if I'd go that far but that does seem excessive.
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Post by coachbuck on Jan 14, 2013 7:36:05 GMT -6
Groundchuck, I just read Saban "how to be great" based on yours and many others advice from this board. I would look at what he says to do. Dont focus on the big picture per say. Find the little things and get better each day. Work harder each day. The goal isnt 10-1, better than last years record, the goal is to play better football than last year. Incorportate your seniors more into the discipline of the team. I like the quote he uses, Ill mess is up but it basically says "what you do to yourself, you do to the team" I love that quote. I read you lost in state? Sounds like your on the right track already. Use that roadmap and believe in it. One last thing coach. In H.S. I have seen coaches make it very far based on the d1 talent they have that one year and then after that they receed back to being a poor football team. Im assuming that is not your team and you already have a good program going.
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Post by coachshepherd on Jan 14, 2013 7:46:48 GMT -6
I think 2 areas to focus on, and one comes from Chip Kelly's motto "Win the Day." In our offseason program, whether it is our lifting charts in our program, or the conditioning phase, we are adding a segment, What did you do to "win the day." Any form of one extra conditioning, competition, lift, etc. That the student athlete can do at the end of his workout to win the day. Basically trying to have them take ownership and do that little extra to help put you over the top. Say for a WR you catch a 100 tennis balls from a jug machine.
Also, I don't think trench play can be overstated for anyone. What can you do to improve your OL/DL. I'm always looking for ways to simplify scheme and improve technique and whenever you can improve those areas for your buffet busters it's a win.
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Post by calkayne on Jan 14, 2013 8:27:33 GMT -6
Look at the process using this metaphor:
Your on your 1 yard line, you move the ball half-way to the endzone with each play.
How many plays does it take to reach the endzone?
Draw the answer up if it helps you. You will see that in the beginning you literally fly over the gridiron, then you get to a point where your advances become small, then they become tiny, then almost indefinable.
The point being, if your at the nitpicking stage, then you have flown over the gridiron and are at a stage now where you need to adress the details in your program. The To-Do list you will need to adress is specific to your program and your program alone.
Something to look at is what problems arose from the changes you made in the past. Can these be adressed, are they impeding your development as a team?
Survey the players and staff, there are a few free websites around where you can create anonymous surveys for them. The anonymous data you will get from them should help steer you in the right direction.
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Post by calkayne on Jan 14, 2013 8:28:37 GMT -6
Also, if your looking to improve your program, try not to look at the solution to your problems until you have evaluated what the problems are.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 14, 2013 10:08:57 GMT -6
A slogan that I always remember from a company I used to do some business with that stuck with me was "If you can measure it, you can improve it".
Look at the top 10 things, could be more or less-up to you, that YOU think your program/team is good at. Go back and measure the success you had. An example would be last year you were 68% on 4th down conversions. How do you get to 75%. You gave up 8 explosive pass plays over 10 games, how do we identify what happened and get that down to 4 and so on.
Once you identify by data, not gut, what can be improved you can then go about the "focus like a laser" approach to improving those items.
The analogy of moving down the field is a terrific analogy. Sometimes the difference between good and great is minuscule. But it is truly the details that make the difference in almost everything we do that facilitate that leap.
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2013 10:22:54 GMT -6
Look at the process using this metaphor: Your on your 1 yard line, you move the ball half-way to the endzone with each play. How many plays does it take to reach the endzone? That's not very encouraging because you'll never actually get into the endzone.
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Post by fantom on Jan 14, 2013 10:46:17 GMT -6
Guys what are some suggestions for taking the next step, especially in improving team on field discipline. We went 9-2, not by accident, we did pretty well in a lot of areas including being self disciplined. But I feel there is room for improvement. So what are some ways you go from being a B+ to and A when the margin for improvement is not as great? It was easy to see the things we needed to do five years ago. But now in some areas it's nitpicking stuff but that's the difference in us playing one more week, versus going home. It's hard to answer until the question is more specific but a couple of thoughts: 1. Are your offensive, defensive, and ST systems flexible enough? One thing that I see here a lot (not necessarily from you) is, "We're in a run-heavy league" or "Most of our opponents are spread". How about the playoffs, when you'll see unfamiliar systems? Can you adjust easily without having to completely redesign things? 2. (Possibly related to #1) Does your staff coach differently in big games? On the other hand, are you so committed to "Do what we do" that you don't make small changes that could help you? Do you need to put your kids in unfamiliar situations? Are you tight and conveying that to the players? Do you do uncharacteristic things (get too conservative or take chances that you normally wouldn't)? 3. That hour-long meeting about snap count? Why not? Sure, you're not going to have an written agenda on the board, "Snap Count: 3:00-4:00" but I'll bet most of us have spent more than an hour talking about it. Everything should be on the table for discussion every year. If there's a better way to do it, why not look into it?
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Post by davishfc on Jan 14, 2013 11:26:10 GMT -6
Groundchuck, I just read Saban "how to be great" based on yours and many others advice from this board. I would look at what he says to do. Dont focus on the big picture per say. Find the little things and get better each day. He also says "don't worry about about a few mouse turds when your waist deep in elephant dung." But that's for a different thread. Certainly not this one about trying to address the little things.
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Post by calkayne on Jan 14, 2013 12:09:38 GMT -6
That's not very encouraging because you'll never actually get into the endzone. Great point fantom, though tainted by a solution based perspective, the goal is to identify what can be improved upon. The Endzone represents perfection not an end goal. Perfection is impossible, excellence, however, is attainable. I think any coaches primary purpose is to achieve excellence within his system. It sounds to me like groundchuck is finding himself inside the 20
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Post by captainpp on Jan 14, 2013 13:02:41 GMT -6
Chuck, First good question, and very similar for us and most likely many other. I noticed on your school site, at the varsity picture that you have 5 coaches on your staff. We have 7. The Back to Back State Champs and Team that is always in the mix, ( who we share the same sand-box with) Conference, seek to try to place 9 coaches just in the press box during games. There are many other coaches on the sideline. I am a believer in, more is better. If a coach is able to instruct his expanded staff, I see it as a win. Another way of looking at it since most of you are teachers is this. When classroom sizes were smaller wasn't it a win - win for both the student and the teachers As in my case, I was retiring soon. I answered a ad in the paper for a 7th and 8th grade coaching gig. Prior because of a housing move I wasn't involved in coaching for several years. Mind you, I have been coaching or had some kind of involvement, there of, since I was 17. I'm 58 1/2 now. H/C asked if I could be at Varsity Camp to get accustom for the purpose of a feeder program that was in place. After 3 days of working with the running back, he approached me asking if I wouldn't mind staying up at the Varsity. Are there more old timers out there I say, you can bet your buns there are and just waiting for a Howdy -Do from you. As to pay, hell we're retired. We made as much money as we are ever going to make. My H/C started to discuss money with me and I politely picked up another slice of pizza while at the pizza place, stuck out my other hand for a handshake and said paid in full. He still gives me some coins that fall off the edge of the table to help cover the fuel cost but never did I ask for anything. Most of that finds it's way back into the program one way or another. In closing --- If this sparks any interest, maybe suggest to your paid coaches, for each of them to go out and get their own assistant that they can work with. Just follow a chain of command style that is headed by you. Older gents or younger just so long they follow instruction's and not free-lance. 2) You may find a nut like myself that will be at practice everyday 1 hour earlier than the teachers to prep the field and to get the S/Teams ready and in motion. 3) Maybe that same nut or a different one will be up all night and day, breaking down film because again " HE's RETIRED " and able to get to the fine details that sometimes get missed by others -- BECAUSE -- " THEY'RE NOT RETIRED " and are involved with Fundraisers, Parent-Teacher Conf, Grading Papers, In Staff Meetings, DA DA DA etc. Chuck, thanks for all that you do with your kids and here at Huey's . This is just my viewpoint . For those ready to give their negative feedback don't bother " I'm Retired and Don't Care"
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Post by joelee on Jan 14, 2013 13:14:23 GMT -6
Ask, why not us? Why can't we win it? Drop the excuses. If you can get your players and staff to honestly ask "why not us" and really believe they can win it, you can take another step.
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Post by coachbw on Jan 14, 2013 14:40:51 GMT -6
Coach, Early on in my coaching career, I was a part of a program that reminds me a lot of where you guys are. Similar enrollment, similar conference, similar steps forward, etc. What really put us over the edge was getting the kids to take ownership in the program. We had a group that qualified for playoffs and was 6-4. This group did most of the things that I have seen in other good programs. 2 Years later, we had a group that had gone 29-0 with back to back state championships. The difference was giving them control of the team. They called their own plays, the captains made the decisions on what conditioning would be, they had conversations about who was being selfish/not looking out for the good of the team and how to handle it, etc. It is an interesting story of how this all developed that had to do with the players of the 6-3 team saying they really only trusted 4 plays we ran down 21-0 at half of a playoff game, so those plays were run in a repeating pattern for a 28 point comeback. Within a couple of months we had sat down with them and completely sold out to the idea that they knew the program better than we thought. We let them make decisions about if we should purchased uniforms that followed our schools tradition or something flashier that stood out, where to hold the banquet, etc. It isn't a style that works for everyone, but for us it really put us over the top.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Jan 15, 2013 10:47:20 GMT -6
What about identifying your base skills and comparing notes with colleges who run similar schemes to improve drill work and organization?
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 17, 2013 11:20:55 GMT -6
What about identifying your base skills and comparing notes with colleges who run similar schemes to improve drill work and organization? Great suggestion. We do that. This has been a great thread (in my opinion anyway). If you have ideas keep posting them. Several ideas posted above have already been talked about by my staff since this thread started.
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Post by Coach_O on Jan 17, 2013 13:05:30 GMT -6
Our program revolves around 3 major factors: - 6 pillars that hold up our tradition (Effort, Attitude, Committment, Discipline, Toughness, Pride). - Hiring and developing a quality coaching staff
- Strength and conditioning program
If you have a fundamentally sound scheme, that plays to the strength of players, it doesn't matter what you run.
IMO it sounds like you have alot of the right pieces to take the next step. It sounds like you may need to focus on character development and strength training. In fact, most of our character development occurs during strength training. We try to make it as upbeat and demanding as possible.
Here is on thing that we do: At the end of every session we issue a "CHALLENGE." The team has 60 seconds to pick 3 players to take part in a 3 minute challenge. If the 3 players succeed, the rest of the team does not have to do the challenge. A player can only be voluteer/picked to do a challenge 1 time per phase (approximately 8 weeks) or until everyone has participated. It is an amazing experience. We have 3 year starters on the OL cheering on the 5th string JV CB. Most of the time its guys that they have never really spoken to before. On the flip side, players are killing themselves for the team, the pressure is on and everyone is counting on them. When it is over, we swarm the 3 guys and get break around them.
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Post by coachbw on Jan 17, 2013 14:51:15 GMT -6
One more thing I forgot about. We constantly were preaching to our kids that we "were doing things no one else did." Even if we knew other programs did some of them, we talked up how unique they were "Everybody runs sprints, we run springs holding cinder blocks." "Everybody does tackling drills, we do tackling drills to start every practice." We were constantly pointing out what we did differently than other programs. "Our week one opponent has a starter out for a drinking violation. Our program hasn't had a drinking violation since you seniors were in 6th grade."
I wrote my masters thesis on team building, and one of the things that I found is there is a benefit to having an "us vs. them" mentality. People will buy in if they feel like there is something unique going on. All programs have things that they do very well. Find those, and make sure that the kids know about it and take pride in it.
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Post by gators1422 on Jan 21, 2013 14:35:30 GMT -6
We focus on 3 things THD, Toughness, we want to be more physical than anyone we play, we surely aren't the biggest but most of the time the most physical. Hard Work, we bust the kids asses in the weight room, running, whatever we do its a competition met with cosequences or rewards, you sandbag on lifting your name goes on the board as a sandbagger for everybody to see. Discipline, we stress to our guys discipline and try to always be disciplined. Fortunately we are alot better than the teams in our district and our kids know it, we preach to them we aren't practicing to beat team X this week we are trying to get better to beat team Y in the semi finals. The always having competition seems to really work well.
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Post by keysersoze on Jan 21, 2013 21:29:09 GMT -6
What I like to do if find a program that has taken the next step and study what they do. Most HS coaches are really open to sharing, especially in how they organize their program, etc. I have met with several coaches out of state and it is incredible what they will share with you, and how much is applicable to what we're doing. It's also great to see what a top program in California is doing when they don't have the same restrictions that say New Jersey does. Retired coaches are especially helpful in that they don't worry about someone stealing their stuff and some miss coaching and like the opportunity to share.
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Post by jrfalcon on Jan 24, 2013 20:42:39 GMT -6
My question would be: Do you have a team or a program? By my definition a team is a high schol football team that primarily focuses on the young men playing varsity. A program is every person who will someday put on your uniform. For example, I think we have a program. Our program starts in 4th grade with tackle football and continues through their senior year. Each level essentially runs the same offense and defense. But each level coach is also given autonomy to mix it up a little too. Even this small bit of autonomy is a win-win on each level. You maximize the number of coaches in the program. You do not necessarily have to have a formal meeting to collaborate. You can just watch another level practice and play and see small tweaks and changes and contiue to build upon these over and over again. When our HS varsity team won the semifinal game this year the other head coach told our HC that the difference in the game was that one group was a program and the other was still trying to become a program. It can sometimes be a difficult thing for a varsity HC to watch a 4th grade(or any younger team) and be willing to accept that what the younger coach did on offense, defense, or ST is better than what he was already doing. I think that ultimately programs win not teams.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 25, 2013 7:43:37 GMT -6
My question would be: Do you have a team or a program? By my definition a team is a high schol football team that primarily focuses on the young men playing varsity. A program is every person who will someday put on your uniform. For example, I think we have a program. Our program starts in 4th grade with tackle football and continues through their senior year. Each level essentially runs the same offense and defense. But each level coach is also given autonomy to mix it up a little too. Even this small bit of autonomy is a win-win on each level. You maximize the number of coaches in the program. You do not necessarily have to have a formal meeting to collaborate. You can just watch another level practice and play and see small tweaks and changes and contiue to build upon these over and over again. When our HS varsity team won the semifinal game this year the other head coach told our HC that the difference in the game was that one group was a program and the other was still trying to become a program. It can sometimes be a difficult thing for a varsity HC to watch a 4th grade(or any younger team) and be willing to accept that what the younger coach did on offense, defense, or ST is better than what he was already doing. I think that ultimately programs win not teams. While I jumped on board mid-sail at my current stop, our HC says that this is the key to our run. When we started focusing on the Jimmys and Joes and less on the Xs and Os is when the program got over the hump. Not to get all preachy, but the focus is on the man he will become not the player he will be.
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