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Post by flexspread on May 4, 2007 10:59:54 GMT -6
I am the HC at a small school (approx. 46 kids per grade) and I've got a problem. I have a 6'1.5" 8th grader who is a stud athlete(pretty solid body but not real thick), can throw a baseball 80+MPH and he is only 13, coming up to play football at the high school next year as a freshman. The kid is smart and pocesses great leadership qualities the only knock on him is that he has been somewhat injury prone the past few years with minor injuries. My other option is to use a Senior QB who started for me last year. The Senior is the best pure athlete on the team but doesn't throw the ball very accurately, isn't a vocal leader and is somewhat of a space cadet. Any opinions are welcome. Thanks.
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Post by fbdoc on May 4, 2007 11:37:56 GMT -6
We're at a slightly smaller school (30-32 typically on Varsity). We have never had an 8th grader who was the Best kid at his position, however we have had 9th graders who started for us. If the kid is clearly BETTER than the other guy, and he can help you win, then you have to start him.
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Post by flexspread on May 4, 2007 11:49:47 GMT -6
Just to clarify, this kid is currently in 8th grade but will be a Freshman this coming fall.
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Post by superpower on May 4, 2007 11:56:00 GMT -6
Joe Paterno once said something like, "I'd rather play a sophomore a year too late than a freshman a week too soon." However, he wasn't coaching at a small high school. I have been forced to start freshmen just to field a team, but I would avoid it if possible.
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Post by phantom on May 4, 2007 12:12:30 GMT -6
Play the best player regardless of grade. I would not start practice with the freshman starting, though. I think he has to earn it.
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Post by tvt50 on May 4, 2007 12:34:16 GMT -6
YES!!!! Put the young kid at QB and the senior at Tailback and go to work.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on May 4, 2007 12:38:11 GMT -6
If you guys are at a small school... then I am at a tiny one. We have never had a freshman start for us the whole year (we have had freshmen start due to injuries, etc.... we did last year).
However, when I was at a 5A school, we had 2 freshman start for us (one went on to play at Okla. St., the other went to Texas- they were good and both 6'2+ 230+).
Personally I am against starting freshmen... I hate to do it. I also hate to throw the ball, but if we need to do that to win, I'll do it.
I usually have to play a few freshmen (we are 13-20 per grade here)... we just try to limit their responsibilities and keep things "learnable". Obviously if they can play at that age, they are good athletes, but the mental aspect is the toughest transition (more plays, adjustments, intensity of practice, etc.)
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Post by CVBears on May 4, 2007 13:51:22 GMT -6
I would play the kid if he is legitimately the starter. If he isn't, I believe he would be better served playing at a lower level (assuming there is good coaching) than sitting at a higher one.
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Post by fbcoach33 on May 4, 2007 17:09:04 GMT -6
If you play any JV games or lower level type games you might want to have him start in those first, if he dominates then move him up. Always a touchy situation with upperclassmen etc, I would make him earn it a bit at practice and on game night, also it helps to give him some confidence in the lower level games as well. I think you also have to really look at what type of kid he is on the mental side of things, can he handle the pressure, can he handle upperclassmen maybe not liking the youngin having a starting spot without paying his dues if you will.
just my opinion.
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Post by coachdawhip on May 4, 2007 17:14:49 GMT -6
If he is good in practice start him, we have 2 rising ninth grades penciled in right now. I can't believe they are rising 9th grades. Hell, we have a rising 8th grader who made start as a freshman 6'2, 185, 10.78(FAT) and throws better than everyone but our senior QB
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Post by coachcb on May 4, 2007 17:18:02 GMT -6
If he's one of your best 11, then find a way to get him in there.
As someone else already said, I wouldn't start him right off the bat, make him show you and the team somethin
The SR might be much more successful at another position, especially if he doesn't have a strong arm.
Starting freshman is always a tough choice, but if he's going to help you win games, then just do it.
As far as the "minor injuries" go; are we talking a booboo or an actual injury? If he gets worked up over little bumps and bruises, you may have a problem on your hand.
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Post by jjkuenzel on May 4, 2007 18:33:46 GMT -6
Make him earn a starting spot and then some. IMO, he has to clearly be much better than the other kid at his position.
More importantly, make sure that he has earned the respect of his teammates, most notably the seniors. If the seniors respect him as a player and a leader, then most everyone else should fall in line.
If you are going to start the season with a freshman at QB, then it must be under one of 2 circumstances. Either you are completely desperate and there are virtually no other options. Or, he is an absolute stud who will be a Jimmy Clausen type DI prospect.
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Post by spartancoach on May 4, 2007 19:29:56 GMT -6
Let the freshman compete and see if he earns the job. We had this situation last year. By the second scrimmage the freshman took the number 2 spot. 3 weeks into the season it became apparent that the upperclassman just wasn't a leader. We started the freshman QB the last 6 games of the season and by the last 2 games he played very well. This year, as an upcoming sophomore, he is already leading, and more importantly, the others are following.
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Post by kboyd on May 4, 2007 22:17:14 GMT -6
I'm a big believer in whoever works the hardest and does the best job gets the position. We let our kids know that right off the start so there's no confusion.
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Post by ajreaper on May 4, 2007 22:55:37 GMT -6
I presume he's not even practiced as of yet- so why is there any talk of starting him? He throws a baseball fast how does that equate to being able to replace the senior returning starter? I also presume you play in a league with similar size schools- many of whom likely are in a similar position of needing to play younger players so he'll not likely be physically overwhelmed- I coach in a school of about 1700, starting a freshman is unheard of and starting a sophmore is pretty rare. I'd say you need to actually get this kid on the field practicing to see if you even have this decision to make.
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Post by flexspread on May 5, 2007 10:57:31 GMT -6
Thanks for the posts. A few answers to some of your questions:
As far as the minor injuries they range from a broken arm last summer to a sprained ankle in game 2 to a concussion in game 5. He isn't a complainer but I don't know about his toughness.
As far as seeing how he does in JV games the only concern I have is the lack of line that would be protecting him. JV typically equates to having to run the ball a lot more than we would in varsity due to this. Typically our JV QB is someone who works hard, is smart but just doesn't have the physical attributes of a varsity player and is our 3rd string QB. Our 2nd string QB is usually a WR who knows both positions and can get the job done in either situation. If the freshmen wins it and the Senior is moved to QB or RB then he would become the number 2 and be prepared incase he was needed.
As far as seeing him play, I have seen him play. I ran their football camp last summer and got to see what this kid can do. He was consistantly the best athlete on the field. The only reason I used the baseball info was to demonstrate the potential power he has in his arm.
I agree that the freshmen needs to earn it and prove he can handle the pressure and that he is better suited than the senior to take the position this year. I am hoping that through camp and 7 on 7 tournaments we will have a better idea of where we are before two-a-days begins.
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Post by touchdowng on May 5, 2007 14:00:20 GMT -6
If the 9th grader is the best QB candidate and the 12th grader will contribute in other ways, what the heck?
Give it a go and make sure to give the senior his share of QB reps in case the 9th grader isn't quite ready. Just don't throw him to the lions without a backup plan for your team and for his continued development.
A team in our league started a 9th grader because the senior starter got hurt (average enrollment in our league is 1500 9th-12th). The 9th grader got better every week on a below average team. When the senior returned, the 9th grader was shown the bench and went back to JV, but he proved over 4 games that he did belong out there and should be a good qb in the coming years. He is 5'10 155 lbs, accurate arm (not particularly strong) but good feet.
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Post by briangilbert on May 6, 2007 12:35:43 GMT -6
If the 9th grader is even with the 12th grader then It's a no brainer to play the 9th grader IMO.
You have to think about what's better for the program not the SR.
If you're going to do this though dive 100% into it! Don't groom him as your #2 during 2adays and the summer. The sooner you get him into your system the better your team will be. You also don't want a controversy during the season as to who your starter is going to be, and you don't want to change mid season. I would give the 9th grader the job now and develop him to the best of my ability.
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Post by khalfie on May 6, 2007 13:36:43 GMT -6
I'm with the Joe Paterno sentiment...
If its life and death, and you need the 8th grader to survive... leave him with the freshmen, grow their confidence and prepare for the future...
If its not life and death, and the kid would be a nice addition... leave him with the freshmen, grow their confidence, and rest assured the future is bright...
Varisty action is such a jump from youth ball... especially at the QB position... it takes a very special kid, surrounding cast and circumstances to make that right...
Unless forced by injuries... I would keep my freshmen with the freshmen.
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Post by touchdowng on May 6, 2007 13:54:33 GMT -6
In our program it is the responsibility of upper classmen to make sure that the younger guys don't close the gap. If everything is equal, I would go with the younger guy.
If you want to be one of those guys who is loyal to his older guys that work hard (and I am to an extent) , you will find a place for those kids to fit into your program. Your 12th grader sounds like he is capable to play other roles well.
Had a great, young sophomore RB who passed up a senior RB who was an average overachiever. About a month into the season I overheard that senior tell his friends that he has no problem backing up the kid, "he's just better!" The kid was all league and the senior, found his spots being our #2 TB, on special teams and we had him pack the rock on short yardage situations.
When players know that the situation is all about competition - and not personal (and it should be at the Vars level), there shouldn't be too many ongoing hard feelings when younger guys pass up others.
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Post by larrymoe on May 6, 2007 22:23:52 GMT -6
If he's the best, yes start him. A program I worked with in the past had a freshmen QB move in during the end of his 8th grade year. He was tall, athletic and better than the starting QB as an 8th grader. They started him as a freshmen the next fall. There was some hard feelings from the starting QB, but even he realized pretty soon the kid was something special. Kid later earned a scholarship to Wyoming to play QB.
Before this experience and talking to the coaches over there I would've said no, don't play him. But if he's truly better and can handle it, by all means play him.
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Post by flycoach on May 7, 2007 1:20:42 GMT -6
Write down your best 11 that you can get on the field. If he is on your list play him. I am sorry everyone but "I don't like to start Freshman" just doesn't work if you are trying to win.
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Post by airraider on May 7, 2007 6:11:43 GMT -6
We played in the second highest class in Louisiana and went 13-1 with a freshmen starting a multiple positions the last 6 games.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 7, 2007 7:01:29 GMT -6
I'm with phantom on this one...
Make him earn it and hope he does...otherwise kids will see right through the BS for what it really is. Yes we all want to win, but you also don't want your other 50 kids to lose faith and trust in you.
Handing a kid a position is a cardinal sin in my book. I've done it and it always comes back to bite you on the a$$.
I don't care if you only have 40 kids/grade. Everyone else in your league has the same #'s, right? Don't sell your soul for a few wins- do it the right way and make every kid earn it.
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Post by gunandrun on May 7, 2007 8:30:44 GMT -6
Yes--- Whitemike Make the kid earn it. The firast thing I tell all the kids "I see you as a starter next year" The second thing "I tell them "You will here me say that to the whole team" The question is which of your kids will prepare like they want to start. If all of teh players prepare like they are or want to be a starter your team will have a great season.
Do not sell your soul on one kid- The kids will see right through you. In addition, he could be done for the season on the very first or play. Always have a back-up plan.
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Post by flycoach on May 7, 2007 12:51:24 GMT -6
My post earlier said that I would play the kid if he is one of the best 11 you can put on the field, regardless of grade. I don't believe ANYONE should be given ANYTHING. Everyone should earn their spot.
Just wanted to clarify.
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SetHut
Junior Member
Posts: 316
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Post by SetHut on May 11, 2007 19:42:59 GMT -6
flexspread, you've received some sound advice from some obviously knowledgeable coaches. Given what you've said, I would also consider the maturity level of the freshman. Some can handle varsity ball--some can't. . .I've seen both. If you put him in there and he can't handle the responsiblity and pressure it might set him back. Be sure you have adequate pass pro for him so not to destroy his confidence. But if he can handle it, you can put him in there, after he's earned it, and he might lead your team to several wins. After the frosh beats out the sr. continue to give the sr. a few reps in team time. Once, we had a soph. beat out a senior after the second game. We put the sr. at TE and he played well (relieved). The soph. QB got hurt in the 8th game and the sr. came in and finished the game (win) and the next two (wins). Also, I might add, work with the sr. to improve his accuracy. Encourage him to attend QB clinics to correct obvious flaws in his mechanics. Talk to the sr. about being a team player means accepting his role on the team. Maybe he could help you at WR.
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Post by lionhart on May 11, 2007 20:04:36 GMT -6
i will offer you my 2 cents on the issue, coach. #1 the RETURNING starter, a SR, deserves the respect of the starting job to begin camp, period. you said he was the best all-around athlete on you team.... keep him right where he is. #2 let the boys COMPETE... let them both get reps and see what happens. competition brings out the best in kids. if the frosh is THAT much better.. then its an easy choice. its like a title fight in boxing... you have to do something that stands out to unseat an incumbent champ. #3 one thing you DEFINITELY should do is speak to the frosh's parents and see how they feel. i had a frosh who was 6'3 265 lbs and ran a 4.8 40. sounds like a great lineman, right. well his mother didnt want him playing varsity with all the "older boys" until he was ready. after numerous discussions.... i agreed with her that her son would only play frosh games and occasional J.V. she was pleased and her son wound up being a 3-yr starter and getting a d-1 scholarship his senior year. but the point is... talk to the parents because the idea of a 13 or 14 year old boy getting tackled by an 18 or 19 year old young man doesnt sit well with some people.
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