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Post by cqmiller on Apr 20, 2006 7:25:55 GMT -6
I'm just trying to see if it is a Utah thing, or if it happens everywhere. Seems like most Head Coaches here try to run EVERYTHING, and just have position coaches to help "babysit" the kids. Maybe I'm just too used to the way the College Programs I've been around do it.
How much control do all you HC's give to your Coordinators, Assistant HC, and Position Assistants?
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Post by knighter on Apr 20, 2006 7:30:15 GMT -6
I am the Head Coach and OC, I also coached running backs and drop ends (moving to LB's next year) I also coach return men, and I am the kickoff return coach and the punt team coach.
DC coaches DB's, QB's, calls punt returns, and is the "wall" coach for returns
OL/DL coach is in charge of positions, and is the kickoff team coach. He is also the JV OC (Head Coach)
Volunteer assistant is in charge of PAT/FG and is kind of the "Head Special Teams Coach" as this is an area where he knows a ton, and he takes pride in them.
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Post by edwardslv on Apr 20, 2006 7:55:40 GMT -6
I'm a head coach and do it about the same way knighter does it.
I don't want to do everything, nor can I do everything. I play a big role in defensive game-planning even though I'm the OC, but I try to give the primary defensive coaches as much freedom as possible, so long as they work within the system. With that in mind, I do not think I'll ever be one of those head coaches that allows the coordinator(s) to have free reign.
When Bill Curry was at Kentucky he asked legendary Eastern Kentucky University coach Roy Kidd how he had such continuity and thus consistent success. Kidd's reply: He hires good people, BUT he insists they run his system.
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 20, 2006 8:02:09 GMT -6
with trust comes responsibility. some coaches have little trust for the men working for them...others are a bit quicker to trust and delegate.
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Post by edwardslv on Apr 20, 2006 8:06:01 GMT -6
with trust comes responsibility. some coaches have little trust for the men working for them...others are a bit quicker to trust and delegate. My coaching mentor didn't fully trust me w/ the D until I showed him I was responsible. It took me about four years before he fully trusted me w/ the D. I got frustrated at times, but once I earned that trust I knew I had something special. Then once things couldn't get any better I jumped ship to become a head coach. What was I thinking?
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Post by knighter on Apr 20, 2006 8:10:02 GMT -6
My DC has full authority....but he has been a trusted friend for a LONG time. (Since HS) He is still a guy who asks for my input in situations, and I give him what I think, but he can choose to listen, or do what he thinks is best...I trust him enough that I believe sometimes he may know better than I do.
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Post by coachjd on Apr 20, 2006 8:11:39 GMT -6
IMO, you give the assistants the amount of responsibility they have proven they can handle. On our current staff we have 4 assistant coaches who all have been head coaches. Our header has given the 4 coaches who have been head coaches a lot more responsibilty by our past and current performances.
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kakavian
Sophomore Member
Where's the ball, boy? Find the ball.
Posts: 175
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Post by kakavian on Apr 20, 2006 8:15:22 GMT -6
Miller- I know as an HC it takes at least a full season of working with someone and seeing how they do things before I am going to just turn them loose. Even so, I want to know whats going on, WHY they are doing things, etc so that they stay within what I expect of the team. When I bring on new coaches, yeah I run things, but I expect the coaches to listen, and do what I ask for a full season. I figure if they can survive a season of being micromanaged with only blowing their top once...they are doing well.
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zexx14
Sophomore Member
Every failure carries with it the seed for an equivalent or greater success
Posts: 169
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Post by zexx14 on Apr 20, 2006 8:43:45 GMT -6
I really have very little problem giving responsibility to someone who is willing to put in the time and effort. My problem comes from coaches who have a few years experience under their belts(3-5) years and feel they are entitled to more responsibilties. I have had coaches in the past who very rarely showed up in the off-season, missed our team camps, and yet had the nerve to say that they deserved more responsibility. Work hard and put in the time and you will earn the respect of your head coach and also more responsibilities.
Zexx 14
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Post by oldwarrior on Apr 20, 2006 8:48:32 GMT -6
micro managing is not the way to go
if you hire a guy let him do the job if he can't do the job you hired him for, you shouldn't have hired him surround yourself with good people who believe in your philosophy and let them coach
I'm the DC and my HC gives me total control, he helps if I ask for it
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Boltar
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by Boltar on Apr 20, 2006 8:50:59 GMT -6
Experience, willingness to work, coaching ability are all factors in deciding how much responsibility to give an assistant. Above all, is the trust a coach needs to have that the assistant is doing what the HC wants done. Too many times, a hot shot assistant does his own thing and ruins the chemistry of the team.
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Post by superpower on Apr 20, 2006 8:53:54 GMT -6
I agree that micro managing is not good. However, at my new school I will have three assistant coaches, and none of them wants to be either offensive or defensive coordinator. They are all good men. One has been coaching there since 1969, and another since 1986. The third coached freshmen at another school for 2-3 years. They will all coach positions on offense and defense, and one of them is interested in running the special teams, but it looks as if I will be both OC and DC. I don't want to just assign a coordinator duty if no one is willing to commit to it.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 20, 2006 8:56:36 GMT -6
I'm only asking because last year, my friend & I were brought in to "run the offense" for a new coach. This coach had NEVER been on the offensive side of the ball, he was a defensive coach, and a DC before getting the head job. But after he brought us in, and approved our offensive schemes and personel decisions over the summer, we show up for camp, and he is calling the offense, and not listening to my friend or myself when either one of us was in the box, on the sideline, etc...
It was EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING!!! Now this year, he is shuffling all the coaching personel around to coach different positions then we did last year.
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Post by edwardslv on Apr 20, 2006 10:19:10 GMT -6
I'm only asking because last year, my friend & I were brought in to "run the offense" for a new coach. This coach had NEVER been on the offensive side of the ball, he was a defensive coach, and a DC before getting the head job. But after he brought us in, and approved our offensive schemes and personel decisions over the summer, we show up for camp, and he is calling the offense, and not listening to my friend or myself when either one of us was in the box, on the sideline, etc... It was EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING!!! Now this year, he is shuffling all the coaching personel around to coach different positions then we did last year. That's a different situation than what some were describing, as well as what I was envisioning. If I ever tell a guy to come in and run his system then I hope I mean it. In regards to micromanaging, sometimes hiring the right guy for the job is not always possible. I'm at a small school and we have guys on our staff that are still learning to crawl; Some as green as can be. I cannot turn them loose, nor can I fire them to hire somebody more capable, and nor do I want to do that. It is the job of the head coach to bring those guys along, which at times may very well mean what many would label micromanaging.
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Post by knighter on Apr 20, 2006 10:24:00 GMT -6
agree with you edwards, you say micromanaging, i say tutoring or mentoring, but it is all in a good way
i teach my assistants to run it the way i would run it if i am kicked out or dead
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Post by coachblenman50 on Apr 20, 2006 12:15:22 GMT -6
Our staff has an open relationship to where we welcome all input. I coach with a semi-pro football team in N.C. On a regular day, our HC will come around and view our progress with the players. Not to disrupt what is being done, but to make sure the pieces fit the big puzzle. I am an o-line coach and I have free reign over the blocking scheme. Knowing that, I want my scheme to fit with the OC's vision and the HC, etc. He is the HC for a reason, he knows FOOTBALL, not just certain aspects. The result this past season: 9-1 reg. season record, league semi-finalist, national tourney participant, #7 ranking nationally, 8 players currently playing arena football, 1 going to the NFL combine. To all HC, trust your assistants, that's what you have them there for. ;D
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 20, 2006 13:03:22 GMT -6
Heres the thing...a coach has a job, its to coach his assistants so they can coach. I am meeting with my middle school staff for the second time. the first time i met with each of them individually to discuss coaching philosophy and expectations. i gave them coaching contracts and a program vision etc. this time the meeting is to iron out the specifics of the drills and materials i want each of them to have mastered by our first practice. each already knows what he will have ownership over and each knows that they must have drills that apply only to our schemes and beliefs. we will go over several details including tackling progressions, etc...i mean you just dont want to contradict each other on the field. best to iron out everything in the off season. for what its worth, neither is being called "coordinator" but both have jobs on each side of the ball. both are green. as they become masters of their positions and develop nice position manuals and understand more about the game then getting a bigger role is next. I am coaching them so they can coach the kids, not to micromanage stuff....i cant just show up and say "you coach the backs" and let them go off and do whatever they want...they have to be taught WHAT AND HOW I need things done and as they "get it" they "get more". I trust them because i have already explained just how important trust and loyalty are. some new guys have lurked around and asked to be part of what we are doing but i can not give them anything more than a "video tape" role for now. I want to get to know them first. My staff has to be "my guys"...and im part of someone elses staff so i have to be "his guy"...Ill let you know how all this works out.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 20, 2006 13:07:40 GMT -6
I want that they can prove they can handle it before I give them to much. It is better to give a little and then a little more and so on thento give them too much and have to reign it back in. That happened this year with my offensive coordinator. He was more than capable as a play caller just he wanted complete control and that was not what I had in mind.
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 20, 2006 15:13:08 GMT -6
What about coaches who want to be on the staff, but really don't want to put in the time? Kind of like the kid who wants to wear the jersey around the school, but doesn't really do much on the field to help the team in any way.
See EGO post I created early. Some of that applies here.
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 21, 2006 2:14:14 GMT -6
those guys work the camera on friday night....
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Post by realdawg on Apr 21, 2006 4:19:11 GMT -6
I am not a head coach, and have only been coaching for 5 years, and I was a little miffed by the post that said a guy w/ 3-5 yrs experience shouldnt ask for more responsibility until I read on and saw he was talking about lazy guys b/c after 5 years I have become OL coach/ special teams coordinator/ off season workout coordinator, and I believe am next in line for OC if ours leaves (rumors are everywhere that he will) I have busted my butt for my HC for 5 yrs, and he does not believe in micromanaging, we have an OC and a DC who make all the decisions, and he sits in their meetings and offers suggestions but never demands. As the OL coach he will come over and watch our drills and practice, and maybe offer a few pointers, usually he just nods his head and says keep workin'em. He is a great guy to work for and I love him like a father for the trust and faith he has put into me, and that makes me want to work even harder for him.
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 21, 2006 4:51:49 GMT -6
Thanks guys. Good to see that there are a lot of HC's out there who allow their Assistants to do their jobs, and just oversee everything. I'll just have to bite my tongue for a while, work hard, and try to get my own HC job.
Thanks again
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Post by realdawg on Apr 21, 2006 8:23:16 GMT -6
Coachcalande, I missed it the first time I read it, but you talk about giving ownership, thats a word our HC uses alot, he wants all his assistants to feel like they are a part of our team and our success (and I guess failures at times too!LOL) but he gives each assistant something to be in charge of. Now of course less experienced guys get less to be in charge of, but if you work hard for him he will reward you and that makes you want to stay and work even harder for him.
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Post by lochness on Apr 21, 2006 9:47:52 GMT -6
Our staff is quite the opposite.
The HC is also the Special Teams Coordinator. He coaches the TE's on offense, ILB's on defense, and kicking specialists (punter, place kicker, etc.)
I am the OC. I coach RB's, split the QB responsibilities with a position coach, and DB's on defense. I coach returners and "protectors" on special teams.
The DC is our Offensive and Defensive Line coach. He coaches the lines on special teams as well.
We then have position coach #1 who is the JV head coach. He coaches the scout offense during practice. He is the QB coach and assists me with DB's. He calls the offense on JV game days and is on the head phones with me for varsity games.
Position coach #2 is the JV DC. He is the assistant offensive and defensive line coach. He runs the scout defense during practice.
Position coach #3 is our DE/OLB coach and our WR coach on offense. He is in charge of quality control / film database management.
We have 3-4 Freshmen coaches as well. The HC of the freshman team is also in charge of our strength program. The freshman assistants will help scout and break film down.
So, the wealth on our staff is spread pretty well, I think. Our head coach lets every one coach for the most part, because we all know our roles and the techniques / schemes we are supposed to be teaching. I think with a newer or less experienced staff, the HC will tend to try to control more until guys are up to speed.
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dial51
Freshmen Member
Posts: 67
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Post by dial51 on Apr 23, 2006 19:49:32 GMT -6
I agree w/ Coach Calande when he said you have to 'coach your assistants so they can coach'. Also, even if you are a coordinator, I believe it is the head coach's right and authority to veto or change any call during a game. Whether you (as OC/DC) like it, agree w/ it, or not-- the head coach has his butt on the line.
Now, having said that, I also feel that if a HC gives you the authority to call plays, defenses, etc. then there should be some mutual trust and respect. Don't give someone a title just for name's sake.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2006 6:44:02 GMT -6
I feel lucky, real lucky that the head coach I work for is a darn good coach who expects us to be the same. The defense is mostly mine though it is totally in line with what he wants. I feel as if we're running things the way I want them, but I also know that it's how he wants it. Part of that is probably the amount of time we've spent working together on it.
I've been the guy who thought he should be upped, who thought he knew it all, and then kind of failed--not with the scheme and X's and O's, but within the staff (see EGO). Moved to a new school hundreds of miles away, decided that I would take whatever post they wanted me to take and would just be happy to coach. Next thing you know I'm climbing the charts based on merit, not on campaigning.
I'm a better coach now because I finally shut up and listened to someone else who knew more than I did. And ALL of us are better off for it. Now I'm a DC because I earned it and wasn't too prideful to be coached by the coach.
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