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Post by coachroberts99 on Jan 29, 2007 6:33:02 GMT -6
Hi Gents, Ok, this is a problem that was really highlighted at yesterdays training, that of our O-lineman being on the soft side. We don’t know why, and try as hard as we can trying to instill the desire to knock the hell out of guys, but they just don’t seem to “get it”. It kind of sums it up (in a rather odd way) when we were talking about who on the team you wouldn’t want to get into a fight with… Our big LB first, then maybe our DE, then the tough as sin CB, all could tear it up we reckon… but the the O-line??? we all fancied our chances of knocking them out cold… and that don’t seem right to me! Yesterday we were running some pulling drills with LB and RBs and consistently guys half their size are beating them, and a couple of times you had DBs sitting them on their arses. Now from a DC point of view I love seeing my guys drilling people, but I’m really feeling for our Line coach, who despite whatever he tries it just doesn’t seem to sink in. Coupled with a lack of physical dominance they also seem mentally lazy, and have an attitude that seems when they miss a block they tend to shrug it off, when they miss an assignment they shrug it off…they just don't seem to appreciate the level of play we expect from them. Does anyone have an idea of drills we can do, stuff we can tell them that might help them understand that they should be total wrecking machines and they should play as such?? Should they just run laps as punishment, should we be yelling at them more? We are a good team (#1 in the country in fact , and our line coach is highly respected and coaches in the national program, but it’s the weak link in the offence and needs some big improvements! Any input is very welcome as we are tearing our hair out over here! Thanks in frustration, Matt |
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Post by jaspercoach on Jan 29, 2007 9:35:02 GMT -6
"when they miss a block they tend to shrug it off, when they miss an assignment they shrug it off…they just don't seem to appreciate the level of play we expect from them"
Coach I'm not sure what to do to get them to take pride in their position. I have had years that started with attitudes like that and they did not end well.
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Jan 29, 2007 9:56:42 GMT -6
I hope someone can help with this as well.. I'm coming off a season in which I had linemen consistently unwilling to finish.. They knew their assignments inside and out, always got to where they needed to be (we pull alot), but never really finished their blocks..They tended to settle with "catching" a defender as opposed to driving him out of the hole..We worked on finishing every single day, and not looking behind them to see what was going on back there- yet come game time they seemed to block for a few seconds and turn into spectators.. Never seen anything like it.. We preach snap to whistle- we tell them the officials will tell them when the play is over, until then you keep blocking your man, and never slow down or look behind you.. Couldn't break them of that softness, for lack of a better word..
I feel for your line coach- I wish I had some suggestions for you because I know how frustrating that type of situation can be.. I couldn't fix it, but I'll be following this thread closely so if I find myself in that situation again I might have a few tricks up my sleeve from you guys..
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Post by lochness on Jan 29, 2007 9:58:25 GMT -6
Coach,
There's tons of different things you can TRY, but each group is different.
The first order of business is to go right back to fundamentals. Aggressiveness often is a direct result of confidence, and confidence comes from knowing your assignments and techniques inside and out. Get right back to teaching man blocking progressions, 1-on-1 drills, sled, chutes, etc.
The second thing is to really coach up the assignment aspect of things. We get with our OL every spare moment we can and go over assignments with them. If we are doing Kickoff and Kick Return period, for example, our OL coach will take our linemen who are not involved (which is usually pretty much all of them, unless we have some crazy guards) and take them aside and get extra instructional time in. Have some whiteboard or film sessions. Whatever it takes to get it to "click" with them.
Most importantly, make the OL the most important position on the team! We do all kinds of stuff for our OL. We give out the "golden spatula" every week, for a lineman who had the best pancake block. We talk to our linemen about how they feel about blocking schemes against various fronts we are going to see. We REALLY emphasize line play when we are breaking film down. It's nice to be able to consistently point out the efforts of the OL in a positive way in front of the whole team. Be really enthusiastic about success, and corrective about missed opportunities. Make sure the OL knows that they are an instrument of the team's attitude, even more so than the defense.
Otherwise, coach...you can't polish a turd. If you have kids that are not mentally or physically tough...there's not a whole lot you can do. Coach 'em up! The only other thing I could say is maybe you play some FB / TE types that are nasty on the interior, and move some of your big boys out of the way. A lot of times at the HS level, size is not as important as athleticism and aggressiveness.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 29, 2007 10:20:29 GMT -6
Coachroberts
A lot of this attitude can be addressed in the offseason by your strength coach. Putting a kid through a abnormally tough offseason can be very motivating if they know that it is a result of their laziness and lack of toughness. Make it a focal point in the offseason. Some drills we do to address this are:
1) Mat Drills - Conditioning early morning workouts. Don't stop until kids are puking. Let them know how tough things can be...
2) "Manmaker" Lifts- I used this concept early this past offseason. Got the ideas from Crossfit...
a)Manmaker Squats- 3x20@50%, 2min rest.
b)Manmaker 3's- 1 Clean Squat, 1 Front Squat, 1 Push
Jerk=1rep - 3x8, 2 min rest.
c)"The Crucible"- Nastiest Circuit workout you can think of- 45
secs straight, 15 secs switch- lasts 30 minutes.
d)any other sick-a$$ workout you can think of.
During the season, you may be able to break this laziness by staying on them and getting your leaders on the team to stay on them. You have to let them know that missing a block is not ok nor is forgetting who assignments. If they don't respond to you, maybe they'll respond to the "peer pressure" from that big LB, the DE, and that tough as sin CB...if they don't respond to any of this, bench one and play the toughest guy you have there.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 29, 2007 10:23:42 GMT -6
Otherwise, coach...you can't polish a turd. That's classic and just made my signature line, coach! |
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Post by tog on Jan 29, 2007 10:44:17 GMT -6
i use the one or two "butttkickers" that i have and keep pounding on the timid ones until the light comes on
problem is, when you don't have one of those guys
the last couple of years, i have had to do it, myself
getting too old for that stuff
my head hurts thinking about it
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Jan 29, 2007 11:07:02 GMT -6
Matt: First off, congratulations on the Gladiators' success. Does anyone have an idea of drills we can do, stuff we can tell them that might help them understand that they should be total wrecking machines and they should play as such?? Should they just run laps as punishment, should we be yelling at them more? Rather than berating your offensive linemen for what they haven't learned yet, I would make a point of teaching them exactly how you want them to perform, and then reinforcing it at every turn. Set up bags behind a stationary defender holding a hand shield so he will be cushioned on impact, then have your OLs pull (no more than 5 yards) and trap the bag-holder onto his back on the big bags (a pole vault pit will work for this as well, if you have access to one, but the big bags work fine -- make sure to set them back up quickly after each rep). You can run X number of reps per lineman to the right, then turn the drill around and have them pull and trap left. You are looking for two things from your OLs -- correct technique (right shoulder impact pulling right, left pulling left), and an authentic "pancake" block, a real "de-cleater". Since you are the Gladiators, call the drill "The Arena." Get your OL's to rotate through the drill as bag-holders, and have all those not pulling or holding the bag cheer for the trapper -- make some real noise, get him pumped up and into the spirit of the true warriors -- the death-dealing Gladiators of the offensive line... |
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Post by coachroberts99 on Jan 29, 2007 11:29:15 GMT -6
Cheers guys, that's some great advice, which I shall forward onto our line coach....
Ted, it's actually for the Essex Blades, the university team; we're really motoring this year, 5-0, conceeded only 2 TDs on D and about 175 net yards combined...... I used to play for the Glads (senior team) who did very well to last year 8-2, but I don't Coach them for various reasons. However I am the HC for the youth program.
However we shall come up with something "Blades" related!
That's given me some great ideas to take back to training and might help make men from mice!!
Thanks again, and please keep any ideas coming....
Matt
Matt
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Jan 29, 2007 11:33:29 GMT -6
Ted, it's actually for the Essex Blades, the university team Gee, Matt, I hope you haven't populated the O-line entirely with gay Blades... ...sorry, couldn't resist. ;D  ;D |
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Post by tarquin on Jan 29, 2007 12:54:01 GMT -6
Coaches,
I am the O-line coach that coach Roberts was talking about. The most frustrating thing is that they are a good bunch of guys who enjoy playing football but seem to lcak that killer edge! I know it's down to the person but they understand that it is a collision sport (he says)! I work with them on technique, assignments etc I am a very excitable coach which coach Roberts can testify to but it doesnt to get into heads to "bury" that DL or LB.
One of the main issues that American Football isnt sport that these guys play from a young age its not the "English" culture and some these guys have been playing for only a few months so have done well to get to where they are. However, quite a few of them played Rugby at school so are used to high intensity sports but are not confident in their abilities.
I think it may come down to assignments for a few of them as one coach pointed out. We try to record the sessions but getting them to watch it at the same time is hard and make them watch it to work on what went wrong is hard.
I've given them a unit name which they love and brag about we give them awards etc. We are having a unit meal tomorrow so will chat to them then about where we are at. I'm very open and honest with my guys so we shall see.
They have the "just do enough" mentality which I'm trying to rid of because our team has an opportunity to do something they never ever would have dreamed of and win the National title! It starts with the O-line but they dont appreciate that as much as I tell them because "just do enough" doesnt win you championships!
Apologies for going on!
Thanks for the input if you anything else to add the please do.
Cheers
Coach T
Essex Blades O-Line
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 29, 2007 13:02:38 GMT -6
BOARD DRILL!
Best drill I have ever used to get my OLIneman to get nasty!!
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Post by hchscoachtom on Jan 29, 2007 11:24:53 GMT -6
Coach Roberts, Are you sure you're not describing the OL of the Detroit Lions? I appreciate all of replies, I'm going to send this info. on to Detroit. |
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Post by chris5ft2 on Jan 29, 2007 11:29:26 GMT -6
One of the things we tried with our Linemen at the Phantoms, was bringing in a bat, and getting them to go ape-sh** on a tackle bag with it. Unfortunately, they'd hit the bag a few times, then stop and say "is that ok coach?"
Chris Hunt,
ARU Phantoms
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eric58
Junior Member
Me sparring Bruce Lee back in 79'
Posts: 298
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Post by eric58 on Jan 29, 2007 11:54:23 GMT -6
One thing you can do is get a towel and have 2 kids go at it on a mat. The object is to have one kid take the towel away from the other kid. They cannot punch in the face, bite, or hit in the privates but anything else goes. I heard a coach speak at a clinic and this is what he did because football wasn't a big thing in their school it was basketball. So he had to come up with ideas because he wasn't getting the kids he would have like to get.
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Post by wingman on Jan 29, 2007 14:37:25 GMT -6
We do the same drill eric describes with a towel. We did it for aggressiveness and to impat the idead that you have to fight for more than a few seconds
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Post by lochness on Jan 29, 2007 15:37:26 GMT -6
whitemike52, We all contribute in our own ways!  |
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Post by brophy on Jan 29, 2007 16:27:54 GMT -6
Kids who are Olinemen are typically the kids who have been FAT all their childhood (see if I'm wrong).
Kids who are DLinemen are either the crazy kid who got big / strong, or the fat kid that is a bully.
Now with that, those boys have been programmed from a young age to NOT be physical or aggressive, because the boys they played with were so much smaller than they are. You have to get inside those 'little boys' heads (who are teenagers) and reprogram them to understand it IS okay to be assertive and take charge and use their strength & size in a DOMINANT manner. Let them embrace who they are, and provide them a way to take pride in who the "are". Teenagers have it rough enough as it is trying to find a self-identity........let alone kids who have been taught all their upbringing to be ashamed of being so big.
Get inside the kids' heads and develop their self-perception - they will do whatever you ask / mold them to do.
Tire flips are a way for those Olinemen types to really kick butt at, moreso than any other position. Let them dominate that and take pride in destroying the tires..........it translates into their self-esteem and they start seeing themselves differently.
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Post by airman on Jan 29, 2007 18:46:17 GMT -6
boxing yes boxing. we teach boxing to our olineman. why, cause it aids is pass protection. I know it seems odd but I really think it has helped.
boxing is all about footwork and the ability to land a punch when needed. pass protection is all about footwork and being able to punch a moving target. see the carry over.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 29, 2007 20:37:34 GMT -6
what heterosexual male doesn't like competition?
one on one's, winner stays in, keep a record of the most wins. overall winner of the week gets a pizza lunch (they are lineman afterall)
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Post by airman on Jan 29, 2007 21:52:19 GMT -6
what heterosexual male doesn't like competition? one on one's, winner stays in, keep a record of the most wins. overall winner of the week gets a pizza lunch (they are lineman afterall) so you are saying homosexual males do not want to compete? check out the gay games held in chicago. |
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Post by lochness on Jan 30, 2007 8:39:45 GMT -6
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Post by los on Jan 30, 2007 11:08:25 GMT -6
tarquin, it sounds like you're doing what any of us would do, teaching fundamentals, building a unit(esprit de corps), trying to get them in shape, etc.. Like kw says often and I agree with, playing o-line is not a natural skill and must constantly be taught and reevaluated. Your guys, not being accustomed to playing american football from an early age, will take even longer to develop. The defense always looks great vs a young,inexperienced o-line! Besides the QB position, the o-line has been traditionally the toughest to learn in my opinion, so have patience, make your practices as physical as possible and hang in there buddy, they'll get better. Be a teacher not a screamer! lol And I agree with airman, boxing is a great football trainer!
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Post by los on Jan 30, 2007 15:01:55 GMT -6
Another thought, that kinda goes with what lochness already said, and something we used with young beginner linemen was first let them get proficient at blocking in close quarters, head on, perhaps even with very close splits(much like they would in rugby). This will let them use their size and power to an advantage, building confidence, then they can work on blocking in space against the quicker edge defenders, which is much more difficult. Its a slow progression and you shouldnt move forward till they all become proficient and learn to attack as a unit. You learn to block and build a good running game from inside out to me. In other words, if you cant block a simple inside dive, iso, wedge or whatever you run, theres no need to go any further, till this is corrected. It only gets tougher the further outside you try to run! Make any sense?
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Post by tog on Jan 30, 2007 15:22:24 GMT -6
BOARD DRILL! Best drill I have ever used to get my OLIneman to get nasty!! board drills or anti "wussy" drills as I call em don't work well when they are ALL weenies hence, my previous post when they are ALL like that, YOU as the ol coach have to get in there and mix it up or bring someone down from another position, linebackers work nice and beat on em until the light bulb goes off if you have 1 guy that has it, then make sure he "helps establish the kind of intensity you want" on as many people as you can make it happen another thing that helps not real football specific, is train them from day one to go until the whistle blows, if anyone ever quits during any drill, up downs, or something along those lines for everyone, as the whole ol plays together this has to be drilled into the first then, when doing anti weenie drills, just don't blow the whistle they will get more mad at each other and pick up the intensity over having to do up downs that getting their butts kicked, and finally one of them or more than one of them will snap and the light bulb is on |
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Post by tog on Jan 30, 2007 15:23:22 GMT -6
and yes
i have been at places that have had horrible linemen
WHEN I GOT THERE
then that changed
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 30, 2007 16:32:45 GMT -6
You need to get them so mad that they are to the point that they want to kill, then you need to teach them to be focused while maintaining the ferocity. Hamburger drills. Line the entire team up and have the oline stand in front of them, then the olineman takes on each player running at/through him with a flipper. Its brutal, but effective. If you don't have your linemen ready to fight or quit after this then your doing it wrong. Then circle up and play "sumo challenge" if the olinemen gets tossed from his circle, he does 100 updowns. IMO, you have to teach olinemen with a different mentality than other positions, gotta be part Marine DI, part mother, part buddy but you have always got to demand effort and toughness. Talking to them about it won't work, you have to put them on to a forge and pound on them until they are steel. Make it an honor to be a linemen, earned, not given.
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;D
