juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by juice10 on Oct 9, 2007 12:21:54 GMT -6
No particular order
Meyer Gagliardi Carroll Kehres Tressel
How about all time in your opinion.
Big fan of:
Osborne Alvarez Gagliardi Paterno Spurrier
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 9, 2007 12:37:29 GMT -6
coaching doesnt matter , this is just silly.
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Post by coachbw on Oct 9, 2007 17:25:16 GMT -6
[quote Craig Bohl? Second worst defesnsive coordinator in NU History, fired, tared and feathered at Nebraska, He was a terrible DC.[/quote]
I won't argue with the defensive coordinator stuff, but to take a good D2 school and turn them into one of the top D1AA schools, and competing with and between D1 schools in 3 or 4 years shows his ability as a head coach.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2007 17:39:00 GMT -6
Pantherpride---GREAT point about Weis.
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danimal23
Freshmen Member
Polk High, 4 tds in 1 game
Posts: 44
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Post by danimal23 on Oct 10, 2007 7:33:07 GMT -6
I agree Weis will prove himself at ND in the next 2 years, once they get through this awful year. The reason why he can't be on this list now is he has admitted that he has made mistakes this year in dealing with a young team that led to some of the really, really bad performances the first 3 weeks. Not enough time on fundamentals, blocking and tackling and it showed. After Michigan, he went back to 'training camp' and they have improved every week. A year ago i would have argued that he deserved to be on the list by getting to 2 BCS bowls with a team that had very few playmakers outside of Brady Quinn.
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Post by WTR on Oct 10, 2007 8:28:51 GMT -6
leadership----yes, I saw the Nick Saban motivational poster for "leadership" the other day. Had him calling his ex players and leaving voicemail messages to tell them he was gone, and the coaches would have to look for new jobs. "REad my lips...I will NOT be the head coach at Alabama" Leadership 101..tell em one thing, do the other. We all know you hate Nick Saban from previous threads. There's no need to hijack this thread and turn it into your own "Top 5 reason's I hate Nick Saban" thread. Back on topic, in no order: Tressell Spurrier Saban Meyer Tedford
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 10, 2007 8:54:51 GMT -6
wtr--back on topic??? 4 days subsequent to the post??
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Post by WTR on Oct 10, 2007 10:35:43 GMT -6
wtr--back on topic??? 4 days subsequent to the post?? The post before mine was posted at 7:30 AM and I posted at 8:30 AM. So the thread was still recent. Sorry, I dont live on the internet. ;D
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Oct 12, 2007 9:25:33 GMT -6
coaching doesnt matter , this is just silly. Of course it matters, but not as much as you seem to think, ie it is the only thing that matters.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 12, 2007 11:59:49 GMT -6
Oh I see, it only matters when a coach is winning, if they are losing its the jimmies and joes.
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Post by airman on Oct 12, 2007 12:05:18 GMT -6
I do not think coaches like carroll or brown or meyer are great coaches. it is not to hard to win when you have great athletes.
put them at bottom feeders and I we will see how good a coach they are. put them a northwestern or say miss or miss state in the sec.
to me great coaches are the ones who can take programs to the top and stay consistant. the late randy walker at northwestern is some one who comes to mind.
Ron Zook seems to have the illini on the right track.
spurrier had the cream of the crop of athletes while at florida but what he is doing at SC is impressive. he is turning a program around which has had little success over the years.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 12, 2007 14:22:08 GMT -6
Umm..airman...Meyer seemed to do ok BEFORE FLA...... And Ron Zook....didn't seem to do as well as the guy before him, or after him.....
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Oct 12, 2007 14:36:08 GMT -6
Oh I see, it only matters when a coach is winning, if they are losing its the jimmies and joes. You think very highly of yourself, don't you? Why do you constantly want to discredit contributions of players to winning football games? I really feel you want people to say coaching is more important than players because it somehow serves your ego. You want people to think of you as the reason for anything your team accomplishes. You want people to think you are a great mastermind. Any coach would be nothing without their players. Well maybe they would be great in theory.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2007 16:24:58 GMT -6
I disagree with the comment about Carroll and Meyer. Part of (A LOT of) college success is determined by recruiting. Being great recruiters is part of what makes them great college coaches.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 12, 2007 17:19:08 GMT -6
I do not think coaches like carroll or brown or meyer are great coaches. it is not to hard to win when you have great athletes. put them at bottom feeders and I we will see how good a coach they are. put them a northwestern or say miss or miss state in the sec. to me great coaches are the ones who can take programs to the top and stay consistant. the late randy walker at northwestern is some one who comes to mind. Ron Zook seems to have the illini on the right track. spurrier had the cream of the crop of athletes while at florida but what he is doing at SC is impressive. he is turning a program around which has had little success over the years. Meyer won everywhere he's been, and at non power houses like Bowling Green and Utah, where are those guys since he left? Guys that lose consistently all want to think coaching is some big luck of the draw lottery thing. JuST LIKE EVERYTHING IN LIFE, IN EVERY PROFFESSION THERE ARE GREAT< GOOD< AVERAGE AND POOR levels of expertice. priorities and effort. Not everyone is Soviet style/Animal Farm equal, everyone is different. There are great, average and poor waitresses, there are great, average and poor salespeople, there are great, average and poor computer programmers. Does coaching somehow defy the laws of human nature, is it somehow immune to what happens in every other profession in the historry of mankind? Coaching is the same there are great, good, average and poor coaches, Meyer IS GREAT! Zook was average at Florida, Northwestern is at the top? Are they even top 25? If so, consistently? BTW Your buddy Zook had losing records 0-3 vs your "bottom feeder" examples Miss, and Miss State, with all the talent he had
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2007 10:58:14 GMT -6
I think it is just TOO hard to qualify "good, top, great, " when it comes to coaching because of the multitude of factors that would go into your decision. Timing is a huge one, and media/public perception is another.
If this thread was 2 or 3 years ago, Charlie Weis & Kirk Frentz would probably be in the discussion. 6 years ago, Llyod Carr would probably be mentioned.
Some coaches probably will never garner the true "respect" they deserve. Saban was a very impressive 48-16 at LSU, with 1 national title and a few SEC championship game wins.
Les Miles is currently a sparkling 28-4, having accomplished a few things that NO LSU coach has ever done, (back to back dbl digit wins, beating FLA, Au, and Bama in the same year, dealing with Hurricane Katrina and Rita...) Should this season play out like many think, he will have more dbl digit wins than Saban, and possibly (don't have the data infront of me) the most dbl digit winning seasons in Tiger Football History.
Saban's name often comes up in discussions like this, Miles's never seems to. Not saying this is right/wrong or whatever, because judgement is judgement. Just saying that certain coaches seem to just fall into a public persona of "top" and others don't.
Which of these is "better"
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herky
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
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Post by herky on Oct 13, 2007 13:45:45 GMT -6
Ron Zook Ron Zook Ron Zook Ron Zook Ron Zook Sorry...couldn't help myself! Sure you don't want to reconsider that? Zook clearly made some questionable choices today....but it works for me! Go Hawks!! Oh...and add Kirk Ferentz to the list!!
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Post by brophy on Oct 13, 2007 14:12:29 GMT -6
this is an obscure discussion because it walks the fine line between respecting leadership approaches and "being a fan".
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 15:25:03 GMT -6
I think it is just TOO hard to qualify "good, top, great, " when it comes to coaching because of the multitude of factors that would go into your decision. Timing is a huge one, and media/public perception is another. If this thread was 2 or 3 years ago, Charlie Weis & Kirk Frentz would probably be in the discussion. 6 years ago, Llyod Carr would probably be mentioned. Some coaches probably will never garner the true "respect" they deserve. Saban was a very impressive 48-16 at LSU, with 1 national title and a few SEC championship game wins. Les Miles is currently a sparkling 28-4, having accomplished a few things that NO LSU coach has ever done, (back to back dbl digit wins, beating FLA, Au, and Bama in the same year, dealing with Hurricane Katrina and Rita...) Should this season play out like many think, he will have more dbl digit wins than Saban, and possibly (don't have the data infront of me) the most dbl digit winning seasons in Tiger Football History. Saban's name often comes up in discussions like this, Miles's never seems to. Not saying this is right/wrong or whatever, because judgement is judgement. Just saying that certain coaches seem to just fall into a public persona of "top" and others don't. Which of these is "better" Charlie Weis? Most any one that is not a ND or Iowa homer would look at the long term, same for Ferenz. How does ANYONE with less than 50 wins make any reasonable persons list? 8-5. 8-5. 8-5 at Florida Ron Zook doesnt make mine with all that wasted talent, National Champs before and after him there. Im an A&M grad and NU fan and no one from either ever crosses my mind as being in the top 50. Not mine. I give up. All coaches are very good, every one of them to a man. It is the only proffession in the history of mankind where there are only very good and competent people doing their jobs at all times. All coaches are equal in ability, decison making, and effort, all 100% equal. Unlike other proffessions where there are great, very good, good, fair and poorly skilled people in place, coaches on the other hand are all very good or above. Obviously all the ones with great records got lucky in the lottery world of coaching, and all the poor record guys got bad breaks. Has zip to do with ability unlike all the other proffesions out there in the history of mankind LOL. Thats why I never play slot machines, its all luck, same would be the case in coaching I guess. What a choice to make, where your future is all about luck and blameless circumstance.
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Post by brophy on Oct 13, 2007 16:38:58 GMT -6
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Post by khalfie on Oct 13, 2007 16:52:09 GMT -6
8-5. 8-5. 8-5 at Florida Ron Zook doesnt make mine with all that wasted talent, National Champs before and after him there. You're ranting like a crazy man... Steve Spurrier, himself, said he left the cupboard bare, upon leaving UF... Zook won with what was left, restocked the cupboards, and when those dandy recruits came of age, he was fired. Zook had those boys winning as Freshmen and Sophomores... not enough of course... cause he didn't win a NC... Urb, Weis... they have to play with their kids now... lets see how they do. Urb has never played with his kids... Weren't his kids at Utah... weren't his kids at Florida... weren't his kids at Bowling Green... So again... you make good points... coaching matters... But you lose all credibility, when you act like the big dogs didn't have the horses!
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 17:48:57 GMT -6
8-5. 8-5. 8-5 at Florida Ron Zook doesnt make mine with all that wasted talent, National Champs before and after him there. You're ranting like a crazy man... Steve Spurrier, himself, said he left the cupboard bare, upon leaving UF... Zook won with what was left, restocked the cupboards, and when those dandy recruits came of age, he was fired. Zook had those boys winning as Freshmen and Sophomores... not enough of course... cause he didn't win a NC... Urb, Weis... they have to play with their kids now... lets see how they do. Urb has never played with his kids... Weren't his kids at Utah... weren't his kids at Florida... weren't his kids at Bowling Green... So again... you make good points... coaching matters... But you lose all credibility, when you act like the big dogs didn't have the horses! Yep Meyer hit the perfect lucky lottery trifecta at 3 different schools. What are the odds? And then he wins with a system that IS NOT WHAT THE PREVIOUS KIDS HAD BEEN RECRUITED FOR. Yep, different system, same kids, wins in no time. All luck. I didnt realize Tebow was a Zook recruit Again, coaching defys all laws of human nature, there are no average, below average or poor coaches. they are all very good or above. When I had my business I always asked the guys I was hiring who the top guy in their field was and what they thought of him. The winners always spoke admiringly of the top guys talents, efforts etc. The guys on the bottom always spoke negatively, always making excuses how the top guy got some kind of imaginary breaks etc. The negative guys I never hired and always suggested they read the book "Atlas Shrugged", hope they did. The guys that werent jealous of the top guy and just wanted to be in that spot were the ones that had long term success, they "got it".
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Post by khalfie on Oct 13, 2007 18:43:33 GMT -6
I didnt realize Tebow was a Zook recruit When I had my business I always asked the guys I was hiring who the top guy in their field was and what they thought of him. The winners always spoke admiringly of the top guys talents, efforts etc. The guys on the bottom always spoke negatively, always making excuses how the top guy got some kind of imaginary breaks etc. The negative guys I never hired and always suggested they read the book "Atlas Shrugged", hope they did. The guys that werent jealous of the top guy and just wanted to be in that spot were the ones that had long term success, they "got it". Tebow won the NC for Urb? Nevermind the leadership and direction of Chris Leak... right... Tebow ran single wing... I must have forgotten. So you hired all the winners and none of the losers? How'd that work out for ya? Nevermind, another discussion for another time... Chuck Weis... two great seasons... 1-6... what's wrong? Can't coach anymore? Larry Coker... 35-2 in his first three years... 5-4 in his sixth... fired... what's wrong? Couldn't coach anymore? No longer a WINNER? The point is this... no one's disagreeing with your delineation of coaching ability... just your extremist stance that you're either great or not and that you can determine such... There's a multitude of factors that dictate a coaches success... and one is TALENT... to what part talent plays... well... we just aren't as egomaniacle as yourself to try and make that determination... we agree it is a factor and leave it at that. You, on the other hand, have gone as far as to not only say certain coaches are better than others, but more so have the audacity to try to provide a list of whose good, and whose not. Based on what? Wins and losses? NC's? Its all about the HC huh? What about his staff? Bobby B... hasn't been looking so great since the exodus of many of his top guys... but I guess he's just getting old. What about talent? I've seen many a poor coach put together an outstanding year, when the kids didn't need any coaching... just as I've seen great coaches, make .500 when the average coach wouldn't have won a game. Final point, and then I'm done. I define a great coach, by what old Bobby Knight used to say, "he could be you with his... and then turn around and beat you with yours." That's how I determine great coaching.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 19:02:25 GMT -6
I didnt realize Tebow was a Zook recruit When I had my business I always asked the guys I was hiring who the top guy in their field was and what they thought of him. The winners always spoke admiringly of the top guys talents, efforts etc. The guys on the bottom always spoke negatively, always making excuses how the top guy got some kind of imaginary breaks etc. The negative guys I never hired and always suggested they read the book "Atlas Shrugged", hope they did. The guys that werent jealous of the top guy and just wanted to be in that spot were the ones that had long term success, they "got it". Tebow won the NC for Urb? Nevermind the leadership and direction of Chris Leak... right... Tebow ran single wing... I must have forgotten. So you hired all the winners and none of the losers? How'd that work out for ya? Nevermind, another discussion for another time... Chuck Weis... two great seasons... 1-6... what's wrong? Can't coach anymore? Larry Coker... 35-2 in his first three years... 5-4 in his sixth... fired... what's wrong? Couldn't coach anymore? No longer a WINNER? The point is this... no one's disagreeing with your delineation of coaching ability... just your extremist stance that you're either great or not and that you can determine such... There's a multitude of factors that dictate a coaches success... and one is TALENT... to what part talent plays... well... we just aren't as egomaniacle as yourself to try and make that determination... we agree it is a factor and leave it at that. You, on the other hand, have gone as far as to not only say certain coaches are better than others, but more so have the audacity to try to provide a list of whose good, and whose not. Based on what? Wins and losses? NC's? Its all about the HC huh? What about his staff? Bobby B... hasn't been looking so great since the exodus of many of his top guys... but I guess he's just getting old. What about talent? I've seen many a poor coach put together an outstanding year, when the kids didn't need any coaching... just as I've seen great coaches, make .500 when the average coach wouldn't have won a game. Final point, and then I'm done. I define a great coach, by what old Bobby Knight used to say, "he could be you with his... and then turn around and beat you with yours." That's how I determine great coaching. Sold the company about 10 years ago for over $48,000,000 total. ( Shamrock Computer Resources to Registry) Contract Programing Company about 530 employees. Dominant frim in our niche in 2 bracncehs I set up in Omaha and Des Moines, so yes the strategy worked pretty well. Over time great coaches outperform average to poor coaches. Not sure anyone would say Wies is great after just 3 seasons, that would be very premature. WIns/Losses, playing to potential determines greatness. If you coach for a team that sucks and you take a group that shoudl be 0-10 and win 3 games people in the know notice and you get a better gig., Happened here an Inner City HS coach took a crappy team, crappy program, bad numbers, wins 3-4-5 games a year. Today hes coaching a great school with big numbers and some talent and hes 7-1, coached the Shrine Bowl when he was with the loser program, people knew he was a very good coach even with all the loses.. BTW the team that he left has won just 1 game in 2 years and is losing every game by 40-50-60 now, Before with him, different story ( Omaha South and Omaha Central now) And yes Bobby is a great one, but when I saw him last year in Orlando, hes down to about 5'2" and awfully old. Forgot mid sentence one of his old rubber chicken circuit stories etc There are great and not so great even poor coaches, that's just a fact some arent quite willing to accept. The facts are that in every endevor there are great, and poor performers. BTW Ive not been one of the many that has put names on that top 5 list, only commented on the many that have. Hall of Fame coaches win games and most win championships as well over the long haul. Part of being a great Head coach is hiring and firing assistants, just like a good CEO surrounds himself with the right mix of talent and personalities to put a company on top. Or you can use the Bill Calahan method, hire an old college buddy who never has amounted to anything as a college coach and get run out of town for your silly hire ( Cosgrove DC at NU who today broke a 114 year old record of four 40 point games in one season and he will have at LEAST 2 more, with his defense at an averrage of 3.7 Rivals Stars, his own recruited kids, just awful the kids have no idea what they are supposed to be doing) Today had 10 defenders on the field for 2 plays and many many snaps where the kids are not set, total chaos.
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Post by khalfie on Oct 13, 2007 19:53:51 GMT -6
Now that...
I can't argue with...
$48,000,000.00? Call me impressed? Pesos or yen?
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 20:06:02 GMT -6
It was you that asked 'How did that work out for you, hiring the winners and not the whinners/excuse makers?" Google it and find out for yourself LOL. Atlas Shrugged really is a must read.
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Post by tog on Oct 13, 2007 20:09:08 GMT -6
rand is good stuff dave
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 20:19:38 GMT -6
Yep, but "The Fountainhead" took me 2 1/2 weeks to read. "Atlas Shrugged" was a 2 day marathon, left work early to finish the dang thing. Bought it on tape ( 10-12 cassetts if I remember right) for my sales guys to listen to. She was a brilliant author. Ronald Reagans favorite book and should be mandatory reading for any economist. BTW Omaha has a "John Gault" road.
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Post by CVBears on Oct 13, 2007 20:30:01 GMT -6
harbaugh looks pretty good so far
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 14, 2007 0:42:36 GMT -6
Some coaches probably will never garner the true "respect" they deserve. Saban was a very impressive 48-16 at LSU, with 1 national title and a few SEC championship game wins. Les Miles is currently a sparkling 28-4, having accomplished a few things that NO LSU coach has ever done, (back to back dbl digit wins, beating FLA, Au, and Bama in the same year, dealing with Hurricane Katrina and Rita...) Should this season play out like many think, he will have more dbl digit wins than Saban, and possibly (don't have the data infront of me) the most dbl digit winning seasons in Tiger Football History. Saban's name often comes up in discussions like this, Miles's never seems to. Not saying this is right/wrong or whatever, because judgement is judgement. Just saying that certain coaches seem to just fall into a public persona of "top" and others don't. Which of these is "better" And as if on cue, a quick look at any of the LSU or SEC media boards, and you will find the LSU fans are once again ready to run Les Miles out of town.... for his 5th loss in 3 years... to a ranked team... on the road... after a very emotional prime time win last week... Granted, LSU fans are more ignorant than most (Thats just going by state educational data), but I still firmly believe that certain people just get labeled "a great coach" and others will never receive any credit. Also, just throwing this out to all those who use the phrase "Yeah, but he is winning with _____ 's (previous coach) players." Wouldn't that also mean that he is LOSING with those players too. I Just wonder where the consistency is. This obviously just isn't pointed to LSU, but to any situation where the Sr.'s or Jr's & Sr's are from the previous regime.
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