brmurf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 93
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Post by brmurf on Feb 14, 2006 8:24:03 GMT -6
I need some serious answers--I coach at a small rural school and need some real advice. We are not athletically gifted, ie slow, and I dont have a true RB (the one I have returning has played OL his whole life, but did decent at FB last yr). I los tto grad the only threat I had. My Qb is a decent thrower but overweight and I have NO back up on the team, as in I'm workin on converting a kid who has never played before but I know that he will be around and is a hard worker. I dont ahve a true Tb and recievers are not burners.
My question is----what would some of you guys do offensivley?? and dont give me the punt on 1st down answer I want to know what you would do in that situation.
Oh ya I will be breaking in 3 new OL this year with 2 of them being Sophs
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Post by brophy on Feb 14, 2006 8:27:52 GMT -6
bone or wing T
but that's me
**I know the QB is 'big'....but is he 'tough'?
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 14, 2006 8:39:03 GMT -6
Boy that is a tough one but not something I am unfamiliar with. What do you, as a coach, (and staff) know and are comfortable with? That is where I would start.
I might be able to help you with the belly series. Slow down the pursuit to allow your slower backs to get some yardage? I know you said your OL will be young but what are they like physically/mentally?
How do you feel about option? Can the QB handle it? Can you build around your FB? If not who do you think you should build around? I'll help you any way that I can. I have been in this situation before.
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fish
Junior Member
Posts: 485
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Post by fish on Feb 14, 2006 8:43:52 GMT -6
1st, are you dissatisfied with your offense and were going to change anyway?
2nd, what basic power plays are built into your offense that you use regularly?
i'd say look at your system first and see what's built in to suit your players abilities.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2006 8:44:14 GMT -6
I agree about the Bone or Wing-T with Far/Near backs. Some Unbalanced up front can get your guys where you want them.
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Post by saintrad on Feb 14, 2006 8:46:28 GMT -6
never thought i would say this, but ever heard of the double wing?
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Post by cougarcoach on Feb 14, 2006 8:51:49 GMT -6
My advice would be to simply run what you and your staff believe in. Get the kids to believe in it and give it hell. In this tough situation there is no room for second guessing. Make it fun for everyone and let it all hang out. My opinion - be balanced and take your best situation. No huddle (not in a hurry) and call plays based on how they line up.
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Post by coachnicholson on Feb 14, 2006 8:57:48 GMT -6
What ever you decide to do offensively I think you must install a "check with me" system at the LOS. The way it sounds you will be out manned most of the time therefore checking into the best possible play would be a great way to make up for your lack of talent. Find and exploit the advantages that the defense gives to you...put your kids in the best possible situations to succed.
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
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Post by crl on Feb 14, 2006 9:00:46 GMT -6
veer
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Post by superpower on Feb 14, 2006 9:13:48 GMT -6
I have had success with the same kind of kids running the double wing. In a situation such as you have described, I think the best strategy is "3 yards and a cloud of dust," and your kids can do that if you teach them the basics. The great thing about the DW is that a poor rb can look decent and a decent athlete can look very good. If you have a very good athlete at wing in the DW, he can be an all-stater. And average kids can get it done up front if they will be disciplined. Your situation will require that the kids work together and not wait for a "superstar" to make plays...the DW is built on that teamwork philosophy.
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Post by tigerone on Feb 14, 2006 9:22:09 GMT -6
Double tite Wish Bone! Run the ISV and OSV (triple). Your going to get that double team at the POA, and if your FB can hit the hole with a little momentum at least, you will have a chance
to get the 3-4 yds you will be looking for on every play. The whole theory behind the option when it was first introduced was to make a smaller offensive line able to compete with bigger defensive lines by doing away with the necessity of a little guy taking on a much bigger one by himself. By virtue of the doubleteams, this is accomplished whereby the 2 smaller guys can handle the one bigger one together. My reason for suggesting this offense is to simply hope that although your OL isn't the greatest, that with JOINT EFFORTS TOGETHER, they can create the holes for the dive back!
Coach Easton
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jet
Sophomore Member
Posts: 234
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Post by jet on Feb 14, 2006 9:30:19 GMT -6
I would say to go to wing-t because it doesn't require you to blow people off the ball with your o-line. Our 0-line wasn't very good and we still were able to run the ball effectivley. The no huddle suggestion is an excellent one by one of the coaches. Don't play fast if you don't have the talent. That will absolutley kill you. Just like he said go slow let the defense take you to what you want to run. If your q.b. is big I would suggest going some empty backs and running your q.b. even if he's slow by formation you can remove defenders from the box. Also like another coach said make sure he understands how to get out of a bad play and check to something else. Between jet, belly and trap/midline (if you've got the q.b.) one of those three is going to be open on any given play so teach him how to get into the right play. If none of those is open then they've got 9 or 10 in the box so you need to throw.
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scox80
Freshmen Member
If quitters never win, and winners never quit. Who is the fool who said quit while your ahead?
Posts: 91
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Post by scox80 on Feb 14, 2006 9:39:04 GMT -6
For situations like that is why I employ the wing t. But.....I would say not to switch to it if you aren't comfortable with it now. Go with what you know! Some one said in an above post sitck with what you believe in. All you need to do is have hard working kids who believe in you, your staff and your systems and you should do well. One other thing...make sure your defense is great cause you need to keep scoring low it sounds like.
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bvs5
Probationary Member
Posts: 6
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Post by bvs5 on Feb 14, 2006 9:50:18 GMT -6
STOLEN FROM BILL WALSH STANFORD PLAYBOOK
A GREAT OFFENSE IS ONE THAT:
-HAS UNIFYING PRINCIPLES THAT GIVE IT SIMPLICITY AND IDENTIFYABLILITY
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-IS THE SAME OFFENSE THAT IT WAS 3 YEARS AGO
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-CAN BE LEARNED SO THOROUGHLY BY PLAYERS THAT THERE IS TIME TO GAIN ENERGY
-HAS A WAY TO LIMIT INPUT BY COACHES,BECAUSE NEW IDEAS ARE SO ALLURING AND COACHES LIKETO SO MUCH SEE THEIR IDEAS DEFEAT OPPONENTS IDEAS
-IS COMPREHENDED THOROUGHLY BY ALL COACHES
-PUTS PRESSURE ON PLAYERS TO MAKE IT WORK--IT HAS ANSWERS AND IS NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR POOR PERFORMANCE
-TAKES YOU FROM GOALINE TO GOALINE WITHOUT STACKING BODIES
-DOES NOT LET THE DEFENSE LOAD UP AGAINST A FORMATION OR TYPE OF PLAY
-LETS BALL CARRIERS CARRY IN SPACE AWAY FROM PURSUIT
-CAN ATTACK FROM BEHIND(IN POINTS)AND WIN
-IS PLEASING TO THE FANS BECAUSE OF ITS SURPRISE AND FAKING AND GAMBLING
BREAKS RECORDS AND RANKS HIGH IN STATISTICS
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 14, 2006 9:59:56 GMT -6
wing t, single wing or double wing...something that relies on TEAM rather than individual athletes. I think double teams and traps and great angles can be pretty successful for y0ur kids. smashmouth football will also keep your defense off the field.
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Post by bigdaddyd on Feb 14, 2006 10:41:46 GMT -6
Coach,
Imo go with the Wing T (easy install) Coach Calande is a wing guru. He could probably help you out with some pointers....
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Post by mncoach72 on Feb 14, 2006 10:57:01 GMT -6
Coach,
My suggestion is to slow the pace of the game down. Use a stopwatch to time the play clock and try to snap the ball with 5 seconds left. We used this against the number one seed in the section and they were better than us and more physical. They beat a team 47-17 that we lost to 44-15. They scored with 3 minutes left to beat us 21-12.
I feel the longer a underdog team hangs around, the more confidence it gets and the more they start to think "hey we can beat these guys"
Good luck
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Post by lochness on Feb 14, 2006 11:03:22 GMT -6
mncoach72,
I really like that idea. How did you practice this specifically? We don't have playclocks on our scoreboards, so was it managed from the sideline or was it more of a "feel" thing based on lots of time practicing it?
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Post by mncoach72 on Feb 14, 2006 11:14:28 GMT -6
Loch, We had a sophmore coach who would stand by me and as soon as the whistle blew to start the play clock he hit the stop watch. We either ran in the play or signaled it in right away. The quaterback would read the play and then look to the sidelines. We would give him a thumbs up with about 12 to 15 seconds left and he called it. We practiced that during the week. Main points that we had problems with was the quaterback not looking to the sidelines and us coaches screaming to get his attention to run the play. We didn't have any delay of games but I think I lost a year of my life due to all the screaming.  |
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brmurf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 93
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Post by brmurf on Feb 14, 2006 11:14:40 GMT -6
Great answers guys----I appreciate the input. I am comfortable with most schemes--have run a lot of option in the past, however this past yr my Qb was a great athlete and we evolved to a Utah spread game. We rushed for more yds than in previous 4 yrs and also passed for more than in last 13 yrs. New Qb is a better thrower but way below as a runner. I like the spread game cause it opens up holes and doesnt require the OL to be dominant----also have no huddle installed and go at 3 speeds rabbit, regular, and turtle. I feel a lot of turtle in our future.
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Post by knighter on Feb 14, 2006 14:31:22 GMT -6
mn-
me likey that idea. me likey a lot!
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Post by runtheball86 on Feb 14, 2006 14:46:15 GMT -6
The veer is too QB reliant ... that is, if he goes down your ofense is sunk.
Go the Double Wing and use MN's ideas about clock management. Despite other ideas, the OL does not need to be dominant in the DW ... they are all working together. Moving to the DW will be the salvation of our program. Email me at housyfootball@hotmail.com for more discusion.
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Post by thurman on Feb 14, 2006 14:49:35 GMT -6
Spread em out with 5 wide and throw it every play.. .
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 14, 2006 14:56:45 GMT -6
Go with the old single-wing. Some people still run it around here. Just put your 2 best athletes in the shotgun behind the Guards, with your best thrower in the middle, and snap it to one of the three. Good luck. Hopefully some athletes come your way
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Post by coachmacplains on Feb 14, 2006 15:06:26 GMT -6
brmurf, For a minute there I thought you were describing my team for several of the years I've coached.  Several seasons ago I went with the veer concept and have not regretted it. Though we've done some different things formation-wise, we have never strayed from the idea of ISV/OSV being bread & butter, though we have added midline to the mix. It seems to me that the veer is relatively easy to teach and the kids grasp the concepts right away. I'm of the opinion that you don't have to have a star QB to run it and it gives you the chance to have a ball control offense...keep the other team's offense on the bench. In my 18 years, our six best total offense seasons have come out of running the veer. I still think Bill Yeoman's conception of the game is one of the most practical around, especially for teams lacking great athletes up front. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2006 15:23:47 GMT -6
Coach brmurf,
Inverted bone is a way of getting two fullbacks on the field if you have another one to go with the ex--offensive lineman you described. It's a natural way to control the clock and isn't QB reliant at all. I know you said your oline was young, but all they have to do in this offense is come off the ball hard.
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Post by tog on Feb 14, 2006 15:24:09 GMT -6
bmurf
I changed the name of the post to just "need answers"
people have to put "i need serious answers" on boards that are not serious most of the time
this board is
we have some fun, but we know how to stay on task
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 14, 2006 17:51:57 GMT -6
Coach, My suggestion is to slow the pace of the game down. Use a stopwatch to time the play clock and try to snap the ball with 5 seconds left. We used this against the number one seed in the section and they were better than us and more physical. They beat a team 47-17 that we lost to 44-15. They scored with 3 minutes left to beat us 21-12. I feel the longer a underdog team hangs around, the more confidence it gets and the more they start to think "hey we can beat these guys" Good luck We have used this same tactic. I have a coach keep the stopwatch, and the qb looks to me for a signal of when to begin the cadence. The best defense is keeping there offense on the sideline. |
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Post by knighter on Feb 14, 2006 18:19:19 GMT -6
most of us can stay on task. i however suffer from adult add, therefor i tend to ramble on and on with no apparent end in site, what were we talking about again....lol
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Post by knighter on Feb 15, 2006 6:40:58 GMT -6
On a serious note. Whatever you decide upon, you need to go "all in". Do not try to run a little of this and a little of that (what I refer to as a grab bag style). Find something you can 1st sell yourself on, and 2 sell your assistants on. Than use that to sell your kids. Find something that is systematic and simple. For me that was doublewing, for you it may be something else. Really in my opinion the difference between a DW team with no talent and a chuck and duck team with no talent is the final score.
DW may lose 21-14 or something similar
Chuck and Duck may end up more like 52-42.
Again believe in what you do, do not look back, and go all in.
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Several seasons ago I went with the veer concept and have not regretted it. Though we've done some different things formation-wise, we have never strayed from the idea of ISV/OSV being bread & butter, though we have added midline to the mix. It seems to me that the veer is relatively easy to teach and the kids grasp the concepts right away. I'm of the opinion that you don't have to have a star QB to run it and it gives you the chance to have a ball control offense...keep the other team's offense on the bench. In my 18 years, our six best total offense seasons have come out of running the veer. I still think Bill Yeoman's conception of the game is one of the most practical around, especially for teams lacking great athletes up front.
