wvcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@coach_wellman]
Posts: 288
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Post by wvcoach on Sept 19, 2012 19:38:02 GMT -6
This is a very general question. No relevance at all, just curious.
Given the opportunity to be a head coach, would you rather take a job:
A) At a large school (800+ in my state) that represents an entire county or large city (could be consolidated), has tons of money, etc.
B) A small school that represents one, maybe two, small towns, everyone knows everyone, and the community support is intense.
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 19, 2012 20:56:56 GMT -6
How small are cities in your state if 800 students is all you get?
For me, a medium-large HS of 1200-1800 is ideal, not jus for football but it's whe the school starts to be able to do all the little things without becoming nebulous.
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 19, 2012 21:00:02 GMT -6
I agree on the big school.
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Post by fantom on Sept 20, 2012 6:21:53 GMT -6
This is a very general question. No relevance at all, just curious. Given the opportunity to be a head coach, would you rather take a job: A) At a large school (800+ in my state) that represents an entire county or large city (could be consolidated), has tons of money, etc. B) A small school that represents one, maybe two, small towns, everyone knows everyone, and the community support is intense. Sent from my iPhone using ProBoards Is that 800 total students (boys and girls) in grades 9-12? If so that does seem small for the largest classification. Since I've never coached at a school with under 1000 students I'd have to say I'd prefer the big school. Most small schools are in rural areas. I don't like really big cities but I don't think rural is for me either.
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Post by coachbuck on Sept 20, 2012 6:29:58 GMT -6
Yeah 1200 is considered small where Im at. 2500-3000 is more the norm. Ill take the bigger schools.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 7:08:39 GMT -6
800 is large?
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 20, 2012 7:09:24 GMT -6
meh, it's kind of a tomato, mater; potato, tater type question.
From a football stand point, there really is not difference between the two other than maybe the size of your roster, and maybe the number of coaches you have on staff. For every descriptor you can have about a school (urban, red neck, ghetto, preppy, etc....), there can be examples found in both large and small schools.
I worked at a school with a total student population of a little over 200, but we always had 40+ boys on the team. I have coached against some of the bigger schools (2000+) around here and they struggle to get that many on the roster. Size of the school doesn't determine the football culture of the school.
Now if you're talking about the culture of living there as a coach/teacher/resident, whoa nellie now that is a discussion.
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Post by coachbw on Sept 20, 2012 7:13:18 GMT -6
I have been at schools ranging from 240-2300. I would say that about 500 would be ideal for me. I don't like struggling at the smaller schools to even have a TE, DB, QB etc. At the larger schools I didn't like that I would see parents and not know who they were and wouldn't have a personal connection with all of the kids. I would say that around 500 kids would be my ideal.
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Post by blb on Sept 20, 2012 7:17:09 GMT -6
Agree with woodall.
I have coached at school that was over 1700. School I'm at now has 421.
Generally speaking I would rather coach at the larger school because of resources and competing at the highest level.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 20, 2012 8:17:47 GMT -6
I've coached at a school with a 9-12 enrollment of around 120 students. I now coach at a school with 2000 students (in kansas thats REALLY big). There might be a sweet spot somewhere in the middle of those numbers, but I'll take the big school over the tiny school any day. You can build a community feel at a big school, with a little effort you know everyone you WANT/NEED to know (and lets face it, jack@ss dad/mom/uncle/etc will be a jack@ss whether you know them or not), the resources available are night and day (even more so in the classroom than on the field, but we have top of the line stuff for both). I always thought I was a small town guy (grew up in one). Then I taught in a really small town... then went to the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't know if I could ever go back.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 20, 2012 9:46:29 GMT -6
After coming from a school which, regardless of its size, had issues with support within the school and community, I would without a doubt try to get into a school that has overwhelming support for the football program.
I honestly believe that a district that supports their football program will have the academic and athletic culture that I want to be a part of. Football starts off the school year and if it goes positively then the student body as a whole has pride in what they do and where they do it so everything ends up better. Obviously I'm biased but that's what I truly believe.
As for resources, I think it's a mistake to believe that just because a school is small that you'll have limited access to resources or that because a school is large that you have greater access to resources. I think access to resources has more to do with the financial situation of the district and the commitment of the administration to the success of the football program.
If they want to win, you'll get what you need. If they make excuses then you could still win but when the resources start to set other programs apart from your program, you are no longer competing on a level playing field.
I also want to be at a small school because I enjoy being involved as an actual coach rather than a figure head who has a bunch of assistants who take care of the daily coaching responsibilities.
I don't mean I want to micro manage but I certainly don't want to be a head coach who makes the call on 4th and 1. I enjoy coaching individual and group rills as well as making sure schemes are sound in our team segments.
So the best answer for me is:
B) A small school that represents one, maybe two, small towns, everyone knows everyone, and the community support is intense.
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Post by blb on Sept 20, 2012 10:10:50 GMT -6
As for resources, I think it's a mistake to believe that just because a school is small that you'll have limited access to resources or that because a school is large that you have greater access to resources. I think access to resources has more to do with the financial situation of the district and the commitment of the administration to the success of the football program. As OP said it "is a very general question." And so not subject to specific situations because there are always exceptions. Just as individual coaches will have different preferences based on their personalities and tastes. One resource small schools cannot replicate regardless of financial situation is the number of potential players in a larger school.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Sept 20, 2012 10:22:59 GMT -6
I'd take 1000-1500 person school. Enough kids to field a consistent, solid team every year and have separate JV and Varsity teams (or Freshman and Varsity). Small enough to know everyone and have the town shut down for you. Probably could still bring in some money too. My current situation is 300 people, 20 if I'm lucky dressed out, and lose one kid and it's 30 min on the computer re-doing the depth chart. One kid doesn't pay the athletic fee and we don't eat for a week.
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Post by rhscoachbh on Sept 20, 2012 22:01:39 GMT -6
My dream job would be as a coordinator at a 3a school in Texas where there is great support and resources and it's a one horse town.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 21, 2012 6:35:15 GMT -6
One resource small schools cannot replicate regardless of financial situation is the number of potential players in a larger school. If a positive football culture exists in the school and community, the numbers will be there regardless of the size of the school. I know people can site several large schools that should have absolutely no issues with numbers for football. But if a positive football culture doesn't exist, those large schools, like some small schools, will struggle to keep their numbers up and programs alive.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 21, 2012 6:49:06 GMT -6
I prefer smaller schools, as long as football numbers are big enough to effectively run a practice. Small-town athletics are awesome in this state because the communities are small and tight-nit. Football, basketball and volleyball games are the major source of entertainment in these towns. There are incredible rivalries between the schools; it can be intense. Plus, you only need a couple of guys on the staff to make it work. You don't need to hire and manage a ton of coaches: just find two reliable cats and go to work. I agree. It's nice to be in a small town where the entertainment is the high school games. As for staff, I think you're absolutely right. Another challenge of having those supposed greater numbers at a large school, a head coach would need more reliable assistant coaches. In a positive football culture, you'd be able to find them. If that culture doesn't exist, that head coach will have difficulty finding committed, competent coaches. If those kids don't get coached and they don't win because their coaches aren't real great, you will lose games and you could lose those kids as a result. Now the asset of large numbers has become a huge limitation on the long term goals of the program. I know it's crazy to think but having a lot of kids is something you most certainly need to be prepared to take on.
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Post by fantom on Sept 21, 2012 8:40:10 GMT -6
I prefer smaller schools, as long as football numbers are big enough to effectively run a practice. Small-town athletics are awesome in this state because the communities are small and tight-nit. Football, basketball and volleyball games are the major source of entertainment in these towns. There are incredible rivalries between the schools; it can be intense. Plus, you only need a couple of guys on the staff to make it work. You don't need to hire and manage a ton of coaches: just find two reliable cats and go to work. The other side of the coin is finding those two cats in a small town.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 21, 2012 8:48:31 GMT -6
I still don't see how size of the school matters except in 2 cases: -extremely low, where there just aren't enough kids period - size differential IE you HAVE to compete against school 3x to 4x your size
If I have 1500 kids in my school and my competition has 1500+-, then we are on a level playing field; and then the other factors kick in (see previous post). Same would be true if the numbers were 500, 1000, 2000, etc...
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Post by davishfc on Sept 21, 2012 12:06:52 GMT -6
I prefer smaller schools, as long as football numbers are big enough to effectively run a practice. Small-town athletics are awesome in this state because the communities are small and tight-nit. Football, basketball and volleyball games are the major source of entertainment in these towns. There are incredible rivalries between the schools; it can be intense. Plus, you only need a couple of guys on the staff to make it work. You don't need to hire and manage a ton of coaches: just find two reliable cats and go to work. The other side of the coin is finding those two cats in a small town. Shouldn't be an issue in a football town. There is actually more screening that must take place to sift through the wanna be's and find the true football coaches who understand what it's about.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 21, 2012 12:07:21 GMT -6
If I have 1500 kids in my school and my competition has 1500+-, then we are on a level playing field; and then the other factors kick in (see previous post). Same would be true if the numbers were 500, 1000, 2000, etc... Yes...it's all relative.
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Post by fantom on Sept 21, 2012 12:17:27 GMT -6
The other side of the coin is finding those two cats in a small town. Shouldn't be an issue in a football town. There is actually more screening that must take place to sift through the wanna be's and find the true football coaches who understand what it's about. Yet I can think of several threads in which coaches in small towns ask what they can do to find assistants.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 22, 2012 10:38:59 GMT -6
Shouldn't be an issue in a football town. There is actually more screening that must take place to sift through the wanna be's and find the true football coaches who understand what it's about. Yet I can think of several threads in which coaches in small towns ask what they can do to find assistants. Like I said...shouldn't be an issue in a football town. Obviously not a football town. Finding a staff will be one of numerous challenges a coach will face in a town that doesn't support football.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 22, 2012 12:17:31 GMT -6
I still don't see how size of the school matters except in 2 cases: -extremely low, where there just aren't enough kids period - size differential IE you HAVE to compete against school 3x to 4x your size If I have 1500 kids in my school and my competition has 1500+-, then we are on a level playing field; and then the other factors kick in (see previous post). Same would be true if the numbers were 500, 1000, 2000, etc... If you are talking about wins/lossess I would agree. All relative If you are talking about the job tasks/responsibilities/environment/conditions...I would say there is a pretty big difference, both in "football related" things, and other off the field situations.
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Post by fantom on Sept 22, 2012 12:18:27 GMT -6
Yet I can think of several threads in which coaches in small towns ask what they can do to find assistants. Like I said...shouldn't be an issue in a football town. Obviously not a football town. Finding a staff will be one of numerous challenges a coach will face in a town that doesn't support football. The fact that people like football doesn't mean that they can coach it.
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Post by davishfc on Sept 22, 2012 14:08:34 GMT -6
Like I said...shouldn't be an issue in a football town. Obviously not a football town. Finding a staff will be one of numerous challenges a coach will face in a town that doesn't support football. The fact that people like football doesn't mean that they can coach it. I didn't say you wouldn't have to coach the coaches. The point was the people would be there to step up. If they're committed then you can work with them to get them to where they need to be. Plus, how many coaches do you need to be successful at a small school?
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Post by fantom on Sept 22, 2012 14:32:57 GMT -6
Look I don't want to argue about it. I've never coached in a small town so all I know about it is what I read here. In this forum I've read a number of threads in which guys from small schools asking how to find coaches.
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Post by blb on Sept 22, 2012 15:45:25 GMT -6
If you're lucky enough to coach in a "Football town" with a "positive football culture," then it just goes back to OP's "general question" - large school, or small?
That just comes down to personal preference.
And, if you're not in one of those - it won't matter much.
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Post by dubber on Sept 22, 2012 20:55:01 GMT -6
I played and coach small school football.
I love our program.
We have enough good kids who are decently talented and work hard, who have played tackle football since 3rd grade. We have a rural set up and have really been afforded the luxury of spreading out (2 full size practice fields). We can host 16 teams in our 7-on-7 tourney. Our weightroom and coaches office rivals most schools 2-3 times bigger than us. Our head coach and the school board/admin are best friends. He will never be fired.
We've only had 2 season below .500 since 1993.
We are the hottest ticket in "town".
And most places are NOT like that......
The bottom line for me, is administrative support. If you do not have that, you cannot overcome it. Everything else can be overcame, imho.
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wvcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@coach_wellman]
Posts: 288
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Post by wvcoach on Sept 22, 2012 21:40:10 GMT -6
I see a lot of surprise at the fact that I consider 800 students a large population.
I'm in West Virginia. We only have around 120 football-playing high schools, and my alma mater is the second largest AA school (out of three classes) at 436 kids. You guys must be in a vastly different world from mine!
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 22, 2012 22:17:04 GMT -6
I see a lot of surprise at the fact that I consider 800 students a large population. I'm in West Virginia. We only have around 120 football-playing high schools, and my alma mater is the second largest AA school (out of three classes) at 436 kids. You guys must be in a vastly different world from mine! Sent from my iPhone using ProBoards Just an example of how different things are regarding high school and youth football across the country.
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