kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 18, 2012 7:05:58 GMT -6
I want my players to be animals on the field, but as soon as the whistle blows, I want them to flip that switch off and turn into respectable gentlemen. I never served, but I imagine that I want my players to be like a soldier - killers one minute, but the next minute they're representing their country at a charity event.
How do I get this?
How rowdy are your practices? How do you tune in the aggression? What do you do to make it happen? Then how do you switch it off and keep players from killing each other?
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Post by coachklee on Sept 18, 2012 7:15:03 GMT -6
In my opinion, just like soldiers, we as coaches want disciplined and highly trained football players.
Guys that play "nasty" on the football field ussually do so because they are flat out more physically developed than their opponent because they did more work in the weight room.
After the weight room, the "nasty" player is always in the correct position using the correct technique almost all the time allowing them to dominate or further dominate their opponent.
Lastly, as opposed to "nasty" I would argue that you should be preaching EFFORT. Things like pancake blocks happen because one guy has the physical ability and mindset that I'm going to kick another guys arse until the whistle blows.
So in my opinion, you want to talk to your guys about focusing on DISCIPLINE, EFFORT and PRIDE in everything that they do on and off the field.
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Post by wolfden12 on Sept 18, 2012 7:17:46 GMT -6
We have tried to develop the same type of attitude this year taking over a program.
We begin to develop this in our off-season program. We have high demands for our players and work hard to put them into situations where they are competing. We stress their is a winner and a loser and what do you have to do to get to that spot. Sacrifice, effort, determination and other intangibles we want them to understand as we transition to the summer. They are accountable for everything they do. We want to stress high motors, coach and play with enthusiasm, and be aware that if you don't bring it, your out.
We have several players who want to play college football. Our benefit of having several coaches play at the D1 level helps us develop that mantra of what it takes to get there, stay there, and be successful there (at the next level).
Put kids in a position to be successful!
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Post by airman on Sept 18, 2012 8:24:53 GMT -6
@ Kyle, this is a psychologically impossible concept. If you understand how the military psychologically and socialization of killing you would know military veterans have a higher rate of spousal abuse, higher suicide rate, higher rate of health problems over their life times and high rates of substance abuse and psychological problems. One you are socialized to kill it never leaves you. Once you have killed it never leaves you.
once you have been trained to be violent it is unrealistic to expect you will be an angel.
Football and soldiering have only one thing in common, you have to line up correctly. all the rest is BS.
I struggle with anxiety as a result of service to this country. i have eliminated people.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 18, 2012 8:38:27 GMT -6
@ Kyle, this is a psychologically impossible concept. If you understand how the military psychologically and socialization of killing you would know military veterans have a higher rate of spousal abuse, higher suicide rate, higher rate of health problems over their life times and high rates of substance abuse and psychological problems. One you are socialized to kill it never leaves you. Once you have killed it never leaves you. once you have been trained to be violent it is unrealistic to expect you will be an angel. Football and soldiering have only one thing in common, you have to line up correctly. all the rest is BS. I struggle with anxiety as a result of service to this country. i have eliminated people. Bad analogy then. I didn't know. I don't want murders... If there are few similarities between football and war, then it sounds like that's a good thing. I still want players who are nasty before the whistle and nice after the whistle. Do you think you can achieve that? |
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Post by airman on Sept 18, 2012 8:52:46 GMT -6
@ Kyle, this is a psychologically impossible concept. If you understand how the military psychologically and socialization of killing you would know military veterans have a higher rate of spousal abuse, higher suicide rate, higher rate of health problems over their life times and high rates of substance abuse and psychological problems. One you are socialized to kill it never leaves you. Once you have killed it never leaves you. once you have been trained to be violent it is unrealistic to expect you will be an angel. Football and soldiering have only one thing in common, you have to line up correctly. all the rest is BS. I struggle with anxiety as a result of service to this country. i have eliminated people. Bad analogy then. I didn't know. I don't want murders... If there are few similarities between football and war, then it sounds like that's a good thing. I still want players who are nasty before the whistle and nice after the whistle. Do you think you can achieve that? If you have seen combat( i mean really seen it up close and personal) you are never the same as you were before. It is why vets do not talk very openly because if they did you would think they were sick people. you become a very calloused person as a result of war. we should never want war because there will be a generation of young men and women who will need psychological treatment and to be very frank, this country disposes its vets as if they were cheap whores. I would use a different word then nasty. I want players who are physical but play with in the rules. for example james harrison is a nasty player but he spears people on almost ever tackle. if james harrison was not playing football by his own admission he would have been a career criminal |
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Post by airman on Sept 18, 2012 8:57:22 GMT -6
every person should read the book "On Killing: The Psychological coast of learning to kill in war and society" by Dave Grossman. you will find out it is unnatural to kill.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 18, 2012 9:04:53 GMT -6
we talk about the concept of a German Shepard attack dog..if a dog can learn to to turn his switch on and off then so can you...We never really use war terms...we also talk about the concept of toughness on and off the field...being tough off the field equates to like being a parent..banging nails in the 95 degree weather..thats tough...changing your sorry a$$ diaper when you are sick..that's tough.....they are kids..some will, some won't, some can't
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Post by dubber on Sept 18, 2012 12:19:29 GMT -6
To the original poster's question:
You want to have confident athletes. Confidence in their alignment, responsibility, and technique will lead to aggressive play. As mentioned before, the weight room deals in confidence too.
Whether a kid is a choir boy or a psychopath is NOT within your control.
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Post by wingtol on Sept 18, 2012 12:52:13 GMT -6
First... I do not think you can make your players like that. I have had kids like you posted about, the nicest most mild mannered polite kids ever. But when they got on the field they tried to knock who ever had the ball out cold every time they tackled. Had kids who didn't turn it off when they got off the field. It was just who they were. Everybody is different in life, some people are fight to get back up as quick as possible when life knocks them down and some people curl up and don't even try.
Also do not mistake "nasty" for physical. Big difference if you ask me. A nasty guy is someone I picture stomping on an opponents head when their helmet is off on the ground. The most physical guy I ever coached/was around was very mild mannered off the field. You wouldn't even know he was around off the field, but on it everyone knew where he was and made sure to run away from him. He went on to be NFL defensive player of the year. Not nasty at all.
Second...not to sound like I am attacking a specific person but I HATE when football is equated to war. It's not even .00000001% close to a war. Drives me nuts to hear that kind of stuff. Football is a GAME. Should not be mentioned in any context to war. I know guys who were in the s**t during Iraq/Afgh. They are not the same now. I know a lot of guys who played football and they haven't changed much.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 18, 2012 14:43:17 GMT -6
First... I do not think you can make your players like that. Really? That's shocking. Coaching has really taught me that people are a result of their environment. I think that adage, "Attitude reflects leadership," is true. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 18, 2012 16:38:13 GMT -6
who cares what the kids are like off the field? Practice like you play. Enforce tempo and play/practice at a high tempo (no walking, no loafs). You can't do that unless you organize, plan, and SCRIPT EVERYTHING If kids walk or linger after the play, everyone on the field suffers. There needs to be accountability for the speed YOU play football. brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/establishing-tempo-intensity-on-defense.html |
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Post by mattyg2787 on Sept 18, 2012 21:06:51 GMT -6
Disciplined is a much better word. I'm not a mean or even angry guy, but I rate myself as an olinemen. However, we played a team last week who were nasty. They grabbing face masks and putting on cheap shots wherever they could. it didn't help them. We just came out and did our thing, laid down some big blocks and huge tackles and walked away (except for me punching an end in the throat)
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using proboards
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 18, 2012 22:06:04 GMT -6
who cares what the kids are like off the field? I do. Regardless, I want the switch to be the whistle. |
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Post by airman on Sept 19, 2012 0:13:47 GMT -6
who cares what the kids are like off the field? I do. Regardless, I want the switch to be the whistle. This was a point of contention with former Norte Dame running back Allen Pinkett. He said ND needs to have 8-10 nasty guys who you know are going to get in trouble with the law but are dominate players on the field, especially on defense. I do agree with Kyle you want decent, law abiding citizens. troubled football players make trouble for the team. That said the dr jeckell/mr hyde theory just does not exist in mentally stable people. now people with psychosis it is a different story. I think you want to coach them to play hard tell the whistle blows but the chippy stuff afterwards has no place in the game. the military has learned that soldiers need time to decompress and that is why now they lock you up on a secluded base for 30 days before they let you come back into society. It gives you time to calm down. In vietnam, they would put a draftee on a plane and less than a week later he would be drinking brews with his buds. The failures of vietnam are why there will never be another draft. nor will there ever be massive amounts of pows. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 19, 2012 4:00:46 GMT -6
who cares what the kids are like off the field? I do. Regardless, I want the switch to be the whistle. The point is, do.you really think you're gonna get kids to become Eddie Haskell for you in their own time just because you spent a few months with them? The point is to get them to.mature as people. I wouldnt waste energy thinking you're gonna teach them manners and ettiquette and like what I like. You'll have to start much younger than HS. Good luck. The point would be developing them to be competitive and playing the game at a certain level. None of that really has anything to do.with an emotional us vs them mentality. It will be about them competing against themselves, collectively. Thats pretty.much done in the weight room. In the off season |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 7:45:52 GMT -6
This was a point of contention with former Norte Dame running back Allen Pinkett. He said ND needs to have 8-10 nasty guys who you know are going to get in trouble with the law but are dominate players on the field, especially on defense. I do agree with Kyle you want decent, law abiding citizens. troubled football players make trouble for the team. That said the dr jeckell/mr hyde theory just does not exist in mentally stable people. now people with psychosis it is a different story. I think you want to coach them to play hard tell the whistle blows but the chippy stuff afterwards has no place in the game. the military has learned that soldiers need time to decompress and that is why now they lock you up on a secluded base for 30 days before they let you come back into society. It gives you time to calm down. In vietnam, they would put a draftee on a plane and less than a week later he would be drinking brews with his buds. The failures of vietnam are why there will never be another draft. nor will there ever be massive amounts of pows. So what type of culture do you try to build? What emphasis do you put on aggression? |
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Post by wingtol on Sept 19, 2012 8:04:26 GMT -6
First... I do not think you can make your players like that. Really? That's shocking. Coaching has really taught me that people are a result of their environment. I think that adage, "Attitude reflects leadership," is true. Well I guess you answered you own question....you want "nasty" guys on the field, be a massive d**khead to them in practice. If attitude reflects leadership then you need to be an a-hole as a coach. I think the choice of words used may not be what you are looking for. We pride ourselves as a hard hitting physical football team. We demand they practice that way. We demand they lift hard in the off season. We try and instill the mindset that we will be the most physical team out there. We also work fundamentals all the time and make sure our guys aren't confused on the field. That can make a huge difference of how physical they play. We also do a ton of character building/education. Try and make them as well rounded as we can. Not guys who flip a switch. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 8:23:55 GMT -6
We pride ourselves as a hard hitting physical football team. We demand they practice that way. We demand they lift hard in the off season. We try and instill the mindset that we will be the most physical team out there. We also work fundamentals all the time and make sure our guys aren't confused on the field. That can make a huge difference of how physical they play. We also do a ton of character building/education. Try and make them as well rounded as we can. Not guys who flip a switch. What do you do to instill that mindset? How do you demand these things from your players? What do you do as far as character building/education? |
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Post by airman on Sept 19, 2012 10:07:49 GMT -6
This was a point of contention with former Norte Dame running back Allen Pinkett. He said ND needs to have 8-10 nasty guys who you know are going to get in trouble with the law but are dominate players on the field, especially on defense. I do agree with Kyle you want decent, law abiding citizens. Troubled football players make trouble for the team. That said the dr jeckell/mr hyde theory just does not exist in mentally stable people. now people with psychosis it is a different story. I think you want to coach them to play hard tell the whistle blows but the chippy stuff afterwards has no place in the game. the military has learned that soldiers need time to decompress and that is why now they lock you up on a secluded base for 30 days before they let you come back into society. It gives you time to calm down. In vietnam, they would put a draftee on a plane and less than a week later he would be drinking brews with his buds. The failures of vietnam are why there will never be another draft. nor will there ever be massive amounts of pows. So what type of culture do you try to build? What emphasis do you put on aggression? 1. A culture of personal accountability 2. I place no emphasis on aggression. I what focused players not angry players. Aggression in a manifestation of frustration and leads to anger. I want calm thinkers playing because when you lose your focus you lose your ability to think correctly. What most people do not understand is when you heart rate gets around 80bpm you move from your logical brain into what is called your emotional brain. When you move into the emotional brain you say and do things which you would normally not do. There are also other physical changes. your rate of respiration decreases which means your body and brain do not receive the correct amount of blood. your muscles become tense which restricts movement. IF you practice martial arts or a fighting are you would understand that breathing or breath plays a major factor in who wins. Also, martial arts are less about fighting and more about conquering yourself. As they say in where I train. Anyone can get themselves into fight. It takes great skill to not get into a fight or to walk away. I think the first thing you need to create physical players it to remove the fear that holds them back. Often it is fear of injury. also, I think you have to remove competition against another person and make it competition against ones self. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 11:43:12 GMT -6
So what type of culture do you try to build? What emphasis do you put on aggression? 1. A culture of personal accountability 2. I place no emphasis on aggression. I what focused players not angry players. Aggression in a manifestation of frustration and leads to anger. I want calm thinkers playing because when you lose your focus you lose your ability to think correctly. What most people do not understand is when you heart rate gets around 80bpm you move from your logical brain into what is called your emotional brain. When you move into the emotional brain you say and do things which you would normally not do. There are also other physical changes. your rate of respiration decreases which means your body and brain do not receive the correct amount of blood. your muscles become tense which restricts movement. IF you practice martial arts or a fighting are you would understand that breathing or breath plays a major factor in who wins. Also, martial arts are less about fighting and more about conquering yourself. As they say in where I train. Anyone can get themselves into fight. It takes great skill to not get into a fight or to walk away. I think the first thing you need to create physical players it to remove the fear that holds them back. Often it is fear of injury. also, I think you have to remove competition against another person and make it competition against ones self. Your players' heart rates don't go over 80 bpm  ? |
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Post by coachklee on Sept 19, 2012 12:48:47 GMT -6
So what type of culture do you try to build? What emphasis do you put on aggression? 1. A culture of personal accountability 2. I place no emphasis on aggression. I what focused players not angry players. Aggression in a manifestation of frustration and leads to anger. I want calm thinkers playing because when you lose your focus you lose your ability to think correctly. What most people do not understand is when you heart rate gets around 80bpm you move from your logical brain into what is called your emotional brain. When you move into the emotional brain you say and do things which you would normally not do. There are also other physical changes. your rate of respiration decreases which means your body and brain do not receive the correct amount of blood. your muscles become tense which restricts movement. IF you practice martial arts or a fighting are you would understand that breathing or breath plays a major factor in who wins. Also, martial arts are less about fighting and more about conquering yourself. As they say in where I train. Anyone can get themselves into fight. It takes great skill to not get into a fight or to walk away. I think the first thing you need to create physical players it to remove the fear that holds them back. Often it is fear of injury. also, I think you have to remove competition against another person and make it competition against ones self. If we were sitting around at a clinic right now my response would be "Airman, that is some deep {censored}". |
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Post by airman on Sept 19, 2012 14:27:34 GMT -6
1. A culture of personal accountability 2. I place no emphasis on aggression. I what focused players not angry players. Aggression in a manifestation of frustration and leads to anger. I want calm thinkers playing because when you lose your focus you lose your ability to think correctly. What most people do not understand is when you heart rate gets around 80bpm you move from your logical brain into what is called your emotional brain. When you move into the emotional brain you say and do things which you would normally not do. There are also other physical changes. your rate of respiration decreases which means your body and brain do not receive the correct amount of blood. your muscles become tense which restricts movement. IF you practice martial arts or a fighting are you would understand that breathing or breath plays a major factor in who wins. Also, martial arts are less about fighting and more about conquering yourself. As they say in where I train. Anyone can get themselves into fight. It takes great skill to not get into a fight or to walk away. I think the first thing you need to create physical players it to remove the fear that holds them back. Often it is fear of injury. also, I think you have to remove competition against another person and make it competition against ones self. If we were sitting around at a clinic right now my response would be "Airman, that is some deep {censored}". I am a disciple of frosty westerning the great Pac Lutheran U coach. He preached love for you opponents in a physical game. Plus he had red car (compete against others and beat other to feel better about yourself) vs blue car (compete against yourself to be your best self. ) theory. |
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Post by paulfrantz on Sept 20, 2012 10:00:38 GMT -6
I coach my players to be physical, not nasty. As some have already said to me the term nasty = thug. I would put my players physicality up against any ones nasty. nasty = penalties and/or ejection. Physical means we will hit your nasty guy just as hard as he hits us, but legally, so we never lose yardage because of it. Maybe I'm in the minority here,but I disagree with the notion that it doesn't matter how they are off the field. My son, one of the best players I've coached would damn near take your head off on the field, and then pray with you after the game. As a coach, my mission is as much about helping to raise these boys into good men, fathers, and husbands as it is to teach them the game, and I have always had success in both. Not to offend, but to me anyone that fails the players development off the field on the way to a championship is a failure as a coach.
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