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Post by tentboy on Aug 6, 2007 16:04:16 GMT -6
How do you guys maximize constant movement and repetition with a roster around 100 and 9 coaches. I know during team time is can be tough to get everyone involved but what has worked for some of you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2007 16:13:03 GMT -6
We have 2-3 scout groups when we're on defense. I make the scout cards and script, get them to each group, and then we get them involved.
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Post by airman on Aug 6, 2007 16:22:48 GMT -6
How do you guys maximize constant movement and repetition with a roster around 100 and 9 coaches. I know during team time is can be tough to get everyone involved but what has worked for some of you? the st john's university method. 1st o vs 1st d 2nd o vs 2nd d 3rd o vs 3rd d 4th o vs 4th d 2 coach 2 thru 4 3 coaches 1vs1 first o runs scout plays for first d and then you flip. first d runs scout plays vs 1st o. this way your players get the speed down. you also limit contact.
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Post by fbdoc on Aug 6, 2007 19:36:50 GMT -6
When I was at the college (NAIA) level we did two huddles going in opposite directions.
#1 O vs #2 D OC (QB), OL, + Defensive GA's and #1 D vs #2 O DC (LB), DB + Offensive GA's
These groups would go 12-15 plays then the 3's and 4's would go for 8 plays, then repeat with 1's and 2's.
Kept maximum number of players involved and used coaches efficiently.
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Post by mnpasso on Aug 7, 2007 15:53:53 GMT -6
Airman,
Out of curiosity, is the SJU method you reference something from the book, heard about, or have seen in person?
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Post by airman on Aug 7, 2007 16:45:19 GMT -6
Airman, Out of curiosity, is the SJU method you reference something from the book, heard about, or have seen in person? i actually talked to his son, who is the oc or dc I cannot remember and he went over it with me. I hear a lot of people have troubles getting information from them. I also played for a college coach who went and visited them. he did not use the method but he told us about it. the late nick hyder, who coached valdosta high school all those years did some thing similar. he did what he called 2 groups, which as 1 vs 2 on o and1 v 2 on defense. then one group which was 1 vs 1 , 2v2 and so on. his practice where very long, around 4 hrs. valdosta is a high pressure job being they are all time in wins. i worked at a school where we were 100% platoon football and had 8 coaches. I we did some thing similar but we did like 1 vs 2 and not much contact ecept on goalline. the big thing we did was with special teams i think. we took the defense and made them in charge of the punt game and we took the offense and made them the kicking game. the oline/dline did not take part in special teams so they have a 40 minute period to work on oline/dline skills. the qb worked on drops and exchanges. ol/dl could work one on one pass drops for 10 minutes. this we got from the pros. we divided the coaches up into 3 with punt, 2 with kicking, 1 qb, oline coach and dline coach. punt consisted of 20 minutes punt/punt return 10 minute punt block 10 mintues punt fake kicking game consisted of 25 minutes ko/ko return 15 min pat
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Post by mnpasso on Aug 7, 2007 20:09:06 GMT -6
I have been to two practices. First, John is unnerved the entire time thinking I am a spy, a scout, something! Preface all this with the facts that you have 180-220 kids with no JV schedule. For the offense, the 1st O and the 2nd O run plays against the 3rd O. After a while, the 2nd and 3rd O will switch, but the first O will run every other play.
While they don't wear practice pants at all, and they don't tackle people to the ground, don't be fooled that they don't "hit" in practice. To quote an assistant, "Not everything in the book is true." As for the 4th O on down, they are so far away that it is symbolic of where they are on the depth chart. One of John's non-published philosophies is; "If you tell a player to do something and he doesn't, then he probably never will." In other words, you just fell to about 7th on the depth chart. You can have that philosophy with that many players. It is a popular theory that, their JV, if they had one, could beat half the teams in the conference. And yes they actually have cut kids for locker space reasons, etc. contradictory to the "No's" and the book.
John did most of the coaching of all the offensive positions. Jimmy, his son was the only other coach there. Jimmy, the OC, has a much more prominent role these days I will say.
The defense has 2 huddles running plays against it. One is running scout team plays specific to that week. One is running plays of whoever is the team they need to beat, in the conference, the region, wherever.
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Post by airman on Aug 8, 2007 15:29:47 GMT -6
what book are you referring to? I did not know there even was a book. I do know they hit a lot with out pads on.
you are right about the number of kids, especially the ones way down there. some kids just want to be on a team.
st. johns is the perfect storm. a all boys schools so it has no title 9 issues, the large numbers of players. however saint john as they like to call him has a ugly side. he plays in a conference which is not that football oriented. heck a good high school team could be macalaster and carelton. John does have a lot of power. he and the miac got redshirting banned in D3 cause he could not beat the wisconsin state schools when it came to playoffs. he lost a few times and that was the start of how unfair it was for a miac school to go up against a wiac school. how the wiac actually promoted redshirting, even though the wiac has a confrence limit on players set at 105 to 110 players.
I think john is a great coach in some ways but when I saw him take 3 time outs within the last minute of the game to get a scrub a td, when it was already 63 to 7 I sort of lost respect for him.
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Post by PSS on Aug 8, 2007 17:49:03 GMT -6
How do you guys maximize constant movement and repetition with a roster around 100 and 9 coaches. I know during team time is can be tough to get everyone involved but what has worked for some of you? Coach, I know that this can be a tough situation. Suggestion: Team OffenseRun 2 huddles (offense) at the same time, back to back. Now your coaches are going from to the other. Just alternate plays between the 2 huddles. This allows 44 players involved at one time. Team Defense Same thing but now have 2 huddles vs your #1 defense and 1 huddle vs #2 defense. Or if it is Varsity, JV, and Freshmen; then 2 JV huddles vs varsity defense, freshmen vs freshmen. I know this sounds confusing but write it out on paper, work back to back, that way coaches don't have to move long distances to coach mass numbers. Just an idea.
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Post by groundchuck on Aug 8, 2007 20:08:37 GMT -6
We were just talking about this subject too. We don;t start until Monday but for the 1st 3 days there is no contact. We will be running 3 huddles of offense rapid fire each one running the same exact play. The HC calls it once, all the QBs must be listening and then they go back to thier respective huddles and call the play. So instantly we involve 33 players from our offense. The D is usually over working pass skelly during this time using the same concept.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Aug 8, 2007 20:37:38 GMT -6
I hate to hijack the thread, but I do want to make a few points about SJU.
The MIAC is not the WIAC or OAC in terms of overall depth, but the league as a whole is no pushover. Macalester is no longer in the league and Carleton isn't the same Carleton they were 5 years ago. Last year they upset Bethel who was a National playoff team. Any way you slice it, winning the MIAC championship is not an easy thing to do.
I can not confirm or deny whether John and the MIAC were integral in the elimination of reshirting in D3, but having no redshirting throughout D3 levels the playing field for all so I don't think anyone can assert that it was a bad thing.
Also FWIW, SJU was 3-2 vs the WIAC in national playoff games from 91-01.
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Post by airman on Aug 9, 2007 10:37:12 GMT -6
i think d3 schools should be allowed to redshirt players if they so choose to do so. It was the miac contension that a public school league like the WIAC at an advantage because of costs of education. it is not the wiac fault they are a d3 league.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Aug 9, 2007 18:31:06 GMT -6
The WIAC is at an advantage because the average cost of tuition between the WIAC and MIAC is miles apart. Four years at $30,000 a pop at a MIAC school vs 4 years at a WIAC school for $12-15,000 is a big difference. It does create a competitive disadvantage any way you look at it.
My assertion is that all of D3 either should or should not be allowed to redshirt. Having redshirting in one conference and not another doesn't make much sense. Especially when they are battling each other for region championships.
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Post by airman on Aug 11, 2007 14:00:05 GMT -6
I can see your point. however it is a choice to attend the private schools. i know a kid who is going to saint olaf and the grant in aid given to him brings the cost of st. oalf down to very little out of pocket money. most public school financial aid it loans. grant money is big at private schools, I should know, for 2 years I went to concordia st paul and they had money to burn.
I can see your point on redshirting but many private school confrences have jv programs unlike public d3 schools which do not.
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Post by stud17 on Aug 11, 2007 15:12:54 GMT -6
since 1999, the MIAC has the third best winning percentage in D3 football playoffs. teams like st. johns, st. olaf, and bethel are always among the top teams in the nation. give the MIAC some credit. you never know what can happen on a saturday afternoon in the MIAC. almost every team comes out to play on saturdays in the MIAC.
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