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Post by fantom on Jun 16, 2012 18:30:35 GMT -6
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 16, 2012 18:40:54 GMT -6
Yeah, I have to be honest and say that I don't trust you guys to do club football properly. I've seen what you did to club basketball.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 16, 2012 18:45:12 GMT -6
The insane thing is who can afford it? I looked online and they showed what it costs for a tennis player, assuming you are on a payment plan it is $54,870 for Tennis training and boarding, $1,720 for full year insurance and required extras, and $18,735 for High School tuition and then additional costs for any "upgrades you want" and a required 4.75% sport/boarding insurance and 2.42% tuition insurance if you are on the payment plan.
How are they going to field a football team at anywhere near that price and more troubling, what parent is going to pay that for a HIGH SCHOOL football program. That is above and beyond most colleges so you could send your kid to the local school, give him a personal trainer and year round position coach and if your kid doesn't get a scholarship you can pay for their college off the savings.
Not to get in to the ridiculous amount of pressure and social issues that would arise from putting your kid in this scenario, I just don't see how this model can work for a team sport. Something like golf or tennis where a kid can go pro, maybe, but a sport like football, even with a crazy amount of high school scholarships I just don't see it.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 16, 2012 18:47:21 GMT -6
In addition, who's going to pay that to be a back up? Talk about parent headaches haha
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Post by 19delta on Jun 16, 2012 18:58:02 GMT -6
I'm not sure what IMG is.
Is it an actual school, like with classes and teachers and stuff? Or is it just for training kids to be better at football?
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Post by fantom on Jun 16, 2012 19:07:37 GMT -6
The insane thing is who can afford it? I looked online and they showed what it costs for a tennis player, assuming you are on a payment plan it is $54,870 for Tennis training and boarding, $1,720 for full year insurance and required extras, and $18,735 for High School tuition and then additional costs for any "upgrades you want" and a required 4.75% sport/boarding insurance and 2.42% tuition insurance if you are on the payment plan. How are they going to field a football team at anywhere near that price and more troubling, what parent is going to pay that for a HIGH SCHOOL football program. That is above and beyond most colleges so you could send your kid to the local school, give him a personal trainer and year round position coach and if your kid doesn't get a scholarship you can pay for their college off the savings. Not to get in to the ridiculous amount of pressure and social issues that would arise from putting your kid in this scenario, I just don't see how this model can work for a team sport. Something like golf or tennis where a kid can go pro, maybe, but a sport like football, even with a crazy amount of high school scholarships I just don't see it. What worries me is the potential for serious corruption here. Street agents, providing loans and bankrolling players for a piece of the action, are a worry. So is financial aid from IMG while steering them to certain schools. |
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 16, 2012 19:23:50 GMT -6
I'm not sure what IMG is. Is it an actual school, like with classes and teachers and stuff? Or is it just for training kids to be better at football? Feel free to correct me, but I think their main deal has been stuff like prepping NFL prospects for the combine and the like, although I'm sure they do some work with HS prospects for the right price. I remember hearing about a basketball 'club' like this that was essentially a 12 man, independent study HS with kids from like, 9 different states that was basically an all-star AAU team that got somehow 'legitimized'. I feel like a sanctioning organization (state level or NFHS or whatever) needs to step in and just say, "No ****ing way this is going to be allowed..." This is a REALLY big moment in football, to be honest. |
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Post by dsqa on Jun 16, 2012 19:32:03 GMT -6
I know a little about this situation...they have their own accredited private school on campus...they currently have a 700+ student school.
FHSAA just approved through the State legislature that Member schools can play non-member schools in-season, so this will help them get games with schools that will play them.
They have hired a compliance person to make sure everything is above board...
Keep in mind that there are boarding schools in this country that cost the same amount of money as IMG each year...I know of a number of them.
This is simply that...a boarding school that will emphasize its football opportunity...
We have a very successful program in Florida that has been like this for years...The Bolles School
Kinda neutral on the thing, but its not as out there as it seems, it just isn't affordable for the vast majority of athletes...
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 16, 2012 19:45:28 GMT -6
This is simply that...a boarding school that will emphasize its football opportunity... Are you British? No one else has that sort of mastery of the understatement. |
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Post by tog on Jun 16, 2012 21:32:50 GMT -6
all of the state organizations need to kill this right now!
we do not want football ending up like AAU basketball hell
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 16, 2012 21:33:10 GMT -6
I'm going back to the money, just can't imagine someone paying that kind of money and their kid being a backup. Different tax brackets I suppose....
As far as IMG, to my understanding, they do the prep combine work but their real claim to fame in the prep world has been in the "country club sports" like tennis. I could be wrong but that is the only thing I know them from...and they get a shout out in Jerry Maguire!
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Post by dsqa on Jun 16, 2012 21:53:47 GMT -6
No, I'm not British, but I have had enough experience on the business side of this game that nothing surprises me anymore...truth is I knew this was coming 5 years ago when IMG sold their agent business to CAA and got into NFL player development...
...the understatement is more likely a function of the beginning stages of acute euphoric "whateverness" brought on by prolonged exposure to the numbing effects of overpromising, underdelivering football training entities (not IMG yet, that remains to be seen) that breeds disillusioned parents, discouraged athletes and disrespected coaches that we have to rehabilitate as best we can in our program to believe that camps and camp coaches aren't the devil incarnate and don't exist to ruin kids futures.
I know some of the key IMG guys, I've visited with Chris Weinke on his plan, and to IMG's credit, at least they aren't hiding what they are or are seeking to be...
you want to talk troubling, let's talk overpriced, empty suit recruiting services, post High school graduate school athlete racketeering, and behind the scenes auctioning of elite athletes to colleges through the highest booster bidders, and the exploitation of rising talent through the flooding of the recruiting market with non-commitable college scholarship offers being laid on athletes that are worth no more than a recruiting letter that says you're on a list...
can't understate those train wrecks that no one seems too bothered by....IMG will have 60-75 kids that can MAYBE do this, and realistically, the level they will be able to compete at will be suspect for a while, simply because they can't offer some of the things that a real High school offers in the athlete experience...so in the big picture...
Also, this is an extremely expensive undertaking that only an IMG could bankroll because of all the other infrastructure they have in place...
It's another expensive private school starting football...If they ever go into State series play, they will be watched like a hawk by FHSAA...and according to someone I know at IMG, they intend to hire a compliance officer to manage that relationship to avoid any bad press...they can't afford that kind of brand damage.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 16, 2012 21:55:23 GMT -6
So, according to Coach Slack, this is basically a private school that is going to field a football team?
I guess I don't see the problem. Provided that they follow all of the state association rules, especially those pertaining to academic eligibility and recruiting, I don't think this means the sky is falling.
The other thing is, no one has to play them. If people are upset about the ramifications of this, then don't schedule them.
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Post by carookie on Jun 16, 2012 21:58:14 GMT -6
Football won't ever have an AAU type organization (thankfully). Basketball, these kids can play an additional 60, 80, etc games outside of their HS season. Nobody is foolish enough to risk that with a game as violent as football. The biggest risk, and it is already underway, is an AAU type org. for passing leagues.
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Post by dsqa on Jun 16, 2012 22:00:13 GMT -6
That's exactly right 19delta... They can't allow their business to be exposed to any negativity in the press that would affect their core success in other sports...they are under the gun from headquarters not to let this backfire... It would devastate their cash cows in the other sports and that won't be allowed to happen. Football is late to the IMG party and they won't let it disrupt their prior success...no way.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 16, 2012 23:15:26 GMT -6
So... You're saying that we won't need these folks?  |
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Post by fballcoachg on Jun 17, 2012 7:45:34 GMT -6
when IMG sold their agent business to CAA and got into NFL player development... at least they aren't hiding what they are or are seeking to be...you want to talk troubling, let's talk overpriced, empty suit recruiting services, post High school graduate school athlete racketeering, and behind the scenes auctioning of elite athletes to colleges through the highest booster bidders, and the exploitation of rising talent through the flooding of the recruiting market with non-commitable college scholarship offers being laid on athletes that are worth no more than a recruiting letter that says you're on a list... can't understate those train wrecks that no one seems too bothered by.... I wasn't aware that they are no longer agents so that does make this situation better. I have no qualms with a school being athletically driven, there is one here in Tennessee that explicitly stated when they opened that they were going to have the best football program in the state and that was their main goal, the academics went hand in hand so it wasn't just a sports factory (strong emphasis, absolutely). I think you would be hard pressed to find coaches on this sight that don't have a problem with all those scenarios you talked about that are becoming AAU/street agentesque. How more coaches don't speak out against these is beyond me but it doesn't matter what we say, mom and dad get that letter that their kid has been "invited" to a camp at a discount rate then they are going or if there is a guy out there who says he can get you recruited it only takes a few people to buy in to the hype. |
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Post by jknucks12 on Jun 17, 2012 10:00:45 GMT -6
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Post by k on Jun 17, 2012 13:41:01 GMT -6
So a for profit school with a focus on football is going to cost thousands per year more than Choate/Exeter/Andover?
Insane.
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Post by mattyg2787 on Jun 17, 2012 14:46:14 GMT -6
As other guys have said, can you imagine the fights that will start when little Jimmy isn't starting?
And things like this kind of remind me of what someone was telling me about Russian athletic schools. Kids start in them at age 6 and get trained in every event. Then at a certain age the staff decide that little Petrov is best suited for x sport which they then spend all their time training for
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using ProBoards
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Post by optionoline on Jun 17, 2012 15:07:08 GMT -6
There's a private school up here for hockey that costs in the $40k per year range, parents drool over the prospect of little Johnny or Jenny getting invited to go there. It has enough national success that it allows them to tell the parents if they don't like the decisions by the coaches on playing time, go somewhere else. It's a pipeline to the NHL. I can't see how it couldn't happen in football.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 17, 2012 16:58:11 GMT -6
I've never heard of it. Is it really a "pipeline?" I have serious doubts. Even Alabama is only sending maybe a third of their kids to the pros, and they get their pick of the litter nationally from all HS players.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jun 17, 2012 19:14:15 GMT -6
right..Too much money on the line for IMG to F it up....Like DQSA says, its a private school school..heck, I looked to see if thay had any teacher openings..as far as schools playing them, I imagine them playing a regional schedule..Valdosta, St Thomas Aquinas, maybe Darlington's team..maybe a national game against Long beach Poly financed by ESPN
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2012 19:25:07 GMT -6
right..Too much money on the line for IMG to F it up....Like DQSA says, its a private school school..heck, I looked to see if thay had any teacher openings..as far as schools playing them, I imagine them playing a regional schedule..Valdosta, St Thomas Aquinas, maybe Darlington's team..maybe a national game against Long beach Poly financed by ESPN If they have openings let me know, I'll come w/you!!! Duece |
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Post by optionoline on Jun 17, 2012 20:25:18 GMT -6
I've never heard of it. Is it really a "pipeline?" I have serious doubts. Even Alabama is only sending maybe a third of their kids to the pros, and they get their pick of the litter nationally from all HS players. Not sure if this was a response to my post about the hockey school, but just in case, the school is Shattuck St. Mary's in fairbault mn. Current NHL players who are Shattuck Alumni; Parise, Johnson, Okposo, Conklin, Crosby, Stepan, Toews.... A bunch more. Been covered by ESPN, google it, tons of stories on it. Football is a different animal, but you never know... |
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Post by coachbuck on Jun 17, 2012 20:56:28 GMT -6
I was at the UCLA skills camp a couple of weeks ago. I was sitting in a lawn chair watching my son and a group of guys (whom I wont mention) where scouting for their 7 on 7 clubs. They where also talking about a well known H.S. in LA that has banned outside 7 on 7 tournaments. Kids where leaving that H.S. and these guys where happy about it. I hate the way these kids are being preyed upon and used.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 17, 2012 21:18:10 GMT -6
I've never heard of it. Is it really a "pipeline?" I have serious doubts. Even Alabama is only sending maybe a third of their kids to the pros, and they get their pick of the litter nationally from all HS players. Not sure if this was a response to my post about the hockey school, but just in case, the school is Shattuck St. Mary's in fairbault mn. Current NHL players who are Shattuck Alumni; Parise, Johnson, Okposo, Conklin, Crosby, Stepan, Toews.... A bunch more. Been covered by ESPN, google it, tons of stories on it. Football is a different animal, but you never know... That's both impressive and crazy, but a lot of those kids would be getting charged $50,000 a year. Toews and Crosby are middle-class kids, enough not to get financial aid but not enough to pay that kind of money. Something doesn't add up. Is this school just buying talent? |
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Post by coach4life on Jun 18, 2012 5:45:59 GMT -6
No they are filling a demand in the market - there are enough adults out there who don't understand the number of high school athletes that make it as a pro in their sport is extremely limited, but have enough money to afford the "opportunity" for their son (or daughter) to attend a school to prepare them for their future professional sport.
Nothing against IMG as I know nothing about them or their motivations. I'm personally of the opinion that a kid should play every sport he's good enough to play in high school, a well rounded athlete is going to be a better athlete. if you're that good as an athlete the next level in a single sport for college will find you. I'd wager that a very high percentage of athletes in professional sports were the great athletes in multiple sports in high school, including some of the 300+ pound lineman and the PGA guys.
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Post by coachschro on Jun 18, 2012 12:29:42 GMT -6
This is nothing new, there are basketball academies all over the country already doing this. Oak Hill for example. They all cost a fortune and recruit kids from all over the country to play high school for them...
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Post by irishdog on Jun 18, 2012 14:57:33 GMT -6
If I'm the HC at one of those "elite" football programs there's no way in he-- I'm scheduling IMG. Most of IMG's roster will be filled with the "elite" players from most of those programs anyway! IF I lost a kid (or kids) to IMG I'd be an idiot to do any favors for them!
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