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Post by lochness on Feb 9, 2006 6:24:19 GMT -6
Coaches,
I have a question I've been curious about for a long time? How many of you have "stuck to" your systems throughout the years?
I ask this because being active on the internet gives me the impression that coaches seem very willing and eager to install offenses and defenses that are "the latest rage" rather than staying with a philosophy and a system they believe in. Is this a true perception, or is it just the nature of the internet beast?
I for one have run the same system for over a decade. Prior to that I played in it. We evolve our system every year, and we add / take away / emphasize differently depending upon our personnel and so forth. We may change some formaitons or modify a base blocking scheme, but I don't go from "DW" to "pro I" to "gun spread option" in the course of 3 or 4 years.
Has anyone out here been running the same system their whole careers (I emphasize SYSTEM, not plays or formations...but general rules, terminology, philosophy)?
Same is true of defense. I've seen so many teams in our state (usually the weaker ones) change their defense year in and year out. You know the guys "YEAH...let's try that 30 stack! That's the key to getting a winning season this year! It's hot right now!"
I think the greatest compliment our coaching staff ever received was when the HC of our rival said of us in the paper, "they're not going to be an easy first-round out. Their coaches work very hard and they have stuck to their systems." I just wonder whether anyone else places value on having some consistency, or if people are really just running with the tides...
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 9, 2006 7:16:20 GMT -6
I look at most of the programs that won state titles in MN this year. They are all programs that have stuck with a system for as long as I can remember. If you go back and watch tapes or look at playbooks from these teams a few years back you would see them doing most of the same things.
I believe you run the same base stuff year after year then add in things to accentuate the base stuff. On defense I think it might be a little less imprortant b/c so much of defense is shedding, tackling, and covering. But I agree if you stick with something say the 5-3, and your MLB has been playing there since jr high he is going to (hopefully) be very comfortable there and play better because he is SURE of what he has to do. Confidence breeds quickness.
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Post by lochness on Feb 9, 2006 7:47:19 GMT -6
Agreed!
Don't get me wrong...I fully advocate making appropriate adjustments based on personnel and opponent base. I am just amazed at the amount of people who seem interested in making a whole-sale change.
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Post by tog on Feb 9, 2006 8:02:04 GMT -6
We are going through a wholesale changeover this year. The stuff we had been running simply would not work with what we have. We are keeping as much of the old system though to make the transition smoother.
Like, we are not chaning from 24 zone as a play name to 336 or 337 at 9 wing t style talk, or play 43 for the flexbone people like in the college flexbone playbooks floating around out there.
We are just going to call it 34 veer, 30 midline. USe the same style tags and motions, and formation adjustments we always have, just new tags and a couple of different type motions for the slot guys.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 9, 2006 8:08:06 GMT -6
That is the key. Keep all terminology the same and techniques etc. Then you can make those tweaks from year to year without making wholesale changes.
Tog--I know what you are talking about with te wholesale changes but you are being smart by keeping as much of the old system in place...a foundation to build from.
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Post by spreadattack on Feb 9, 2006 8:13:08 GMT -6
I agree with this thread, but there can be a correlation vs. causation problem when you just look out at title winners and lesser teams. Of course the teams that win year in and year out don't change--they're winning! The teams that want to start winning or beat their division rivals are the ones trying new things. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. There's a good and bad side to "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
I mean, if a team had like two winning seasons in 10 years I wouldn't expect them to "Stick to their system."
Anyway, that's just a tangent though. I do agree that too much change year in and year out hurts you. The old saying is true that every time you change your system you make your seniors freshman again (And your coaches neophytes instead of veterans).
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Post by saintrad on Feb 9, 2006 8:27:01 GMT -6
coming from my perpsective, i have only changed systems/schemes once... i originally worked for a coach (my first 2 yrs) that was a Wishbone coach, when he retired the new coach was a freshman on Tiger Ellison's first run-n-shoot teams, so we ran the run-n-shoot. So basically, I have been a spread offensive guy for the last 12 yrs. I do adapt my scheme to the talent, more drop back passing this year and probably more of a traditional Redskins style one-back this next season just due to personnel. I am also open-minded enough to know that i dont know everything about football and my ego is small enough to go look at different ways to give my kids an advantage. My QB this year isnt the most accurate of throwers (yet) but he makes great decisions and runs a 4.45, so maybe more zone option Utah-style may be appropriate for him. But that's the fun of coaching, taking your bse philosophy and adapting it to your kids year in and year out.
Just think of all the kids you may not have out for football becuase they dont like the style of football you play. Then who is doing the disservice?
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211 
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Post by smd on Feb 9, 2006 9:02:00 GMT -6
basic defensive scheme since 1990 with some new tweaks and twists.
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champyun
Junior Member
Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well.
Posts: 252
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Post by champyun on Feb 9, 2006 9:29:41 GMT -6
I have used the same system for quite some time (O & D), but with the talent we have, and the district we've been aligned with, it's almost a cinch we'll have to change both.
I agree with the idea that you need to keep the terminology to help with the transition. I also believe it helps to "sell" the changes to your players.
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Post by jhanawa on Feb 9, 2006 12:24:55 GMT -6
We have run the same system, by that I mean terminology and base grouping of plays every year. Where we probably differ from others and what makes us a hybrid of sorts is that our system has a mixture of offenses to form our unique "system". If you looked through our playbook it would probably seem to you that we are running too much and therefore must be a discombobulated mess, "running plays to run plays rather than running a system" would be a first thought I'm sure. But what we do is start every year with the same base structure and add on with auxilary plays as the kids grasp the concepts. Some years we never get past running just the very basics, others we can run the entire book, cover to cover. Our kids ability to grasp and execute ultimately determine what we will and won't do. Our year in/year out base would consist of:
Run Game 1. Zone 2. Ct Trey 3. Toss 4. Power
Pass Game 1. 3 step quick game slant/fade/hitch/out 2. Boot off Ct. Trey 3. Boot of Zone
Auxilary to this might be some or all of the below.
Gun same as above
Jets and various motions mixed into above
Option, Mid, ISV,OSV,speed (we don't option unless we CAN run true/ read option)
multiple screens
Draw
Sprintout
5-7 Step read patterns (mesh/smash to you non digit dudes)
Philosophy wise, we want to formation and motion people to death and be flexible in our attack, we want to stretch the defense horizontally by formation and vertically with the passing game, we want to isolate defenders and prevent team tackling.
Thats about it as far as shrimp goes........
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Post by knighter on Feb 9, 2006 12:34:13 GMT -6
DW til death.
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coachg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 119
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Post by coachg on Feb 9, 2006 13:46:07 GMT -6
Im all for keeping the same system but sometime a change is necessary if you want to get an advantage on your opponents. I know one school in our state went to the air raid about 7 or 8 yrs ago and have won 6 state championships with it. One reason it helped them so much is at that time no one in the state ran the air raid. now 6 state championships later evryone in the stat runs the air raid attack. Sometimes change is good
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NCcoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by NCcoach on Feb 9, 2006 16:35:46 GMT -6
I think if you have to change systems because it does not compliment your talent any particular year, it was not a good offense or defense to use in the first place.
The schemes (both offensive and defensive) you use should be flexible and varied enough to adjust to and accent your strengths each year. If you can't do this with what you use, you either don't understand your scheme or it is not a scheme that should be used where you can't recruit your talent.
It sounds like most coaches here adjust their schemes and add a few wrinkles each year. I would be willing to bet most long term successful programs do this.
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Post by outlawzheadcoach on Feb 9, 2006 19:17:46 GMT -6
One of the keys to "keeping the same system" is players becoming familiar with it and getting better execution of the plays and system. If you are changing from one year to the next your teams will have problems with their ability to run the plays effectively. I say stick with it and Increase you chances of execution and increase your teams performance.
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Post by gmccown on Feb 9, 2006 21:48:35 GMT -6
I agree DW till death...or unemployment...whichever comes first!
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Post by knighter on Feb 10, 2006 6:50:23 GMT -6
you'll never be unemployed running dw...if you are call me and i will hire you, and vice versa...lol
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Post by tye2021 on Feb 10, 2006 11:30:18 GMT -6
Changing systems sucks!!!!! I played football all four years of high school. And every year was a different system. And I'm not exaggerating! The one thing I learned from that is the coaches don't always know HOW to run the system. One year we ran the Wing T and the only thing we ran the option with the FB and Wing. HB was primarily a blocking back and absolutely NONE of the misdirection stuff. No traps, counters or reverse. Not even a simple sweep!
If you are going to make a complete change it helps if you have someone on the staff that knows what it takes to run the offense/defense. At least attend some clinics and talk to coaches that know the system.
I do beleive that adjustments to your sytem is absoulutely neccessary year to year due to players ability and intelligence level.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 10, 2006 11:42:50 GMT -6
This upcoming fall will be my third year as OC. I am just an extension of my head coach, so I run what we(he) decide as being best fit (not necessarily what I feel is best).
Year 1- Multiple (Broken I, 1 back, 3/4 wide packages ZONE team)- we took it hard on the chin as new coaches and had a horrible year.
Year 2- Had 0 receivers and even worse # of QBs so we adjusted to running Jet/Rocket. Had much better success offensively, and seem to have found our identity yet we struggled to play D and special teams.
Sometimes struggled due to lack of passing game- HC was totally against going gun, even in long yd situations.
Year 3- Sticking with Jet/Rocket- will incorporate some gun jets and run game, bubble screens, bunch passing, etc. Hopefully we will find it easier to throw out of the gun.
The Saga continues...
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 10, 2006 13:10:35 GMT -6
I have coached for some guys who change their back adn hole numbering and entire philosophies from year to year...and i guess they want their feeder program to do the same...heres my two cents...it takes a few years to really know and learn the ins and outs of any system...ie, triple option, spread, dw, wing-t or pro I...you need to run it for a while to really master it and understand what you can do with it adn what others will try to do to attack you...by running the 46 for so long , i have gotten pretty good at knowing what to practice...same with the dw...stick with it and you learn what to fear.
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