dtrain
Probationary Member
Posts: 8
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Post by dtrain on Sept 13, 2007 10:43:35 GMT -6
Do you think that more kids would come out for football and stay with the programs if more coaches two platooned? For example a couple years ago, P-ville had 3 D1 players in their backfield. Beatty, QB at Baylor, Marlon Williams LB at Tech and Cobb, FB at Texas. Cobb played a little defense, but Williams started both ways. I have seen teams come up like Converse Judson 5A, San Marcos and Liberty Hill that went to this system. Before Bush and his two platooning no one would play at SM and they didn't beat anyone. 2 platooning lets 22-24 kids start and allows 44-45 kids to play. Factor in the kids that just want to be in the program, and you could/should have at least 60 players on a 4/5A, just based on enrollments alone. the more kids play, the better they get. The kid that just started playing as a 9th grader, gets stronger and faster and is a big contributer by his 11/12th grade year. I can't understand these coaches that don't do this? Liberty Hill runs a ball controll offense that doesn't need 225 plus pound linemen, and they play an exciting brand of defense with an 8 man front. The offense complements the defense and keeps the kids fresh by controlling the ball and wearing down opponents. IMO.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 13, 2007 10:51:34 GMT -6
I have 30 kids on my team. Defensively, I cam comfortable putting about 10 of those kids on the field...so I'm still trying to dig up an 11th defender.
Offensively, I use a lot of different players at skill positions, so a lot of subbing, so about 15 different kids play on offense in a game.
But, I have 3 kids that go both ways. Period. I have no backups for them on either side of the ball that could even do a 1/2 way decent job.
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Post by knight9299 on Sept 13, 2007 10:51:51 GMT -6
Do you think that more kids would come out for football and stay with the programs if more coaches two platooned? For example a couple years ago, P-ville had 3 D1 players in their backfield. Beatty, QB at Baylor, Marlon Williams LB at Tech and Cobb, FB at Texas. Cobb played a little defense, but Williams started both ways. I have seen teams come up like Converse Judson 5A, San Marcos and Liberty Hill that went to this system. Before Bush and his two platooning no one would play at SM and they didn't beat anyone. 2 platooning lets 22-24 kids start and allows 44-45 kids to play. Factor in the kids that just want to be in the program, and you could/should have at least 60 players on a 4/5A, just based on enrollments alone. the more kids play, the better they get. The kid that just started playing as a 9th grader, gets stronger and faster and is a big contributer by his 11/12th grade year. I can't understand these coaches that don't do this? Liberty Hill runs a ball controll offense that doesn't need 225 plus pound linemen, and they play an exciting brand of defense with an 8 man front. The offense complements the defense and keeps the kids fresh by controlling the ball and wearing down opponents. IMO. My brother and I had this same conversation this spring. If you could walk in to a school and say we're going to start 22 different players. You'd have to get better numbers? Now take that one way player that would be a #2 in the iron man philosophy, the increased reps/extra coaching he would get from the platoon would have to make him a better player, right? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2007 11:17:56 GMT -6
That is the theory, but you may not have 22 legitimate kids right when you take over a program. What will draw kids out initially, at least IMO, is winning games. Then, when numbers get better, go to a platoon system. One opinion I've heard is if you aren't good enough or have enough players to platoon immediately, start with the lineman and it kinda grows from there.
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 13, 2007 11:24:24 GMT -6
thats what i have done with my O and D line. The teo are sperate, now my couple best backup O linemen are my 2 DTs. And I rotate some of my O linemen in on D, but no more than 3 plays in a row. I wanna keep my guys fresh. My best DT is also my best RT so i chose to use him on O mostly. I sacrifice some on D but i feel i make up for it by having him always at 100% on offense
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Post by airman on Sept 13, 2007 11:52:24 GMT -6
I am a whole harted believer in two platoon football. what people do not get is the philosophy. every one has to play two positions on one side of the ball. say your rt goes down, maybe the rg who is a starter moves to tackle because your backup rg is better then the backup rt. your starting fullback might backup at tailback as well cause your backup fb is better then your backup tailback.
what people also fail to understand is they have to only focus on one thing being a offense or defensive player. plus it improves your oline and special teams.
where I worked oline and dline did not play on special teams. we had a 45 minute special teams period every day. during that time the oline and dline worked on there techniques and then they worked no one on one pass sets which was a benefit for both sides of the ball. the oline worked pass sets , the dline perfected pass rushes. they got 45 minutes of extra practive time daily. the qb did not play on special teams as well. the qb and centers got 50 c/qb exchanges daily. the qb got to work on footwork and drops.
the wr,rb,db,lber played on special teams both starters and non starters.
infact we had two sets of special teams going at once. one one file we had punt vs punt return. all defensive players where on this. punt is the first defensive play in our way of thinking and punt return was were our dbs could be return people and lbers were quick blockers.
kickoff and kickoff return was the offense. we did these at the same time on a different field.
the great thing about this is a lot of kids can play as they get a lot of daily reps.
a average player can become good, a good player can become great and a great player can become all world.
the thing you have to be willing to do is first recognize your best players might not be on offense. best to put your best players on defense when you platoon. if you can stop the other offense, you can then get your offense a chance.
now as you get better over the years, you get better athletes developed through off season programs.
our practice went like this
15 min warmup
15 min conditioning defense doing pursuit drill for conditioning offense running perfect plays on air.
45 min special teams.
field 1 punt vs punt return, punt block and fake punt 3 coach
field 2 kick off vs kick return, field goal/fake field goal 2 coaches
oline and dline oline coach, dline coach
qbs qb coach
o and d indy pass skills and coverage skills.
one on one this is great cause we played press man on the corners or loose man so we got to work this vs the first team wr every day.
7 on 7
7 on 7 blitz period.
during 7 on 7 oline and de line are working pass sets and pass rush. can never have too much of this is you are going to pass the ball.
more indy period run skills o and d.
front 7 vs 7 then 7 vs 9.
skills are working blocking and pap routes.
team period we ran like this
20 min first team d was the scout team for 1st team O. 2nd d for 2and o and if you hvae a 3rd team you do the smae.
next 20 minutes you flip it, o serves as scout team for d. this way you get to work against game speed.
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Post by gacoach on Sept 13, 2007 12:13:08 GMT -6
thats what i have done with my O and D line. The teo are sperate, now my couple best backup O linemen are my 2 DTs. And I rotate some of my O linemen in on D, but no more than 3 plays in a row. I wanna keep my guys fresh. My best DT is also my best RT so i chose to use him on O mostly. I sacrifice some on D but i feel i make up for it by having him always at 100% on offense This is essentially what we do. I coach the OL and it's great being able to get all 6 together when the defense is on the field. Before, it was hit and miss, but more miss than hit, on talking to them. We are also looking to try to rotate but last the week first OL was fresh all game so we didn't need to. It has been a blessing. |
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Post by lochness on Sept 13, 2007 15:12:07 GMT -6
I'd start with finding 22 athletes.
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Post by phantom on Sept 13, 2007 16:59:54 GMT -6
Do you think that more kids would come out for football and stay with the programs if more coaches two platooned? For example a couple years ago, P-ville had 3 D1 players in their backfield. Beatty, QB at Baylor, Marlon Williams LB at Tech and Cobb, FB at Texas. Cobb played a little defense, but Williams started both ways. I have seen teams come up like Converse Judson 5A, San Marcos and Liberty Hill that went to this system. Before Bush and his two platooning no one would play at SM and they didn't beat anyone. 2 platooning lets 22-24 kids start and allows 44-45 kids to play. Factor in the kids that just want to be in the program, and you could/should have at least 60 players on a 4/5A, just based on enrollments alone. the more kids play, the better they get. The kid that just started playing as a 9th grader, gets stronger and faster and is a big contributer by his 11/12th grade year. I can't understand these coaches that don't do this? Liberty Hill runs a ball controll offense that doesn't need 225 plus pound linemen, and they play an exciting brand of defense with an 8 man front. The offense complements the defense and keeps the kids fresh by controlling the ball and wearing down opponents. IMO. First, a quick reminder that this isn't a Texas board. There are coaches on here from all over the world so references to P-ville and such are lost on most of us. We're one of the programs who do not platoon. We want the best players on the field. We rotate the two-way guys to get them a break on the side of the ball where they're least vital. It works for us. |
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Post by eickst on Sept 13, 2007 18:09:29 GMT -6
I don't have enough players, let alone athletes, to platoon. I can't even run my offense against an entire defense.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Sept 13, 2007 20:19:51 GMT -6
You've also got to have the staff to do this, correct? How is the practice organized? Some of you mentioned that your back-up offensive linemen are your starting defensive linemen. So do they get the same amount of practice on both sides?
If you only go one way with your players, is that for the entire program? I can't see value in having a 9th grader play one way. My center on JV two years ago never took a snap on defense because he was awful at it, but he practiced every day. Now he's a two-way starter as a senior. I wouldn't want to have sold that kid out of defense as a sophomore.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Sept 14, 2007 10:34:29 GMT -6
I dont think it comes down to 22 athletes because lets face it in a large majority of HS out there you are not going to find that.
It comes down to making the kids buy into the system and understand what you are trying to do. It also comes down to getting those kids that arent your sure fire starters to believe and work their butts so they can validate themselves as starters.
I was part of a very successful two platoon system and we were far from having 22 athletes out on the field. However, we had a staff that knew where to put kids and the kids understood and bought into the system. Instead of having 4 or 5 positions up for grabs we had 18 or 20 positions up for grabs every year. That gets the kid that is borderline willing to play to get out there. We had kids taht came out which had no clue what they could do. With a little coaching and confidence they were very productive parts of the team.
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2007 10:55:24 GMT -6
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