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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 8, 2008 9:34:29 GMT -6
coachbig---I honestly don't think he was worried about that part. He just wanted to be one of the "cool signing day guys" I know it sounds harsh, but seeing the kid..physically, he is not a specimen. he looked soft. The reports on the kid from the various meat market camps he went to was that he was not a physical or agressive player , and he was weak. Could this incident be the "American Idol" effect sliding into sports...where the participants don't value hard work, and don't recognize how the hard work of others separates them from the pack? (ie, countless people saying "football/singing is 'my life' and yet they don't ever pay the price-weightroom/vocal coaches-training) What could have been going through his head? Is this a sign of things to come? Perhaps not false recruiting, (because obviously this was a very short windowed ruse) BUT will more and more people of all walks of life seek the limelight rather than the accomplishment? Are we developing a society where people could actually ENJOY this situation--unmerited attention and celebration? What is the root of this? Too much Positive reinforcement, leading to people expecting rewards for simply doing what was asked? A great spin on this hoax...briefly showing the deep rooted paranoia that the limelight of recruiting brings to college HC's (Ault of Nevada) AS WELL as some great examples of how donkey message boarders feast on the euphoria of recruiting/NFL draft. sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3236039 |
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Post by ajreaper on Feb 8, 2008 10:35:17 GMT -6
I've got a kid or two being looked at by some schools and I'm constantly delivering them mail that gets sent here in care of myself for them. I've also had 5-6 coaches stop in this spring asking about these players- my take is this kid was not recruited at all by anyone so no letters or drop in's by coaches so I'd say HC is not the sharpest stick in the wood pile.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 8, 2008 10:47:09 GMT -6
aj--after reading the espn.com story (link i posted) it shows that the kid had basically started telling the paper/media he was being recruited by CAL/OREGON etc. back during the season...
I agree with you the HC's radar should have been up if for no other reason than he had been a JC coach years ago, so he should have an INKLING of the recruiting process. That said, I still maintain that I have coached players with parents who..if we would have started to unravel this...THEY would have maintained that WE were holding the kid back/costing him a scholarship/targeting their kid etc etc.
That said, I WOULD LOVE to see the Senate get involved in something IMPORTANT...LIKE THIS kind of foolishness (and bringing an end to the scouts.com/rivals .com pimping/rating etc. ) instead of worrying about NFL films.
THIS is an ISSUE. It has gotten worse EVERY YEAR.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 8, 2008 11:06:21 GMT -6
Apparently someone impersonated a "middle man" between the schools and the kid. sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=3233483If this is true, I really would hold the HC accountable for A) not sniffing this out, but more so B) NOT EDUCATING THE PARENTS on the recruiting process. All that said though, I have encountered more than one kid whose FAMILY was so delusional over the kids ability/future that they would have been easy targets for such a scam, AND I honestly belive that had we tried to "help" them avoid this, we would have been told we were screwing the kid over ] Honestly, I think that the kid is going to get caught in another pack of lies. I doubt any third party was actually involved, he's trying to look like less of an idiot. The fact that helied about speaking "numerous times" with Tedford makes him completely un-credible. |
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 8, 2008 12:09:49 GMT -6
Apparently someone impersonated a "middle man" between the schools and the kid. sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=3233483If this is true, I really would hold the HC accountable for A) not sniffing this out, but more so B) NOT EDUCATING THE PARENTS on the recruiting process. All that said though, I have encountered more than one kid whose FAMILY was so delusional over the kids ability/future that they would have been easy targets for such a scam, AND I honestly belive that had we tried to "help" them avoid this, we would have been told we were screwing the kid over ] Honestly, I think that the kid is going to get caught in another pack of lies. I doubt any third party was actually involved, he's trying to look like less of an idiot. The fact that helied about speaking "numerous times" with Tedford makes him completely un-credible. I may be mistaken but i think it's already been established that the kid lied about the whole thing and admitted there was no middle man. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 8, 2008 12:15:14 GMT -6
] Honestly, I think that the kid is going to get caught in another pack of lies. I doubt any third party was actually involved, he's trying to look like less of an idiot. The fact that helied about speaking "numerous times" with Tedford makes him completely un-credible. I may be mistaken but i think it's already been established that the kid lied about the whole thing and admitted there was no middle man. You are correct ---It has already been established that the boy has been lying about being recruited for several months,and it just built and built. Signing day is now one of the worst days of the year in our country's development. It now embodies everything we as a country profess to be against. it CERTAINLY embodies everything athletics professes to be against, and it puts ignorance on the forefront. People claiming "recruiting national championships" Teams signing 30+ student athletes, KNOWING and ANTICIPATING non qualifiers. Wouldn't it be a great place if STUDENT athletes were student athletes. |
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Post by wildcat on Feb 8, 2008 18:31:25 GMT -6
I wonder if any of this helped the kid get laid at all.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 8, 2008 19:38:29 GMT -6
I wonder if any of this helped the kid get laid at all. That would be the best part of the story. If he did the whole thing to impress a girl. |
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Post by khalfie on Feb 8, 2008 20:33:40 GMT -6
I wonder if any of this helped the kid get laid at all. Hill Larry Us! What I don't understand is... If a kid is willing to go to these lengths for simply the appearance... Than why not the weight room? How about some clinics? The Kid was 6'4" right? Passed the sight test right away... half way descent talent and he could have gotten a legitimate look. No sympathy for the kid... if he worked half as hard to be a football player, instead of just a star recruit... he might have become a star recruit! |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 8, 2008 22:08:45 GMT -6
khalfie....it doesn't take a great deal of work to tell people "yeah, i am being recruited"
It MIGHT take a great deal of work for us as a sports community to cram the recruiting genie back in the bottle on this thing.
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Post by cmow5 on Feb 8, 2008 22:40:45 GMT -6
I believe in one of the stories the HC said he was always in the weight room. Maybe he did bust his but and still realized he was not good enough and that is when it all started.
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Post by wildcat on Feb 9, 2008 22:20:51 GMT -6
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2008 22:50:02 GMT -6
so he's an intelligent Psychopath
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 9, 2008 23:01:07 GMT -6
I am pretty sure he didn't do this with the underlying thought process that ANOTHER school would say "HEY, look, lets get on this kid..."
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Post by wildcat on Feb 10, 2008 5:57:17 GMT -6
I am pretty sure he didn't do this with the underlying thought process that ANOTHER school would say "HEY, look, lets get on this kid..." I'm sure he didn't, either. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 12:08:54 GMT -6
UMM...yeah, that would be the definition of "soft" to me.
NOW i REALLY think eyes need to be turned to the HC...I mean could he POSSIBLY be this inept? I would really question if I wanted that guy to be leading other young boys into manhood if what appears on the surface is what really happened. Would love to have more details on this one.
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Post by wildcat on Feb 10, 2008 12:26:05 GMT -6
I think the people who REALLY look foolish are the reporters who attended the "press conference" and wrote articles touting this kid as "One of Northern Nevada's Top Prep Players".
Not ONE of these guys thought about calling Cal or Oregon? Not ONE of these guys had the foresight to go to one of the approximately 8,673,145 recruiting sites and do some research?
The kid has some brass balls, no doubt, but it appears to me that there are a lot of LAZY people in Northern Nevada who didn't do their homework...
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 12:44:59 GMT -6
I think the people who REALLY look foolish are the reporters who attended the "press conference" and wrote articles touting this kid as "One of Northern Nevada's Top Prep Players". Not ONE of these guys thought about calling Cal or Oregon? Not ONE of these guys had the foresight to go to one of the approximately 8,673,145 recruiting sites and do some research? The kid has some brass balls, no doubt, but it appears to me that there are a lot of LAZY people in Northern Nevada who didn't do their homework... Well, NCAA rules prevent the schools from discussing athletes...So reporters don't call and check up because they know they can't get any comments (OTHER than possible to confirm that they indeed are recruiting him..BUT..who would have thought to check and make sure you aren't getting hoaxed....") I have to disagree with you here on both accounts. It doesn't take brass to do this, it takes brass to tell people "Hey, I am not being recruited, my body is not strong enough or fast enough". Also, I don't think the media is "lazy" for not going into this situation thinking "WE MAY BE GETTING DUPED" |
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Post by wildcat on Feb 10, 2008 13:07:41 GMT -6
Also, I don't think the media is "lazy" for not going into this situation thinking "WE MAY BE GETTING DUPED" GOOD reporters check and re-check sources. None of these guys did even a cursory background check on the story. I'm not talking about Watergate here...Hart told the lie. However, people who are trained and paid to write stories for a living should have been able to uncover the deceit relatively easily. |
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Post by phantom on Feb 10, 2008 13:37:42 GMT -6
UMM...yeah, that would be the definition of "soft" to me. NOW i REALLY think eyes need to be turned to the HC...I mean could he POSSIBLY be this inept? I would really question if I wanted that guy to be leading other young boys into manhood if what appears on the surface is what really happened. Would love to have more details on this one. Exactly. I can understand a coach from a small, country school who's never been involved in the recruiting process being fooled. JUCO coaching, though, is all about placing kids at 4-year schools so it requires an understanding of the recruiting process. In this case you can't turn around without running into a red flag. The kid took no recruiting trips. The coach never talked to a Cal coach. The coach never saw a formal offer and, if Cal never heard of him, that means that the coach probably never received any correspondence from them at all. Then, according to the stories that I've read, the coach was the one drumming up publicity for the presser. How could a guy not take a minute to call Cal and find out what was up? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 13:52:40 GMT -6
Also, I don't think the media is "lazy" for not going into this situation thinking "WE MAY BE GETTING DUPED" However, people who are trained and paid to write stories for a living should have been able to uncover the deceit relatively easily. And they did.. extremely quickly, once they were aware that there was a need to. Sorry, but when a H.S hosts a press conference to announce that one of their students is going to sign a letter of intent...and I know that I will not be able to get any comments from the college coach...NOT much homework I can do. |
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Post by phantom on Feb 10, 2008 13:58:43 GMT -6
Also, I don't think the media is "lazy" for not going into this situation thinking "WE MAY BE GETTING DUPED" GOOD reporters check and re-check sources. None of these guys did even a cursory background check on the story. I'm not talking about Watergate here...Hart told the lie. However, people who are trained and paid to write stories for a living should have been able to uncover the deceit relatively easily. It wasn't Watergate but this wasn't the Washington Post either. Still, all it would have taken was a look at Cal's fan web site. Most of them have lists of any player who Cal may have even a peripheral interest in. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 14:36:15 GMT -6
Phantom
If you look at their FAN website... then you are basing your info off of messageboarders....right? The very same message boarders who said this immediately after the press conference
A sampling from The Bear Insider.com:
"1st DI player to come out of that high school? He must be a superstar at the school." … "I think this qualifies as a KABOOM." … "Yes, I have seen him play. He's pretty good. Has college size, good skills. Good addition for Cal." … "Sounds like a great young man with size and attitude!" … "I think Kevin Hart will be one hell of a sleeper recruit for Cal."
So..those are the guys/gals whose information you are using if you went to the fan sites like you suggest.
Again, Since the "horses mouth" (The schools themselves) CAN NOT comment on someone, then there is NO reason to contact any of those schools UNLESS there is reason to suspect the kid is lying. And so, what if you did do "research"...then what. Does a reporter show up at the press conference and confront the kid? Remember, other than the school themselves, who else can "disprove" the commit?
AND remember, this is a "feel good / human interest story". You don't go around looking for fallacy in those, you simply get some quotes, get some color, and look for yoru next story.
I blame the media...not for being duped, but for pushing recruiting and making it a newsworthy story.
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Post by wildcat on Feb 10, 2008 14:52:07 GMT -6
Phantom If you look at their FAN website... then you are basing your info off of messageboarders....right? The very same message boarders who said this immediately after the press conference A sampling from The Bear Insider.com: "1st DI player to come out of that high school? He must be a superstar at the school." … "I think this qualifies as a KABOOM." … "Yes, I have seen him play. He's pretty good. Has college size, good skills. Good addition for Cal." … "Sounds like a great young man with size and attitude!" … "I think Kevin Hart will be one hell of a sleeper recruit for Cal." So..those are the guys/gals whose information you are using if you went to the fan sites like you suggest. Again, Since the "horses mouth" (The schools themselves) CAN NOT comment on someone, then there is NO reason to contact any of those schools UNLESS there is reason to suspect the kid is lying. And so, what if you did do "research"...then what. Does a reporter show up at the press conference and confront the kid? Remember, other than the school themselves, who else can "disprove" the commit? AND remember, this is a "feel good / human interest story". You don't go around looking for fallacy in those, you simply get some quotes, get some color, and look for yoru next story. I blame the media...not for being duped, but for pushing recruiting and making it a newsworthy story. Nope. The local media was totally asleep at the wheel. Did this kid win any post-season accolades? Was he all-State, all-Area? all-Conference? Was he on anyone's radar screen after his junior year? Where there ANY stories about how dominating of an offensive lineman this kid was during his junior and senior years? Do they have Internet access in Northern Nevada? You don't think that it would have made sense for a local reporter to simply google "Kevin Hart" and see what comes up? Again, all it would have taken was a few people who SHOULD have been asking some VERY simple questions and this story wouldn't have turned into such a debacle. The media dropped the ball on this story. "Feel good" or not, some very basic rules of journalism were not followed here. The only reason that Kevin Hart's epic lie made it as far as it did had EVERYTHING to do with incompetent parents, coaches, administrators, and local media. |
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Post by phantom on Feb 10, 2008 14:56:45 GMT -6
Phantom If you look at their FAN website... then you are basing your info off of messageboarders....right? The very same message boarders who said this immediately after the press conference A sampling from The Bear Insider.com: "1st DI player to come out of that high school? He must be a superstar at the school." … "I think this qualifies as a KABOOM." … "Yes, I have seen him play. He's pretty good. Has college size, good skills. Good addition for Cal." … "Sounds like a great young man with size and attitude!" … "I think Kevin Hart will be one hell of a sleeper recruit for Cal." So..those are the guys/gals whose information you are using if you went to the fan sites like you suggest. Again, Since the "horses mouth" (The schools themselves) CAN NOT comment on someone, then there is NO reason to contact any of those schools UNLESS there is reason to suspect the kid is lying. And so, what if you did do "research"...then what. Does a reporter show up at the press conference and confront the kid? Remember, other than the school themselves, who else can "disprove" the commit? AND remember, this is a "feel good / human interest story". You don't go around looking for fallacy in those, you simply get some quotes, get some color, and look for yoru next story. I blame the media...not for being duped, but for pushing recruiting and making it a newsworthy story. Message boards? No. In the content there's usually a section with info about the guys they're recruiting. That's what I'm saying that they could have looked at. I agree that the recruiting hoopla is crazy. It gets people fired, both in college and HS. |
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 10, 2008 15:28:37 GMT -6
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Post by theprez98 on Feb 10, 2008 15:41:29 GMT -6
With all this talk of "good reporters" and "good journalism"...
Where have they gone? With few exceptions, there is no such thing anymore.
The rush is to be first rather than be right.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 16:02:01 GMT -6
AGAIN though..you guys keep saying "oh, the media should have 'researched' ". What do they DO?
THE SCHOOL, is hosting the press conference .
The KID is saying he was offered a scholarship, WHY ON EARTH would they make it up?
So, you do your research, you see that this kid is not listed highly on rivals or scouts or any of that...NOW WHAT? Remember, he "announced" his choice for the first time at the press conference, and the only person who can attest to that are HART and CAL. And as I said, if you call up call, they can not comment on it if he is a recruited athlete (because it is prior to signing day).
Using your logic, each kid who "signed" then should be contacted by all of the media who printed anything, BECAUSE.. each school could have made it up.
Anyway to get back on a coaching thread, not a fundamentals of journalism thread...WHAT worries me even more was that AULT at Nevada was worried. NEV had already seen and passed on the kid, and yet, the staff was probably scared stiff when the press conference came out. Is recruiting to public? How can we as a coaching community put the genie back in the bottle.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 10, 2008 16:03:53 GMT -6
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 10, 2008 16:15:46 GMT -6
If I were a member of the media I wouldn't look it up to see if it was legit. I would just research what I'm doing a story on....Ok this kid is recruited by Cal, let me look up who else Cal has recruited. Let me know if Cal has any top 150 recruits. Lets see where their recruiting class ranks amongst other Pac 10 schools. You would think one of them would wanna learn more about this kid or the school he was going to.
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