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Post by tvt50 on Nov 11, 2011 23:52:26 GMT -6
Anybody every been 9-1 and not made the playoffs? Just wanted to know if this happens anywhere else on the planet? Two teams in our region went 9-1 and neither team made it.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 12, 2011 4:31:07 GMT -6
Anybody every been 9-1 and not made the playoffs? Just wanted to know if this happens anywhere else on the planet? Two teams in our region went 9-1 and neither team made it. It used to happen quite often in Illinois before they expanded the playoffs. |
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Post by John Knight on Nov 12, 2011 6:09:07 GMT -6
In Ohio you can go 10-0 and not make the playoffs, it has happened a few times even since they take 8 teams per region. Used to happen all the time before when it was 4 teams per region.
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Post by emptybackfield on Nov 12, 2011 6:19:20 GMT -6
What a joke. Whichever state you're in...the playoff systems need to be revamped. We have 4-6 teams here in TN making the playoffs.
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Post by fantom on Nov 12, 2011 6:22:23 GMT -6
We had a 9-1 team miss out a few years ago (1999 maybe). We went 8-2 once and missed out by a coin flp to a team that we'd beaten during the season.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 12, 2011 6:43:54 GMT -6
What a joke. Whichever state you're in...the playoff systems need to be revamped. We have 4-6 teams here in TN making the playoffs. I agree that it sucks for the 9-1 or 10-0 teams but you have to agree that the 4-6 or 3-7 teams that make it here shouldn't. In my opinion too many teams get in in Tennessee when that happens even though I understand how it happens. Before in Ohio, and I think Johnknight can attest to this more than me because they switched to 8 teams per region (4 regions in the state) my freshman or sophmore year, it was just understood that you had to schedule tough and win. Now it is typically small schools that are 9-1 or 8-2 that get left out or teams that play "nobody," either smaller schools then them who get you few computer points or the teams they beat didn't win any games. Strength of schedule is a big deal and I think it works out for the most part. All that said, I could not imagine coaching a 9-1 team and walking into the locker room after the computer rankings come out and telling my team they didn't make the cut...that would be beyond sh#tty. |
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Post by John Knight on Nov 12, 2011 7:32:05 GMT -6
The bad thing is teams in 8 or 9 team leagues have a big advantage. If you win 8 or 9 in a big league you will get automatic wins when your opponents play. If you are in a 5 or 6 team league you have to schedule power teams or your opponents may not win enough games to get you the Harbin points you need. Then when your team is down, you get your butts kicked because you scheduled for playoff points. I have seen schools make it at 4-6 over a 8-2 team though because they beat 4 BIG schools. Also if you beat big out of state team they get you more points because all of their wins are calculated as their size regardless of who they beat. www.redridersportsblog.com/2010/10/ohsaa-harbin-computer-pointsa-tutorial.html |
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Post by John Knight on Nov 12, 2011 7:45:12 GMT -6
ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/ftrglt.pdfThus the term Harbin Cows 5.3 Non-member OHSAA school opponents are assigned a point value based upon male enrollment in grades 9-11. Second level points are awarded based upon the point value of the OHSAA non-member school multiplied times the number of victories by the non-member school (one-half value for a tie). www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229953
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Post by John Knight on Nov 12, 2011 7:53:30 GMT -6
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Post by emptybackfield on Nov 12, 2011 8:33:53 GMT -6
What a joke. Whichever state you're in...the playoff systems need to be revamped. We have 4-6 teams here in TN making the playoffs. I agree that it sucks for the 9-1 or 10-0 teams but you have to agree that the 4-6 or 3-7 teams that make it here shouldn't. In my opinion too many teams get in in Tennessee when that happens even though I understand how it happens. Before in Ohio, and I think Johnknight can attest to this more than me because they switched to 8 teams per region (4 regions in the state) my freshman or sophmore year, it was just understood that you had to schedule tough and win. Now it is typically small schools that are 9-1 or 8-2 that get left out or teams that play "nobody," either smaller schools then them who get you few computer points or the teams they beat didn't win any games. Strength of schedule is a big deal and I think it works out for the most part. All that said, I could not imagine coaching a 9-1 team and walking into the locker room after the computer rankings come out and telling my team they didn't make the cut...that would be beyond sh#tty. I agree on all accounts. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. 32 teams in each class making the playoffs is a little much. However, I'm not sure 16 would be enough. I think having a few {censored} teams get destroyed in the first round is better than leaving deserving teams at home. |
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q1180
Sophomore Member
Posts: 157
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Post by q1180 on Nov 12, 2011 13:51:18 GMT -6
Man in Texas last night there were 2-8 teams playing in the first round. Pretty sad if you ask me. Granted it's essentially a bye for the team they play but still come on.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 12, 2011 14:18:09 GMT -6
That is amazing!!
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Post by jturner on Nov 12, 2011 17:55:39 GMT -6
They should just do it like Indiana and let everybody in. It gives everybody a chance to win it.
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Post by fantom on Nov 12, 2011 18:16:36 GMT -6
I've read that TVT's team is not only going to finish 9-1 but will have the highest power points total in the region (Similar to most states: Points for your wins + points for wins by teams that you've beaten).
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 12, 2011 18:47:14 GMT -6
I'm in RI, but we are right on the CT border so I follow their playoffs. They have a point system and sometimes you can go undefeated and not make the playoffs. It's rare but it's happened. You get more points if you beat bigger schools so if you have a very weak schedule and there are several other undefeated teams in your class then you can get left out with 0, 1, or 2 losses sometimes.
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by mojoben on Nov 12, 2011 21:32:27 GMT -6
Use to happen in Kansas until they went to two teams coming out of a district.
Happened to me twice when I was a player. Sure we weren't 9-1, but we had a good record and were left out of the playoffs due to only one team being able to go out of the district. If then was now, we would have made the playoffs multiple times when I was playing.
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Post by airitout616 on Nov 13, 2011 2:58:05 GMT -6
Michigan has a good system I feel. You win 6 games your in (9 game season). Then home field is based on points.....
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raivik
Freshmen Member
Posts: 44
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Post by raivik on Nov 13, 2011 3:27:14 GMT -6
We had 2-8 teams make the playoffs as well I know that is bad feeling not making it at 9-1.
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Post by tvt50 on Nov 13, 2011 6:35:11 GMT -6
Ive been a head coach for 4 years. 3 of those years at the same school and two of those 3 years we have gone 9-1 and not made the playoffs.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 13, 2011 8:03:55 GMT -6
Ive been a head coach for 4 years. 3 of those years at the same school and two of those 3 years we have gone 9-1 and not made the playoffs. That is nuts. How did you guys not get in? You guys must have some crazy postseason rules. In Illinois, all conference champions and teams with 6 or more wins are automatic qualifiers. Teams with 5 wins get in determined by "playoff points" which are the combined number of wins by your opponents (basically a strength-of-schedule thing). Every year, there are about fifteen to twenty 5-4 teams that don't get. I think the system in Illinois is pretty solid. 256 teams make the playoffs in 8 classes (32 teams per class). There are over 500 teams playing high school in Illinois, so only about half of the teams make the postseason. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 13, 2011 8:52:59 GMT -6
In Virginia we're divided into four regions. Each region has playoffs and the regional champs become state semifinalists. Each region makes it's own rules for the playoffs that determine the regional champ because there are disparities in the size of the regions (the regions are aligned geographically).
For football only, each region is divided in half and has a separate playoff. The highest classification, AAA, is divided into Division 6 and D.5. They have separate playoffs. In each region, they list the schools by enrollment biggest to smallest, draw a line in the middle, and you're then either a 5 or a 6.
Each AAA region has four districts (leagues) which are mixed between D5's and D6's. District winners get automatic bids. After that it goes by power points.
In two of the four regions they take 8 teams per Division (16 total for AAA). Another takes 6 (12 total for AAA). TVT's only takes four per division (8 total).
In two of the last three years all of the district winners-getting automatic bids-were D.6 schools (it doesn't always work out that way). That's how a 9-1 team missed out while there are 6-4 teams (still nominally AAA) in the D.5 playoffs.
The easiest solution would be for that region to expand their playoffs to conform to the rest of the state. This week, while the rest of Virginia was playing the first round of the playoffs, TVT's region was playing regular season games.
What it comes to is that the people in power there are more afraid of having bad teams in the playoffs than having good teams miss out (I haven't seen TVT's team play but I'm told that they're a legit contender if they could get in).
Hope that makes sense.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 13, 2011 12:30:47 GMT -6
(I haven't seen TVT's team play but I'm told that they're a legit contender if they could get in). Think about that... This guy's team is a legitimate contender for a state championship but doesn't even qualify for the playoffs. Not a very sound system, IMO. |
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Post by tvt50 on Nov 13, 2011 14:15:18 GMT -6
The same system in another part of the state has a 1-9 team making the playoffs, because teams are rewarded points for losses. So this 1-9 team out pointed a 2-8 team for a playoff spot.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 13, 2011 14:51:10 GMT -6
We could never have a 9-1 miss the playoffs. We have had some 4-6 make it over some 6-4 teams, but that is due to the fact that the 4 wins by the 4-6 team would have been in their league and the 6-4 team may have won their 4 non-league games but only went 2-4 in their league.
Class 5A (Largest) has 4 Regions (Leagues)
Region 1
Region 2
Region 3
Region 4
The #1 seed from region 1 would play a 4 seed from another region, and so you get a 16-team bracket like march madness.
Same goes for all classifications. Obviously the smallest schools will have 2-8 or 4-6 make it because all of their non-league games are against much bigger schools, but for the most part, you end up with anyone who was very good in the playoffs.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 13, 2011 14:58:43 GMT -6
I always find it funny when you hear about some guy who has won 15 state "championships" but then find out that there are only 12 or so teams per class in that state...basically, a state title in that state is a glorified conference championship in other states.
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Post by airman on Nov 13, 2011 15:20:28 GMT -6
up until 1986 or 1987 in wisconsin this could happen as only the conference champion made the playoffs. in 86 or 87 they expanded it to the conference champion and runner up. heck now they let teams with losing records in the playoffs. the goal now is to get into the playoffs and the conference championship has very little meaning. I am sure before long wisconsin will just be sending a championship trophy to each school and let them decide if they earned it.
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Post by fantom on Nov 13, 2011 15:31:47 GMT -6
I always find it funny when you hear about some guy who has won 15 state "championships" but then find out that there are only 12 or so teams per class in that state...basically, a state title in that state is a glorified conference championship in other states. It's not that bad here. There are 63 teams per division and the divisions only start when you get to the playoffs. |
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Post by miami5 on Nov 13, 2011 17:56:16 GMT -6
As said above, I lived in CT for most my life and we would see team that were undefeated not make it.
That is because of the CIAC great wisdom of having like 4 or 5 division, LL,L,MM,M,S changes all the time, now take a 140+ schools and fit into these classes. give like 30 teams in each class and only the TOP 4 would make it based on points of who you beat. I think it was changed last year to top 8 WOW and playoffs all down in like week and a half..
Maybe if they would start season a little earlier up there it would help..Starting SEPT 14th or later is crazy
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mhs99
Junior Member
Posts: 250
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Post by mhs99 on Nov 13, 2011 21:04:00 GMT -6
We have been 10-1 and not gone to the playoffs. In Massachustts you have to win your league. State is way behind the times. Tough to be 10-1 and stay home.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 13, 2011 21:27:32 GMT -6
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