po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 8:19:42 GMT -6
Coaches - I am wondering if any of you are having the same troubles that I am regarding kids not going hard, playing fast, being physical? This seems to becomming a major issue over the past few year within our program and I was wondering if any of you are seeing the same.
We are a smaller school, we get between 30-40 players out each year, we tend to have depth issues, therefore, trying to create competition within practice can be difficult.
I have been preaching to them about effort and going hard, being physical, etc. but the reality is, I don't think they know what being physical really is and/or how to do it........
Suggestions???
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Post by bluedevil4 on Sept 14, 2011 8:24:47 GMT -6
We have the same issue in our school. We've been trying for two months now to get our kids to start putting effort in. We have come to realize however that many of the kids simply don't seem to want to be there. They don't want to play. They are just there for the status. We have used positive/negative reinforcement and punishment. We've used good coach/bad coach methods, we've use intimidation motivation, we've used positive motivation, there simply has been no change with our kids. We give them down-ups, they do them and don't care if they make the same mistake again. We score a touchdown or get a turnover, no one cares. It's really sad.
I try every day and talk with our other coaches about what we should be doing different, but we've simply ran out of ideas. Sometimes you just get a bad basket I guess.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 8:35:38 GMT -6
We are struggling with this very issue right now. It's the first time in my coaching career that I have had the majority of the team slacking off. We went through a little check list to see if we were doing things correctly:
-Fundamental are taught and the schemes are simple: they have the ability to play fast.
-Sports Psychology is there and the kids are getting a lot of of positive, specific feedback.
-Consequences: this is probably our issue. Our kids don't tend to think past the 'here and now'. So, pulling playing time doesn't have a direct impact at practice. So, we have had to hit them with immediate consequences; starting practice over, adding on time to conditioning drills in the end of practice, etc.. This has helped out a little bit.
-Showing them the 'real world' effects of their laziness/inattentiveness on film. We won this week but the kids got a HUGE wake up call. Many of our LBs take very poor LBs simply because they don't listen for sh-t in the drills we do; this was very evident on the film. We don't lay the wood during tackling and shedding drills and it was all over that film. We were playing fast and hard in the game but the fundamentals were crap. We blew a 41-0 and were outscored 26-6 in the third quarter because of this kind of stuff.
Sometimes, you just do what you can and coach the kids up but they need to suffer the consequences of getting their a--es kicked. It's a hard lesson for them and a real hard pill for me to swallow but it's reality.
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 8:39:20 GMT -6
Thanks for your input coach. I agree and also have tried the same tactics, with same results. The sad part is, this school was never like this. This has really all happened over the last few years and progressively gotten worse.
The kids have no passion or desire. Very Sad!!
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Post by fantom on Sept 14, 2011 8:48:51 GMT -6
What's changed?
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 8:53:47 GMT -6
Coachcb - Thanks for your input. It appears that you also are seeiing and having the exact same problems.
Lazy, wow, exactly what frustrates me the most! In my book there is not excuse for being lazy - but these kids today don't seem to get it! I guess when everything is handed to you in today's world, you won't know what hard work is and the benefits of such.
You are correct, watching them get thier a** kicked, is a very hard pill for me to swallow as well, I guess that is why I am as frustrated as I am.
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 9:06:46 GMT -6
Whats changed?
Well, from a practice standpoint, nothing. We have had a few coaching changes, but the head coach has been here for 11 years. Same practice philosophy, aproach.
If I may be honest here, what has changed in my opinion (aside from football), is society. When 'competitor' and/or 'competition' has been removed from society because now adays 'everyone' who participates must get a trophy - this is your result.
I will stop here with the society topic, otherwise my blood pressure will kill me as I am typing.
I started this post to see if others are having the same issues and if so, maybe I could get some tips to assist me in trying to change this new culture that I seem to be dealing with.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 9:11:24 GMT -6
Coachcb - Thanks for your input. It appears that you also are seeiing and having the exact same problems. Lazy, wow, exactly what frustrates me the most! In my book there is not excuse for being lazy - but these kids today don't seem to get it! I guess when everything is handed to you in today's world, you won't know what hard work is and the benefits of such. You are correct, watching them get thier a** kicked, is a very hard pill for me to swallow as well, I guess that is why I am as frustrated as I am. I feel that my staff and I do a good job with the team, for the most part. There are always areas to improve upon and we're working on it. But, sometimes you can't teach the kids those real important lessons. They have to get kicked in the teeth to figure it out. |
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 9:17:13 GMT -6
Are your kids SOFT??
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 9:25:30 GMT -6
No, it's quite the opposite; I coach/teach on a Native American reservation. Our kids come from hard lives. Our kids are terrified of failure and that is where the lack of effort comes from. They have seen people around them lose in life constantly so they have a quitter mentality. They are under the impression that putting effort into things isn't worth it because they think they'll lose in the end. This is also fueled by basketball down here; it's king. The basketball HC doesn't demand anything from the kids but they're still competitive. BUT, we got a big win this weekend (the first in 5 years) so they turned it around a little bit this week. They know what it means to put some work into something and succeed. Especially after watching film. |
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 9:26:05 GMT -6
I guess I should be more specific. Anymore it seems like I get one or two "TOUGH" kids out for football. The rest of them are Soft.
How many real "TOUGH" kids do you have on your teams??
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po10
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Posts: 14
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 9:27:59 GMT -6
Congrats on the big win coach! I am glad to see that you are making progress and I wish you the best.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 9:38:52 GMT -6
I guess I should be more specific. Anymore it seems like I get one or two "TOUGH" kids out for football. The rest of them are Soft. How many real "TOUGH" kids do you have on your teams?? We have about 9-10 guys out of 21 (8-man ball) that I would call tough. Well, 'tough-ish'; they understand that football needs to be played violently. But, it's a daily battle with two of our better athletes as they are friggin sloths. One of them is riding the bench this week because of his attitude; we'll see if that improves anything. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 14, 2011 9:41:09 GMT -6
How do you define tough?
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 9:55:53 GMT -6
For me, a 'tough' kid simply understands how football needs to be played. They understand that it's a violent game and that you need to come to hit. |
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 9:58:14 GMT -6
The TOUGH that I am referring to is one that would push himself through an injury without having to tell anyone, one that does not back down from anyone, one that will hit you harder the next time because he realized that he didn't hit you hard enough the first time - without being told.
I don't have many of these types of kids anymore.
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Post by mattharris75 on Sept 14, 2011 10:01:57 GMT -6
Two things that, I believe, have contributed in us going from a soft team to a tough team:
1. Off season strength & conditioning - The kids work hard in the off-season. Lifting, pushing prowlers, etc, etc. And we have a form of competition at the end of most of our workouts, which encourages that mindset. They have just bought into it. It helps when you have a few kids who are gym rats to begin with that the others can look up to.
2. Downhill run game - This is not meant be an indictment of 'spread' football. But in Alabama, the 'spread' is king. We switched to a split back veer last season, and the kids have become more and more physical. There's just no finesse involved. For one thing the blocking rules are simple and aggressive, and for another everything attacks fast and full speed downhill. They now take pride in absolutely wearing out the opponent and ramming it down their throats in the 4th quarter. 3 or 4 years ago I never would have believed it...
Your mileage may vary, but these are two things I can really look to as having been game changers for us over the last few years.
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Post by fantom on Sept 14, 2011 10:09:56 GMT -6
.... and walk three miles to school, uphill both ways, through the snow, even in summer.
If that's your definition no wonder you don't have a lot of "tough" guys. How many of those guys does any team have? When I played over 40 years ago we only had a couple of guys who were naturally tough by that definition and we had really good teams.
If you define toughness as playing hard, hitting people, getting up after getting hit, and never giving up in a game then that's learned. It rarely comes naturally.
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Post by bucksweepdotcom on Sept 14, 2011 10:52:34 GMT -6
Good point. There are a lot of tough schools that play terrible football and a lot of "soft" schools that have great programs.
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 10:55:05 GMT -6
Hmmmmmm, I guess I am out in left field then. Because I call a tough football player one that gets a minor injury and can 'suck it up' and not have to run to a trainer for every little bump or bruise.
I call it tough when one 'fights back' and refuses to let anyone push him around.
I call it tough when one has self pride and realizes that he just got his a** kicked, and then DOES something about it.
Its learned, I get that. However, those things are not being taught at a young age anymore. Thats why we don't have many Tough kids when they get to us!
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2011 11:05:38 GMT -6
.... and walk three miles to school, uphill both ways, through the snow, even in summer. If that's your definition no wonder you don't have a lot of "tough" guys. How many of those guys does any team have? When I played over 40 years ago we only had a couple of guys who were naturally tough by that definition and we had really good teams. If you define toughness as playing hard, hitting people, getting up after getting hit, and never giving up in a game then that's learned. It rarely comes naturally. Then, I guess this does tie into the original question. How do you go about teaching 'toughness'? |
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po10
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Post by po10 on Sept 14, 2011 11:12:33 GMT -6
Thanks Coachcb, I thought thats what my original question(s) were all about.
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Post by fantom on Sept 14, 2011 12:11:10 GMT -6
It helps to have an established program so that peer pressure comes into play.
Even when you do, though, and have good leaders they need to be jump-started sometimes.
The coaches need to explain their expectations and hold the players to them. Example: running to the ball on defense. In all of our group and team defensive work we clap it off. That's not unique but I'll explain it anyway. Every play every defensive player is expected to run to the ball. Last one in yells, "Ready, ready, ready" and everybody claps. The first time or two that they don't we'll warn them. That usually works because they know that that's expected. If it happens again we'll stop what we're doing and do a puruit drill. Then we get back to the drill.
If kids are going to the trainer go check on them. Maybe, send another player.
Film practice and find time to show them the film if you don't like what you see. This isn't a job for Hudl, either.
Just a few things.
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Post by blitzclip on Sept 22, 2011 16:45:05 GMT -6
Thats a good question coach. To me, a tough kid is not one who lives in a bad neighborhood or is poor. Just like all wealthy kids are not soft, all "hood" kids are not tough. I would go so far to say that a lot of "poor"kids are spoiled in todays world. A "tough" kid to me is a kid that is mentally tough. It is a kid who understands that life is tough and its not easy. A mentally tough kid will not back down from adversity. There is a world of difference between being "hood" tough and life and football tough. To me tough is the kid who will stand in there and fight till the bitter end no matter what. |
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Post by brophy on Sept 22, 2011 18:40:07 GMT -6
film your practices. See how much time you spend grabbing {censored} or standing around. How can you amp up the intensity of practice? Coaches should be pushing the tempo with scripted Indy, Group, and Team sessions. Walk and Talk during pre-practice, but once practice 'starts', NOBODY should be walking or jogging anywhere on the field if you're waiting until August or September to make your team "tough", you've already lost. brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/there-is-no-secret.html |
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