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Post by rbcoacher on Dec 4, 2007 13:29:52 GMT -6
I just went through a year where we were -16 in turnover margin. As the runningback coach I have only myself to blame because we had too many fumbles. It seems when you talk about it more then it just snowballs from there and gets worse. If you don't discuss it with the kids then it may appear that is not a major problem. What is weird about the entire problem is that last year we lost 4 fumbles for the season and went 9-2 doing the exact same ball handling drills as this year. I know we all have those years but I wanted to see if I could do something in the future differently or to change something up a bit.
I just wanted to know what you guys do for ball security drills and if you have had a similiar problem??? If you have, then how did you address the problem?? Thanks in advance
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Post by superpower on Dec 4, 2007 13:49:31 GMT -6
A running back who continues to fumble is going to hurt the team at a key point in the season. Put him on the bench or at a position where he won't hurt the team. They must understand that it is not their ball but the team's ball.
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custer
Freshmen Member
Posts: 26
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Post by custer on Dec 4, 2007 14:04:45 GMT -6
I know just what your saying about it snowballing. We had that problem 4 years ago. Since then we have started day 1 practice emphasizing ball security. We also work our defense on "liberating the ball". We make a big deal of forcing fumbles we give a Gatorade to the player that strips the ball during practice, while the player that loses it has some extra incentive to not give it up. This makes our backs focus on holding on to the ball. Also we have one coach that the off player must hand to after every play. Since we have started this we have been +9, +8, +11 in the turnover ratio.
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Post by rbcoacher on Dec 4, 2007 14:30:56 GMT -6
superpower, I agree with what you said totally but I should have said that fumbling was from a combination of about 5 different backs that we utilized this season in a wing t offense. It was not just one guy. It was also our qb too, placing the ball in different spots on the different handoffs that we use.
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Post by superpower on Dec 4, 2007 14:41:09 GMT -6
What are you emphasizing on ball handling? We teach/require four points of contact for all ball carriers: fingers over one point, other point against the bicep, forearm, and ribs.
And I must admit that we do fumble on occasion, but we also put that player on the bench long enough for him to realize that we can't tolerate being lose with the ball.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 4, 2007 14:57:40 GMT -6
In addition to what superpower said (we have 5 points... the palm... same thing):
We reward our scout team with less conditioning if they cause a fumble- we penalize our starters if they fumble (extra sprint, etc.). The fact that turnovers are on their minds every time they are dressed out helps a bit.
We too had a bit of a problem early: 6 fumbles in our first 3 games (4 all of last year). Whether the added emphasis, drill work (all RB carry a ball during all sprints/conditioning), we ended the season with 6 fumbles, but I think the biggest thing was the constant emphasis (nagging).
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Post by wingtol on Dec 4, 2007 15:22:45 GMT -6
I have never coached rb's but our HC does our Rb's and reps the hell out of ball security with the 4 points of contact, daily gauntlet drills, emphasis on both hands on the ball through the hole and he also teaches them never to switch the ball from arm to arm. I know there are many thoughts on that but we have fumbled 4 times in the last 2 years. It can also be a mental thing that you need to break through with players.
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Post by lochness on Dec 4, 2007 15:34:45 GMT -6
In addition to what superpower said (we have 5 points... the palm... same thing): We reward our scout team with less conditioning if they cause a fumble- we penalize our starters if they fumble (extra sprint, etc.). The fact that turnovers are on their minds every time they are dressed out helps a bit. We too had a bit of a problem early: 6 fumbles in our first 3 games (4 all of last year). Whether the added emphasis, drill work (all RB carry a ball during all sprints/conditioning), we ended the season with 6 fumbles, but I think the biggest thing was the constant emphasis (nagging). As a RB position coach, I stress ball security every day in individuals and / or pre-practice warm-ups. That way, it becomes second nature rather then a psychological thing where the more you talk about it, the worse it gets. Start from day one and never let up! Drills that we run weekly: 1. MONKEY ROLLS WITH FOOTBALLS- Just like it sounds. We get three guys down on their bellies, while holding footballs. They execute monkey rolls for 15 seconds while concentrating on holding the football. This is more about concentration than anything else. 2. STRIP GAUNTLET WITH 2 FOOTBALLS- No, brophy, "Strip Gauntlet" is not a bachelor party activity, nor is it a bar in Montreal. We line all of the RB's up in a gauntlet. The RB carries a ball in each arm, using the "5-points of pressure" fundamentals (like the honorable senator mentioned). Carrying one in each arm forces them to focus more on the fundamental and the isometric "squeeze" they need to apply to the ball while running. 3. ARM WRESTLE DRILL- Pair up your backs. Make sure each partner alternates carrying arms before each rep. The ballcarriers line up on the 10 yard line, facing the endzone. The "partner" piggy-backs the ballcarrier by reaching over his shoulder opposite the carrying arm and holding on to the front of the shoulder pads. He will then use his other arm to rip, claw, punch, and do anything to try to force a fumble. On the whistle, the RB's have to pump their legs and cross the endzone without fumbling the ball. 4. ANCHOR DRILL- This is the same set up as the "Arm Wrestle" drill, but it has the partner holding the ballcarrier back in a "horse collar" grip. The back must struggle and drive through the 10 yards to score while being held back by his partner. Aside from being a good overall RB drill, what we really focus on here is forcing the ballcarrier to maintain all 5 points of pressure. Most of the time, when backs are straining for additional yardage, they have a tendancy to separate the ball from their body as they drive forward or try to escape a tackle. This drill focuses them back on maintaining proper carrying fundamentals in these situations. Hopefully, this helps coach.
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Post by tye2021 on Dec 4, 2007 17:02:11 GMT -6
Also focus on how he moves his arms when he is running the football. Is he running like a sprinter with both arms or is he using the free arm to run and using the other to secure the ball nice and tight to his body? Look at film and study what he is doing wrong and correct IT.
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dgs
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by dgs on Dec 4, 2007 17:26:46 GMT -6
Look also at the angle of the ball. If it is horizontal then it is more likely to be fumbled, even with 4 or 5 points. The front tip of the ball should tilted up at a 45 degree angle to better secure the ball.
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Post by dubber on Dec 4, 2007 18:34:28 GMT -6
Our 6'3'' 275 lbs. OT once punched our RB on the bottom of a pile for fumbling......
............that seemed to solve things
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Dec 4, 2007 20:01:59 GMT -6
I coach Running Backs at the NAIA level, my first year, but one of key points that we talked about was 'pinching the elbow'. That causes the ball to be pointed up, we did emphasize the 5 points of contact, but 'pinching the elbow' was always our key phrase. If the elbow was squeezed to the side and they had the front tip covered everything is normally good. We did only lose one fumble all year in the running game so I'll take that.
Just rep the heck out of agilities, cuts, and gauntlet drills. Then jump their butt anytime the ball gets away from their body.
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Post by lochness on Dec 4, 2007 20:04:03 GMT -6
Good point, coach...
We call it "locking the elbow," but it's the exact same fundamental. Keep the elbow on the carrying arm down and agains the rib cage.
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dgs
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by dgs on Dec 4, 2007 22:26:55 GMT -6
20x, I like that coaching point. Thanks
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coachg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 119
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Post by coachg on Dec 4, 2007 22:48:58 GMT -6
One Thing I have found that helps with fumbling problems is we make a big deal out of a fumble if it happens in practice. Every coach goes nuts especially the coordinator.
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Post by captainpp on Dec 5, 2007 10:34:10 GMT -6
Good points everywhere.
In the old days we would put a nylon around the ball to do the gauntlet. If you fumbled the week before, you had to carry a f-ball around the hall's for a week of school.
I'm a youth coach so I try to bring a little bit of fun into are practices and this is one place that I do this but in the same breath we take it seriously. The gaultlet is done by the parents that get a free shot at their kids while they at 1/2 speed run a circuit . The circuit would be layed with obstacles, such as ladder ropes, and dummies. ( By the way this was done years ago in a differant state that I now live. The only parent involvement I receive now is WHAT TIME IS PRACTICE OVER,SO I KNOW WHAT TIME TO LEAVE WAL-MART) but parents would dress out for this and had fun themselves . They bring cow bells and whisiles and water gun's ect. At differant point's the player would have to break thru a double team of dads holding dummies and a dad would have a carpet taged with a rope and when he came thru he tug on the rope a bit just to send him off balanced . Two sets of mom's would be swinging a jump rope while in-between that brother and sisters would be spraying their water gun's . While all this was going on we would be slaping at the ball. Thing was all players ran the coarse, had FUN !! which is needed at times and brought involvement. Heck we even had a Mom run it once...
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Post by lsrood on Dec 5, 2007 11:21:23 GMT -6
Our running backs do monkey rolls in full pads holding onto a ball until the coach gets tired for fumbling (practice or games). That tends to keep the number of fumbles down. We lost only 4 fumbles on the season. (10 games)
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Post by rbcoacher on Dec 5, 2007 13:39:54 GMT -6
All good points. Lochness, I really liked the Anchor Drill. I think I will add that to my ball security in the future. I too, emphasize the 4 points as mentioned above and work ball security everyday using also the same drills mentioned above. I like the idea of taking a player out and I do that as well. It just so happens that the back ups were doing the same. You guys run into problems where the qb places the ball in poor spots while handing off? Our qb was never really consistant with the ball placement on our run plays...sometimes too high or on the ribs, too low. Anybody have much experience with this before? I think it was possibly due to the fact that he was a soph. playing on our varsity and rotating with a senior....not much consistancy.
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Post by coachdjenkins on Dec 5, 2007 20:59:51 GMT -6
We work on Ball Security daily during a pre-practice agility period. Same drills.
Something Different We use Football partially filled with water. The weight the ball combined with the shifting of the water, forces the ball carrier to secure the ball properly.
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Post by cmow5 on Dec 5, 2007 22:34:15 GMT -6
We work on Ball Security daily during a pre-practice agility period. Same drills. Something Different We use Football partially filled with water. The weight the ball combined with the shifting of the water, forces the ball carrier to secure the ball properly. I love that idea! But, how do you get the water in the ball?
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Post by justwingit on Dec 6, 2007 15:35:52 GMT -6
same drills as those mentioned - plus we always have our ballcarriers run with a football during conditioning - gets them used to running in open field and still secure the ball
This year we bought a Gillman gauntlet and thought that was a valuable tool for us.
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Post by adienner on Dec 6, 2007 17:04:30 GMT -6
we like to tell our players to 'tiki' the ball. after tiki barber. We tell them the story about how tiki used to have a problem with fumbling the ball until he held it higher on his chest and at a 45% angle as previously stated.
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Dec 6, 2007 20:07:20 GMT -6
Tip of the ball should go from nipple to nipple!!!
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Post by coachdjenkins on Dec 6, 2007 22:01:01 GMT -6
Head developed a tool to fill the balls with water. I believe since then World Sporting Goods now markets a device to do it (Called the Anti-Fumbling Kit). My HC got the idea from some local farmers who use to put water in the tires of tractors.
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Post by cmow5 on Dec 6, 2007 22:55:09 GMT -6
Head developed a tool to fill the balls with water. I believe since then World Sporting Goods now markets a device to do it (Called the Anti-Fumbling Kit). My HC got the idea from some local farmers who used to put water in the tires of tractors. Thanks, I will definitely look in to that!
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Post by dacoachmo on Dec 8, 2007 21:28:47 GMT -6
Do the fumbles happen at the same time???
during the handoff, in the box, in the open field, when tackler makes contact?
Some other keys
1) Two hands on the ball in the box 2) in the open, in one hand, Wrist higher then the elbow 3) when tackler makes contact, cover the ball up 4) Never switch the ball, when it is in one hand it stays there!
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Post by coachorr on Dec 9, 2007 11:39:08 GMT -6
Both arms and hands over the ball in the hole, High and Tight in the open field (then it cannot be punched out from behind and the chances of a helmet on the ball is slim).
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dlo
Sophomore Member
Posts: 128
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Post by dlo on Dec 9, 2007 18:49:34 GMT -6
We also do most of those drills. Next year we will definately be adding the monkey rolls, I love that. One other thing we do is what we call ball flexes. The RB simply stands with the ball secured and flexes the muscles in his forearm to squeeze the ball. It strengthens the arm and gets the player use to squeezing it tight.
We make kids that fumble in a game carry a football with them during practice. If they are not in a scrimmage situation or in a drill, they have a ball in their hands. Captains and coaches have the fun of being able to strip the ball from them. If they get stripped, they do 25 push ups right then and there. They carry the ball at practice every day until they play a game and dont fumble. This "game" makes them focus on holding the ball high and tight. We had a kid fumble in a game and break his foot in the same game. He had ball duty until he came back. You would see him at practice and games with the ball taped to his crutches. The kids have fun with it, but no one wants to be the guy with ball duty.
As for the Tiki method...we thought about it, but just felt that you cant run naturally with the ball secured to your chest like that. If it works for you...great, but it didn't work for us.
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Post by gregspahn on Dec 10, 2007 20:49:52 GMT -6
A couple of things that might help: 1. Look at how Ron Dayne carried the ball later in his career at Wisconsin. He was almost perfect with squeezing his elbow and cradling the ball with this hand. Show the kids how to do it with a picture. 2. Practice with a wet ball often. We had some footballs that we would dip in a 5 gallon bucket of water before rb and c/qb exchange drills early in practice and later during our team period.
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Post by gregspahn on Dec 10, 2007 21:01:05 GMT -6
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