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Post by coachnichols on Jul 24, 2007 11:51:25 GMT -6
Not to go into too much detail, but...
Dad of a sophomore player thinks the son is All-World and should start for us (the new staff) because he was a starter for several games last year. The kid tore his ACL at some point last year and isn't even cleared to run yet. Dad thinks our staff isn't giving the son a fair shot even though, like I said, he's not cleared to do anything and we haven't even started practice yet. But, like I said, we're not giving his son a fair shot to start. Threats of "taking his boy somewhere else to play" keep coming up (city of 9 high schools, 4-5 suburban schools) and the kicker is, the son isn't even that good. I've only seen film, but on said film his throwing motion is terrible, he's not the best athlete we have, and he's only a sophomore with a bad wheel.
All that being said, my choice would be to cut him loose immediately. Sign his transfer and get rid of the cancer. Here's the rub though...again, not too much detail but, parent can "help us" in the coming years.
Any thoughts?
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Post by knight9299 on Jul 24, 2007 12:14:45 GMT -6
If you sat down with dad and explained him the situation and still doesn't get it- let the kid go.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 24, 2007 12:16:46 GMT -6
You've already stated it very clearly -
Kid can't play now (injured) Kid is not that good - when healthy Dad is already a pain in the butt - what will be like when his kid is healthy?
The only positive is dad "might" be able to help you down the road...
Sounds like a time to either wish him well at his new school or "... roll the dice and take your chances!"
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Post by coachmoore42 on Jul 24, 2007 12:55:09 GMT -6
What is the kid like? If he's a jerk like his dad I'm all for wishing them well somewhere else. If he isn't a grade, attitude, or behavior problem I would try my best to tolerate the ignorant dad and keep the kid around. If the kid is a good student/teammate, just not the most outstanding player, I would schedule a meeting for the dad with the A.D., HC, OC, and QB coach (maybe the principal too, according to how involved they expect to be). Lay down the law, tell him where the kid stands, and let him know how much you like the kid and want him to be with the team.
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Post by CVBears on Jul 24, 2007 12:56:44 GMT -6
fish or cut bait...where's the knife?
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Post by dubber on Jul 24, 2007 14:03:43 GMT -6
IMO, the Dad is bluffing, set your limits and stick to them........don't let him get in your ear---let him know this is unacceptable.
Then, let him make the decision about if they leave or not.
You can be firm and not compromise yourself, without having to punish the kid
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 24, 2007 15:00:03 GMT -6
IMO, the Dad is bluffing, set your limits and stick to them........don't let him get in your ear---let him know this is unacceptable. Then, let him make the decision about if they leave or not. You can be firm and not compromise yourself, without having to punish the kid I would second the bluff. Had a guy tell us he was taking his kid somewhere else if he didn't start varsity as a fresh. I said let him walk. Dad didn't have a response. It was a total bluff. But two weeks later our HC started him for the rest of the season.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 24, 2007 16:18:42 GMT -6
Don't even deal with the parent; go straight to the kid.
My policy is simple, I WILL NOT talk to a parent about a player conflict until I talk to that player first. See how the kids feels about the whole thing; his playing time, his knee, etc... Explain you're thoughts to him and go from there. You're relationship needs to be with the player; as such you need to make an effort with him. If you and the player come to an understanding and dad is still being a jackass, then let the dad do whatever he wants.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 24, 2007 16:45:19 GMT -6
coachcb hits it right 100%
your relationship is with the kid, not the deal making dad. He's bad news because he's promising you that he can help you and your program. That's not daddy's job.
have a sit down with the kid - If the two of you are square, let your admin know that the dad needs to run all deals through them. maybe he can help your entire athletic department. LOL
anyway - you do owe the boy at least a conversation and then move on (with or without him). Dad makes this scenario nothing but a liability on YOUR time. I"ve had to politely inform parents that they are NOT part of the inner-circle. The inner circle is the coaching staff and the only ones invited in are players.
Be direct but have your admin's support.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 24, 2007 20:30:07 GMT -6
if by "might help" you mean financially....cut bait now. Don't let him "buy" the program
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Post by wingman on Jul 24, 2007 21:45:15 GMT -6
We don't discuss - playing time - strategy - other players PERIOD We'll talk about what kid needs to do t oget better. I don't care how good the kid is, do what you would do anyway and let chips fall.
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Post by shamespiral on Jul 24, 2007 21:46:39 GMT -6
Coach, videotape is a very powerfull thing. We tape all of our practices. Drills, 7 on 7, inside, team, everything. Every time a parent has a problem with Johnny not playing we roll tape. Once you show it to them and break it down in an objective way they tend to see the light.
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Post by lukethadrifter on Jul 25, 2007 4:47:38 GMT -6
I agree with showing the parent film. This happens everywhere all the time. A parent thinks his son should be starting, playing, etc... We film certain portions of workouts as well. Bring them in and show them film. If there is another player that is clearly superior, the workout or game films will show it. Luke
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Post by threeback on Jul 25, 2007 6:10:32 GMT -6
Sounds to me like the dad is testing the new staff to see how much pull he can get with you guys. I would just like to reiterate what everyone else has said about sitting the dad down and talking to him. If I were a head coach, I would NEVER sell out my program with hopes of someone "helping" me out down the road. The thing I don't like about guys like that is that parents like him don't realize that this is our profession. Never in my wildest dreams would I go to his or her place of work and try to tell them how to do their jobs, but I guess delusional parents come hand in hand with coaching. Good luck, I hope everything works out.
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Post by champ93 on Jul 25, 2007 6:21:20 GMT -6
Sounds to me like the dad is testing the new staff to see how much pull he can get with you guys. I agree, you're being tested. Having been there the best advice I can give is stick to your standards. The kid will be with you, at the most, 3 years. If you buckle to dad now, you lose credibility for the remainder of your career which I assume you want to be longer than 3 years.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jul 25, 2007 6:30:24 GMT -6
I feel your pain. I have a Dad with the threats of moving his kid, because he don't like that we run the veer. We should run what he thinks is best. Parent issues have been popping up left & right, and this is only my 2nd year as head coach. They ran out the last coach, and I feel I'm the next victim!! I lay down my rules, and they don't like them. Kids are great. Parents, something else!!! This from a team that lost 48 in a row, before we won last year!!!
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Post by bluecrazy on Jul 25, 2007 6:37:17 GMT -6
Wingman I agree with your policy. I will talk to a parent about there kid, but not others, and not playing time. That is earned in practice!!! And on strategy, We know what we have to work with, and we set our practice. Coachnichols, hang in there and stick to your guns!! I needed this thread also, just to remind me that I need to coach the way I feel is best. Thanks all, & good luck! The season is here!!
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Post by coachcb on Jul 25, 2007 8:14:23 GMT -6
Coach, videotape is a very powerfull thing. We tape all of our practices. Drills, 7 on 7, inside, team, everything. Every time a parent has a problem with Johnny not playing we roll tape. Once you show it to them and break it down in an objective way they tend to see the light. I agree with showing the parent film, but it's a LAST RESORT for me... We had the same type of situation a few years back; dad thought that his kid was the next Brett Favre. The kid was athletic, but he was kind of slow and thick, so we started him at TE. We gave him two weeks at QB and it just didn't pan out; mainly because he COULDN'T REMEMBER THE D@MN PLAYS. We were running veer and the was just not QB material for us. I laid out my policy with the dad straight off the bat and talked to the kid about the whole thing a few times. The kid was pretty sold on playing QB, but he understood where we were coming from. It all came to a head and we had to sit down in a meeting with the AD, the dad, and the player. The dad demanded that we let the kid sit in on it; against my better judgement. But the AD said it wouldn't be fair to talk about the kid w/o him there. We brought some film from a scrimmage where we had played the kid at QB for a few series. Blown read after blown read, incorrect footwork, blown meshes, bad pitches; all stuff that we had been repping day in and day out. He had 12 plays in; 5 resulted in turnovers. It was terrible, in hind sight, I should have put my foot down and kept the kid out of the meeting. I should have show the video to the AD and completely removed the parent from it. Having to sit there and point out everything that went wrong for those 12 plays was miserable. The kid was almost in tears. This is also why I REFUSE to talk to parents about this kind of crap. Nothing good ever comes out of it; waste of time and a unnecessarily hard lesson for the kid to learn. But, when parents force their hand about this stuff; having a video of the kid screwing everything up does come in handy. The past few years, I have flat out refused to talk about positions or Xs and Os with anybody but my staff.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 25, 2007 10:50:35 GMT -6
If I had a quarter for every dad who told me that he was going to move his son into another district because the coaches here were screwing him but then never carried through on the threat, I would have a buttload of quarters.
Is this an open enrollment district? So this guy is going to sell his house, move, and buy a new house just so his kid (who isn't that good) can go and underwhelm the coach in the next district over?
Something about not letting the door hit you in the a s s on the way out comes to mind in this situation...let him be someone else's headache.
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Post by brophy on Jul 25, 2007 10:55:29 GMT -6
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Post by coachnichols on Jul 25, 2007 12:02:21 GMT -6
What is the kid like? If he's a jerk like his dad I'm all for wishing them well somewhere else. If he isn't a grade, attitude, or behavior problem I would try my best to tolerate the ignorant dad and keep the kid around. If the kid is a good student/teammate, just not the most outstanding player, I would schedule a meeting for the dad with the A.D., HC, OC, and QB coach (maybe the principal too, according to how involved they expect to be). Lay down the law, tell him where the kid stands, and let him know how much you like the kid and want him to be with the team. Kid hasn't been a problem. It seems as if dad is the problem. Living through his son I guess.
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Post by coachnichols on Jul 25, 2007 12:06:48 GMT -6
If I had a quarter for every dad who told me that he was going to move his son into another district because the coaches here were screwing him but then never carried through on the threat, I would have a buttload of quarters. Is this an open enrollment district? So this guy is going to sell his house, move, and buy a new house just so his kid (who isn't that good) can go and underwhelm the coach in the next district over? Something about not letting the door hit you in the a s s on the way out comes to mind in this situation...let him be someone else's headache. Sorry I haven't responded sooner...it's not an open enrollment district, but it sure seems that way. No, he won't have to buy a house somewhere else. It seems usually what happens is an address happens to appear in the school's area and viola, he's in! Also, some of the schools have special programs that are open to anyone in the district so a kid/parent can say my son is going to _____ HS to attend the _____ program. Again, viola, he's in!
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Post by coachcb on Jul 25, 2007 13:13:59 GMT -6
Well, if the kid's not a problem, then I would really make an effort with him to keep him around. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where you have to be a better role model for the kid than his parents...
I'm not telling you to give into the father's bs; far from it. But, I would do everything short of that to keep the kid around and see how he pans out.
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Post by hawkfan on Jul 25, 2007 13:47:42 GMT -6
So, are there any rules stating that if he did move his kid to another school, he would be ineligible for a given number of days?
Case in point...at the beginning of my senior year, my family moved to a different town. A town that had several high schools. When we got there, our address put us in High School A's "territory." But since my mom worked at High School B, I open enrolled to that high school. There must be a state rule, a community school district rule, or something along those lines that says if you open enroll in a school within the same district you are athletically ineligible for 90 days following the transfer date. So I couldn't participate in fall sports, and I decided against winter sports as well, since I wouldn't have joined the team until late Dec/early Jan.
Getting to my point, if there is something like this in your area, would this father be ready to cost his son a year of football just to give you an "I'll show you!"?
If there isn't something like this, I would echo what everyone else is saying and stick to your guns regardless.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 25, 2007 14:07:45 GMT -6
Honestly, every district I have coached in has a 90 day policy when it comes to transfers. If they are eligible to transfer, then they can do but, but they're gonna sit out of sports for 3 months.
These rules are in place for this very reason; to keep parents from trying to use transfers as leverage in sports and academics.
But, I seriously doubt the parent will go through with anything. I think he's just blowing hot air and being an idiot. Its just like parents threatening law suites. They can cry fowl all they want but most of them will never spend thousands of dollars over a kids playing time or position.
Like I said, I'd completely ignore the parent and sit down with the kid. It's amazing what you can really find out about a situation by talking to a kid for 10 minutes.
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Post by coachnichols on Jul 25, 2007 14:22:15 GMT -6
So, are there any rules stating that if he did move his kid to another school, he would be ineligible for a given number of days? Getting to my point, if there is something like this in your area, would this father be ready to cost his son a year of football just to give you an "I'll show you!"? If there isn't something like this, I would echo what everyone else is saying and stick to your guns regardless. There is a rule like that here (I think it's a semester sit out), but no one seems to inforce it. Like I said, if the address is right, you're in. If you sign up for the educational program offered, you're in. No waiting. You only have to sit out if an AD or Administrator fights the transfer and that doesnt' seem to happen.
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Post by coachcoyote on Jul 25, 2007 23:54:14 GMT -6
Try to work with the player, if possible. Sell him on the program and let his Dad keep whining. The son will set him straight if he believes. If he doesn't, he'll be just like his Dad.
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