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Post by warriorofthepast on Aug 2, 2011 16:21:47 GMT -6
Our A.D. has a infrared heat gun to measure the surface temperature of our field turf. We were not allowed to practice one day because the surface temperature was 140. Have any of you guys ran into this?
My concern is that the infrared gun is measuring the "surface" temp. It can't measure the effect of a breeze or measure the temp 6 inches from the surface. As a staff we were discussing the issue and the best we could come up with was like grilling a steak. If you put your hand on the grill surface it will probably burn your hand but you can hold your hand safely above the grill with no real issues as long as you are properly hydrated and use common sense ;D.
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 2, 2011 17:24:29 GMT -6
Does he have the slightest bit of rationale for what he considers "too hot?" I see a lot of problems here.
1) Those IR guns really depend on a universal assumption for the emissivity of the surface being measured. That is to say, everything radiates heat to some degree, as a function of its absolute temperature to the 4th power and a factor determined by the material. If the turf gives out more energy at a given temperature than the average estimated by the IR gun company, you'll get an artificially high number.
2) Assuming the actual temperature of the turf IS ~140 F, that doesn't in any way mean that it's dangerous. That grill analogy is pretty good, and it's even more accurate over the turf field. Obviously, the air temperature is nowhere near 140, so the turf is taking in more heat (from the sun) than its giving out (into the air above it). The air above the turf is way way cooler. Furthermore, the air over the field is not sitting still, it gets dispersed by any breeze, and actually creates its own breeze when the bottom layer of air rises (that old hot air rising thing) and gets replaced by cooler air from beside the field.
3) He may be worried about burns from contact with the field but that isn't a big issue because a) 140 F isn't THAT hot, b) Although convection (heat transfer between solid and fluid) and conduction (heat transfer between two solids) aren't exactly the same, there is a relationship, and as discussed above, turf isn't very good at transferring heat. A metal barbecue grill is designed to cook your food and transfer heat, turf is not.
4) I have the impression from your post he bought this thing at Wal-Mart, pointed it at the field, and saw what he thought was a big number, and freaked out, but that number is meaningless on its own.
Ask your AD if he has any logic to his decision, and if necessary, my reference is my B.Eng. in Chemical Engineering. Tell him I do this for a living. As you said, proper hydration and common sense will carry you through here. If it's stifling over the field and putting your hand to the turf is actually painful, either hose down the field (really easy solution) or modify practice a little.
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Post by Coach Huey on Aug 2, 2011 18:03:38 GMT -6
While some reports have produced temperatures upwards of 200 °F at the surface we know that credible research about the heat effect on artificial turf tells a different story. Connecticut based firm Milone & MacBroom has done extensive work on understanding the relationship between heat and artificial turf. Their December 2008 report titled “Evaluation of the Environmental Effects of Synthetic Turf Athletic Fields” concluded that at 2 feet above the surface, the average temperature difference between artificial turf and natural grass was 4 degrees Fahrenheit. At 5 feet above the surface, the average temperature difference between the two surfaces was 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit. The complete Milone & MacBroom report can be found here: www.miloneandmacbroom.com/Libraries/Documents/Evalutation_of_the_Environmental_Effects_of_Synthetic_Turf_Athletic.sflb.ashx
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jonnyjon
Sophomore Member
cOUrage
Posts: 141
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Post by jonnyjon on Aug 2, 2011 18:46:32 GMT -6
I doubt your A.D. knows what he's doing. I was a technician for 5 years I know that those tools can be inaccurate if you don't use them right, especially the cheap ones.
I would show him that you can lay on the turf and be fine even if the temp reads 140f. And if it's too hot for you to lay on, then maybe he's right about not practicing on it.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Aug 2, 2011 19:12:03 GMT -6
Are there any other grass facilities near or on campus to use for practice?
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Post by sandstorm on Aug 2, 2011 19:26:39 GMT -6
Our field turf must have been 376 degrees today. Adapt and overcome. Build in plenty of water breaks (no longer than 20 minute sessions without a break). The human body can do amazing things, if hydrated.
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 2, 2011 19:54:33 GMT -6
Great job pulling up that report Huey! That should ease your AD's concern, and you can give a copy to any parents who complain.
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 2, 2011 19:59:53 GMT -6
Is it coincidence that we now have an ad for thermal imagers at the top of the screen?
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Post by warriorofthepast on Aug 3, 2011 9:26:03 GMT -6
thanks guys.
we do have grass fields right by the turf but the day we had camp cancelled by administration it hadn't been cut in a couple of weeks and obviously wasn't lined or painted.
the next three days of camp we practiced on the grass after it was cut and lined. Just very frustrating and was looking for some info like you guys presented to maybe pass along.
we tried to tell them that "we aren't going to try and kill the kids.... we need them to play." we will see looks like the next couple of weeks will be just as hot.
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Post by Coach Goodnight on Aug 3, 2011 21:31:27 GMT -6
I think that the AD is going the CYA route here, Hes gonna cover his a$$ because no one else will. With heat related deaths in football a very real concern for admins and the such I can understand where he is coming from. Engineer, Technician, whatever you are will not matter when it is someones kid that dies. I would cut the guys some slack, hes doing what he feels is right, as they say better safe than sorry.
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 3, 2011 22:21:15 GMT -6
I respect the AD's safety-first approach, I'm want to show him that this is not something to be concerned about. And if a P.Eng says in court that the turf was not a factor in a kid's death, I really hope that matters. Legally, of course. The kid's death is still tragic.
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