|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 5, 2005 16:29:32 GMT -6
Based on suggestion from brophy, I am doing this:
General consequences for various stupidity:
Powers- 15 sec. of Knee tucks, 15 sec. of “spread eagle” (like jumping jacks, but feet must come together before you hit the floor), 15 sec. of scissors (again, feet together before hitting the floor), 15 pushups, 15 situps, 15 sec. of running (usually around the gym). This is one power. The most we have ever done is 32.
(Mascot) Reminders- Sprint 10 yds, 10 updowns. Start at goal line- go to other goal line and back (=1).
We do not have to use these often, but have had to do them (weight room not clean, unexcused practice).
Other rules we have-
Practice 1st miss without a reason (reasons I know before practice, excuses are what I get after they miss)- demoted. If you started, you don’t start, etc. 2nd miss a game, 3rd miss 2 games, 4th miss season. All of these contain make up conditioning as well as "reminders".
Meetings- If late, you are demoted.
About the “demotions”… a lot of times it may be for a series only. Had to demote one this year- soph. only on KOR missed the first return. They didn’t score, so he missed the game (close, low scoring game…couldn’t afford to put young guys in). His fault, not mine.
I’ve kept these general consequences, though I’ve tried to be more proactive. Ex. I used to get on them about the LR cleanliness all of the time. Now, each class has it for a week. I still threaten reminders, powers, etc… but when the juniors, for ex., have locker room clean up, they get on everyone else, and do a pretty good job (probably cleaner than their rooms).
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 5, 2005 16:32:47 GMT -6
you familiar with "bellies?"...they are the cure all.
|
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 5, 2005 16:38:29 GMT -6
no... enlighten me.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 5, 2005 16:51:34 GMT -6
Bellies are the ultimate consequence..why? because if a kid "dogs" it, he does more work...he must work hard or he works more...heres how it works...
lets say you have kid A. B and C. each has had some sort of infraction...
you start them lined up in their gear at the goal line. on the coaches command they take off for the other goal line. the fat lazy ones will want to jog...thats their choice...they will pay for that.
every 3-5 seconds a coach blows the whistle and the kids must all stop and drop to belly position. (the real athletic kids will fly and flop) anyhow, skipping a stop and drop means an extra 100 yards for EVERYONE...
now, the faster kids will "hit it" far fewer times than the slower kids...thus, less work if they sprint hard. heres the catch...
the fast kids, the ones that cross the goal line first GET TO REST until the last kid crosses the line...so, run hard, rest more...
the last kid to cross, GETS NO REST as the group then sprints back, again the coach blowing the whistle every 3-5 seconds.
fast kids might hit it 4-5 times before covering 100 yards while a slow or lazy kid might hit it 12-15 times. In all cases, they are winded and "get it" and wont be a problem any more.
I had a kid do 11000 yards in practice for lying to me about his whereabouts/skipping practice.
my team rules state that all missed practices/excused are 500 yards of bellies and all unexcused (no parent phone call/note) are 1000. all bellies must be made up before a kid can play in a game.
i also do bellies for detentions, academic inelligibles , discipline, cursing, fighting, etc.
i do bellies for penalties, ie offsides, encroachment, illegal motion, fumbles, late hits, conduct, forgetting equipment...whatever. bellies are it.
bellies are the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by los on Dec 5, 2005 17:19:02 GMT -6
Yeah coach, we use to call those grass drills or belly flops, some folks call them up/downs. They were my high school coaches answer to everything from curfew violation to acting up in class to poor game performance(entire team at once). Very painful experience in conjunction with sprinting the entire field between them! I think he had a magic # in mind when he started or else till somebody threw up their lunch or started crying and quit and went home!
|
|
|
|
Post by los on Dec 5, 2005 17:38:59 GMT -6
Geez coach, I just read your post a little closer there, does that say 11,000 yards. I've never seen a guy last more than 3-400 yards worth(the way we had to do them) without cracking! Although we did way more bellies than sprinting! I can go along with the stupid personnal foul type penaltys or gross misbehavior at school but some stuff is just "In the heat of battle" kinda thing and comes with playing a rough sport to me!
|
|
|
|
Post by toprowguy on Dec 5, 2005 18:23:47 GMT -6
How was does your administration feel about these punishments? I can see the phone calls and emails coming now from parents. I guess rules are rules.
I'm always a little shy about punishing kids with physical punishment. Its the best way to get your point acrossed though.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Dec 5, 2005 22:43:11 GMT -6
football is a team sport. why punish one player. punish the whole team.
if one player is late, the whole team runs.
if one player gets a personal foul, the team runs 15 sprints per 1 foul. 1 sprint for each yard.
marine corps does this. it builds unity and self policing.
there have been times when I made the offending player watch while his teammates ran. what the team did to him afterwards, well that is their own business.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 6, 2005 4:00:57 GMT -6
ah, first mistake is calling it "punishment"... its DISCIPLINE ...something you do for someone, not to someone.
its conditioning.
"punishment" would be letting that stuff go on with no consequences. that would only encourage more nonsense.
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Dec 6, 2005 7:05:43 GMT -6
I'm no drill instructor, so I can only give what I have done in the past.
TEAM consequences
--To start off the season on a TEAM accountability note, If any kid was late,forgot equipment, etc....ANYBODY....the entire team did extra conditioning at the end of practice. For late stuff, the entire team ran 110's (yards) for every minute late.
Other stuff were 420s'....Team starts off at one corner of the endzone and runs to each corner in under 16 seconds, goes completely around the field. Have done up to 7 of these after practice (sucks).
INDY consequences
---don't do these much anymore, as the TEAM stuff early in the season handles more of the problem kids.
Belly rolls - used to get these in college when you showed up late for a meeting. Always had to do it Friday morning for some reason (after "college night" on Thursday night...ouch).
Kid lays flat on the ground and rolls over and over for 50 -75 yards.....real pain in the butt.
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldog on Dec 6, 2005 15:55:36 GMT -6
I was in the Marines and I use some of the things I experienced. The first change we made was to the 'up-downs'. I found that too many of the out-of-shape kids cheated and didn't get much out of them. So, we use what the Marines call 'Bend and MF'ing Thrusts'. They start standing and on the first count they squat and place their palms on the gound outside the knees. On the second count they kick their feet out to a pushup position. On the third count they do a pushup (you can place an extra count here and make them hold the pushup in the down position). Fourth count they hop back to the squat position. The final count is to stand. Some call these burpees or Squat Bends. We use these for most of our discipline issues.
The Marines are very good at team building. Anyone who has seen Full Metal Jacket knows some of the things they used. Not all are 'positive'. For example, if we had a kid who bucks the team and does not respond to individual encouragement, we might not punish him. Instead, we punish the team. Take the offending kid and place him in the center of a circle of his teammates. Put him in a lounge chair and let him put his feet up. Then make him call the cadence while his teammates perform Bends and Thrusts. After each 10 or so, remind the team why they are being punished. Peer pressure can work wonders.
Other things we did for team building that could be adapted:
- Obstacle Course (monkey bars, ladders, etc). Not a difficult course, but we competed either squad vs squad or platoon vs. platoon.
- Confidence Course (much more difficult course including free climb ropes, log ladder that increased distance between rungs the higher you climb). Almost always done in competition
- Bridge over Troubled Waters (one-on-one competition using pugil sticks)
- Drill Instructors vs. platoon (created a us vs. them mentality which forced us to create closeness)
- Small teams (they broke down squads into small units 4-5 guys who then competed for small favors such as exra shower time or no fire watch).
- Interchangeable leaders (the DI's changed the Guide (platoon leader) and Squad Leaders constantly. Most guys didn't lead due to the platoon size - 120 or so - but many had the chance to lead. The platoon realized that everyone is interchangeable and we were all leaders).
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldog on Dec 6, 2005 15:58:19 GMT -6
Senator Bluto, can you explain your Powers in a little more detail? I'm having trouble visualizing the exercises.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on Dec 6, 2005 16:14:56 GMT -6
we don't call it punishment either. have 'reminders' and "do-rights".
|
|
|
|
Post by toprowguy on Dec 6, 2005 16:27:01 GMT -6
Call it what you want but what you are doing is a "physical consequence" for a player action (being late, skipping practice). I think a lot of people (parents and Admin.) would have a problem with it.
I have no problem with it as a parent and a coach but I think we have to be careful on what we do and how we do it especially if it is an indivdual basis.
I like the TEAM aspect of it. Hold everyone accountable.
|
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 6, 2005 16:38:53 GMT -6
Senator Bluto, can you explain your Powers in a little more detail? I'm having trouble visualizing the exercises.
Sorry I was unclear...at one point I was an English teacher (I guess that's why we need no child left behind...)
Anyway, everyone is in a circle- from one end of the gym to the other (on the field about 30-40 yds... you want some room between players). Every "component" is 15 seconds long. On the whistle they immediately go to the next part. (ex: knee Tucks - whistle - Spread Eagle- whistle- Scissors...etc.) The first three 15 second exercises are all vertical jump exercises:
1. Knee tucks- jump up and grab your knees
2. Spread Eagle- jump up, feet out like a "spread eagle" ski jump (Colorado native... that's how I think of it)- land with feet together
3. Scissors- Similar to spread eagle, but jump and extend rt. leg forward, left leg back, land with feet together. Alternate and repeat.
4,5 Drop to the ground- Pushups and situps... should be self-explanatory
6. Sprints- we have a pre-designated direction- everyone sprints in that direction (must stay outside court, cones, etc.)
If everyone goes hard, it counts. If not it doesn't.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Dec 6, 2005 16:47:51 GMT -6
Call it what you want but what you are doing is a "physical consequence" for a player action (being late, skipping practice). I think a lot of people (parents and Admin.) would have a problem with it. I have no problem with it as a parent and a coach but I think we have to be careful on what we do and how we do it especially if it is an indivdual basis. I like the TEAM aspect of it. Hold everyone accountable. if one is concerned what parents think, one better let the parents start running the team. the only physical punishment I give is for personal fouls. the rest is made by the kids. I let the kids decide what is the proper punishment for the offense. they typically are harder. then, the offense with the punishment is listed, sent to each parent and a signed copy comes back to me. if a parent balks about it, they are their kids will not play until it is signed. you as a coach have the right(heldup in the court system) to decide what the rules are. if a parent complains, I refer them to their copy of the rules, which they have signed. if they have chosen not to read the fine print and just signed it, that is their problem. I have a legal document, recognized in a court of law. it is a contract of behavior. failure to meet the contract, can result in lack of playing time, suspension and or dismissal from the team. I have a lawyer draw me up one every year. you have to figure administrators are spineless. not sure about your state, but a administrator in my state makes a considerable amount of money. super's make 6 figures in my state. my principal makes $98,000. they are not going to stick their neck out for you. one has to accept that. they would rather let a coach go, the to standup for what is right. getting let go as a administrator is a kiss of death. you will not get a job for the most part. if I get fired from coaching, big deal. there is always another school in my city looking for a coach. I would rather be fired for standing up for what is right, then to give in and go with the flow. that is what a lot of todays problems are. no one wants to standup for what is right. from our elected officals on downward. leadership means standing out from the crowd. one should always be the point of the triangle. a old coach told me once, every year you make 2-3 enemies so over time, those that do not like you tend to grow. |
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 6, 2005 16:47:52 GMT -6
Call it what you want but what you are doing is a "physical consequence" for a player action (being late, skipping practice). I think a lot of people (parents and Admin.) would have a problem with it.
Just a few thoughts here... First, we don't call it punishment either- we call it make up conditioning or OPIs (opportunities for personal improvement). Second no one HAS to play football; it is not a graduation requirement, Third, I meet with the parents before the season and explain all of this- that doesn't mean I have no phone calls, but it does mean they know I will not bend on any of these issues. Fourth, I am part of the administration... that certainly helps. I would not stay any place that didn't understand the value or importance of discipline... the players know I do this because I care about them... it is a lot easier to just be a "nice guy" and leave them alone- but it doesn't make our team better- and it doesn't make the person better.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Dec 6, 2005 20:27:16 GMT -6
I say give the parents a clue by spelling it out in the parent and player contract...i dont hide "bellies" from teh parents, they know about them and learn to appreciate them. they know if their kid acts up in school and i hear about it, they get bellies...its a way to keep the kids in line and keep them in shape when they get out of line. i tell my kids all the time, we can be disciplined and smart or we can be in great shape...they get the message. football isnt for everyone, my programs have never been for everyone but i have always had more numbers than anyone else at the same school....so whos right?
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Dec 6, 2005 21:53:42 GMT -6
I say give the parents a clue by spelling it out in the parent and player contract...i dont hide "bellies" from teh parents, they know about them and learn to appreciate them. they know if their kid acts up in school and i hear about it, they get bellies...its a way to keep the kids in line and keep them in shape when they get out of line. i tell my kids all the time, we can be disciplined and smart or we can be in great shape...they get the message. football isnt for everyone, my programs have never been for everyone but i have always had more numbers than anyone else at the same school....so whos right? no group hugs from you. what is the world coming to. lol |
|
|
|
Post by brophy on Dec 7, 2005 9:29:56 GMT -6
So, we use what the Marines call 'Bend and MF'ing Thrusts'. OH GAWD....squat thrusts are killers! Yikes! You don't mess around!  |
|
rugger
Freshmen Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by rugger on Dec 7, 2005 14:29:33 GMT -6
Mine are called "whistle drills". Players have to do increments of 100yds, usually 200yds is plenty. There are 3 different whistles. One whistle is a forwards role. Two whistles is a backwards role. Three whistles is a log roll. On the log rolls, they continue to roll until I give them another whistle. In between each type of roll they run till I give them another whistle command. If they mess up on the whistle commands they start over. The smart ones figure out that if they sprint between whistles they can cover more ground, and rest while waiting for the others. Now for the fun part. If you have kids that keep mouthing you can backwards roll them. Let them run about 15yds, backwards roll em 12, repeat as needed. This quickly stops their whining. Really entertaining when they get close to the goal line. Had one kid dive for the endzone to get done.
|
|
|
|
Post by knight9299 on Dec 7, 2005 14:51:49 GMT -6
[quote author=airman board=general thread=1133821772 post=1133909271
I would rather be fired for standing up for what is right, then to give in and go with the flow. that is what a lot of todays problems are. no one wants to standup for what is right. from our elected officals on downward.
leadership means standing out from the crowd. one should always be the point of the triangle.
[/quote]
Been there, done that. And I'm fairly young. As for consequences for rule breakers 100 yard bear crawls always do the trick. In college it was 100 yards for every minute you were late
|
|
