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Post by gatorball on Jul 3, 2007 11:06:22 GMT -6
We do it with WR's and backs and the defense. Does anyone flip flop the o line. No left side or right side, but a 3 man or strong side with a 2 man or weak side.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 3, 2007 11:19:23 GMT -6
Yes I think this is pretty common, especially with Wing-T teams. I know some of the Wing-T systems identify the holes with the players, not gaps (or they number the players, and not holes) So if "Tom" is the weakside tackle, Belly would always be run behind Tom, regardless of he is lined up on the left or the right. , Down always to "Bill" , who is the the strongside tackle , "Chuck" The weakside guard, always pulls on trap, regardless if he is on the left or right...
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Post by coachjaz on Jul 3, 2007 12:08:24 GMT -6
A good number of teams who use 1 TE sets almost exclusively, will flip flop their line. Some SBV teams do. I have worked at a Wing-T school who did so.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 3, 2007 12:37:17 GMT -6
We've done it both ways and we're doing it right now, primarily to protect a "weaker" backside tackle. We're a full flow team (Fly sweep) and the only backside plays our tackle has to be strong on are the backside dive - which we call when he's seeing a 5 tech - and speed option where he combos and moves to 2nd level.
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Post by kboyd on Jul 3, 2007 14:04:34 GMT -6
We did in college - ran a strong side (TE side) and a quick side. It worked well for us although I'm not sure of the rationale behind it. JD was an OL coach there, maybe he could shed some light on it.
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Post by wingman on Jul 3, 2007 14:51:29 GMT -6
We do both and also move guys around. Put 2 better athletes on backside of counter trey. Obviously we also do it on plays where it doesn't mean anything ( fly sweep to them also ). No one tries to adjust when we do it because of the above and we use a very fast pace offense. We couldn't do this if we weren't platooned in the line.
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Post by tog on Jul 3, 2007 15:06:51 GMT -6
have done both
i don't like it for 2 main reasons
1. you lose depth---if your quick tackle gets hurt, you might have your 11th best guy in to replace him as the strongside guys don't know the plays from that spot
2. there are some tendencies that defenses can get on it
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Post by tog on Jul 3, 2007 15:08:29 GMT -6
i can see places and schemes it would be awesome for
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ex-centralcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@marcmarinelli ] [F4:marcmarinelli]
Posts: 384
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Post by ex-centralcoach on Jul 3, 2007 15:53:14 GMT -6
Coaches,
We have a Big Side and a Quick Side. In normal (95% of the time) situations our Y always aligns to the big side. Through self-scouting we realizied we do have some tend. on what we run to either the quick or big side. One thing that helped us is we really focus on breaking the huddle and getting to the line in less then 5 seconds. And our cadence is Ready....Go. Which can put a defense in a bind if they start to adjust to where our big side is our or quick side.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 3, 2007 19:55:05 GMT -6
The last few years we have had a strong and quick side of the line. We are unbalanced almost 100% of the time, so we get some personnel advantages that way (best puller is Stg. G, etc.).
I understand Tog's point of view- especially re: depth. We do move some guys around though (so out #2 SG might be our #1 ST). basically, in our scheme, we can hide 1 bad guy and 1 slow guy... so we have to take advantage of it where we can. In the past, we seemed to have more of a tendency when we did not flip the OL. If we had one guy that was a much better trap blocker, in crunch time, he would trap- the other guy would do it on 2nd and 1 or if we were ahead by 30.
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Post by phantom on Jul 3, 2007 20:25:35 GMT -6
have done both i don't like it for 2 main reasons 1. you lose depth---if your quick tackle gets hurt, you might have your 11th best guy in to replace him as the strongside guys don't know the plays from that spot 2. there are some tendencies that defenses can get on it We flipped for a while and stopped mainly for the first reason. Our third tackle needed to learn both tackle positions which defeated the purpose. |
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Post by wingman on Jul 4, 2007 14:55:18 GMT -6
If you do flip, backups have to work both sides. Also 95 % of our plays go both sides so guards know both veer to them and away from them, iso to them and away from them etc. so they know all the blocking even if they have to go from strong to weak. We've done both and flipping hasn't caused one problem yet. A bigger issue for us is losing a center. Bad exchanges in practice and game screw up everything especially continuity. We try to work 3 centers at least some.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 4, 2007 15:11:56 GMT -6
Wingman---then why flip flop? I was under the impression that the most common reason to flip flop was so that the kids only had to learn ONE set of rules.
I guess if you had particular traits you wanted to see in different sides, that would be a reason to flip, but is ANYONE that deep at ANY level that they can be picky about their backup ups too?
As far as tendencies, you are always going to have them if you flip-flop your line...in fact, that is the very reason you ARE flip flopping your line right? You want the guys to just have to learn and execute one set of schemes (and not the backside of schemes). So the same guard will always pull on trap, you will always run belly behind the same tackle, etc etc. Right?
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 4, 2007 15:40:04 GMT -6
ive never flipped flopped guys by knowing a certain side, only some plays guys might pull or do something better and then i will moce them around on certain plays to utilize everyones strengths
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Post by wingman on Jul 4, 2007 23:19:35 GMT -6
We flip floped so that we could always put the stud OT on what ever side we wanted. If we were running fly or rocket and wanted to pull him, we could always put the TE into the sideline and the WT (stud) wouldbe pulling to field. If you don't flip you can only do that 1/2 the time. Plus if I want my stud Guard on your weak sister DT I can do it every play. If I didn't flip and my guy was a RG and your DT played left side, that couldn't happen. We didn't do it to reduce teaching. As I said I don't know how that works. Both guards trap etc but because we flip I can have both of those guatrds trap your weaker DT. We run almost everything ( Midline, Veer, OV, Iso,Trap etc to strong and weak so they all know those plays on their side and to the away side. Maybe 10 % only go one side ( BElly Down and OV ) Thus, we've had the advantage of flipping and never had a problem when the ST had to become a WT etc.
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Post by coachjd on Jul 5, 2007 4:41:39 GMT -6
like kboyd said, we did this at the college level. We had 2 reasons of doing this. One was personnel. We had 2 types of guards, one like kboyd who could drive block a MACK truck and another who could move and pull. We had a very athletic offensive tackle and another road grader type tackle. So we put the 2 drive blockers on the strong side and the 2 athletes on the quickside. We ran a lot of ISO, Power, Counter, Toss.
The 2nd reason was scheme. We felt that they only had to know the play one way. They did not have to learn the scheme when the ball was ran on strong or weak vs all the different fronts we would see.
My first 8 of my 9 years of high school coaching we flipped OL, but now that we are a full boat zone team there is really no need to flip the OL.
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coachg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 119
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Post by coachg on Jul 6, 2007 13:38:21 GMT -6
Ive won alot of games flip flopping the OL. My suggestion is if your spread and dont have a TE much you should just stay right and left. If you are a running team with a tight end I would flip flop becasue its like someone said above you can put your road graders on one side and your quick guys on the other and move them around. It wouldnt show tendency any more then flipping a Tight end would.
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