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Post by pantherpride91 on Nov 26, 2007 9:20:30 GMT -6
I was wondering what a lot of people use as far as the number of formations.
Where I went to school we were very good at formationing people to death. We were a Flexbone based triple option team. But we would run the triple out of about 12 or 13 formations. We would also run lead or simple dives out of all those formations as well.
The school I am at now is very heavy in the Pro I. We have very few formations and therefore very little adjustment is needed by teams to line up against us. When we did get out of the Pro I we were very specific with the plays we were running. By the end of the year teams were calling out our play before we ran it. Now, if we are just better than the other team it is ok, but if we run into a team that can handle us we are in trouble. I am trying to talk to him about taking guys out of the box and expanding the formation tree a little bit.
What are your guys thought?
I have also been told that one way to exploit a superior team is to try and get them to think. If we use different formations but still run all the same plays out of them it is one way to get them thinking
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 26, 2007 9:38:55 GMT -6
I-Right
I-Right Tight
I-Left
I-Left Tight
T
Shotgun (Mainly for 3rd an long or two minute)
Basically, we run two primary formations. I and T. We will though do a lot of motioning which creates numerous looks.
But your question is more on the level of being easy to scout
The Key is: No matter what plays you run, you always need a counter for it. Any play is only as good as the play it sets up, or the play it was set up by. (Think Lombardi said that)
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Nov 26, 2007 10:30:42 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]More successful seasons:[/glow]
A few plays (outside zone, inside zone, counter, Playaction)
Maybe 8-10 formations throughout a game
I personally like to adjust only 1-2 players (H and Z) in most formations. If you have the ability using personnel packages with set rules help to vary the formations without having to tag it-
Example
When bringing in 11 personnel, my W receiver's base alignment rule is to split difference- minimum of 3 yards from nearest down lineman...
Formation: Deuce Personnel: 21
---X----------------O-O-O-O-O-Y----------------------
-------------------H------Q--------------------Z---------
---------------------------A------------------------------
Formation: Deuce Personnel: 11 (3rd WR in)
---X----------------O-O-O-O-O-Y----------------------
------------H-------------Q--------------------Z---------
---------------------------A------------------------------
Another example would be:
Formation: Trey Personnel: 21
---X----------------O-O-O-O-O-Y----------------------
--------------------------Q---------H----------Z---------
---------------------------A------------------------------
Formation: Trey Personnel: 11 (3rd WR in)
---X----------------O-O-O-O-O-Y----------------------
--------------------------Q--------------H--------Z------
---------------------------A------------------------------
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Post by airraider on Nov 26, 2007 11:15:04 GMT -6
I use probably around 12 or so "base" formations with different variations such as End Over.. Tight.. Loose.. Each formation can also be tagged as under center, regular gun, or deep gun..
So I guess all in all.. we could show 40 or so different looking formations..
But.. we are pretty basic on what we do out of each formation..
we are going to run the jet and the draw.. and have the ability to run a few plays off of the Jet fake..
in the passing game we are going to spint out with the flood.. and run other 2 and 3 level combos to the sprint with trail routes backside..
We are also going to run around 5 or 6 combo patterns that are commmon to most teams..
Make it look different.. but keep the teaching the same.. thats the best way to do it..
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 26, 2007 11:22:47 GMT -6
I use probably around 12 or so "base" formations with different variations such as End Over.. Tight.. Loose.. Each formation can also be tagged as under center, regular gun, or deep gun.. I agree with this philosophy--have the kids learn 8 or 10 or so basic formations, and then use tags to modify those formations into whatever else you want. I have about 8 basic formations, and then a dozen or so modifiers. |
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Post by pantherpride91 on Nov 26, 2007 11:25:53 GMT -6
I use probably around 12 or so "base" formations with different variations such as End Over.. Tight.. Loose.. Each formation can also be tagged as under center, regular gun, or deep gun.. So I guess all in all.. we could show 40 or so different looking formations.. But.. we are pretty basic on what we do out of each formation.. we are going to run the jet and the draw.. and have the ability to run a few plays off of the Jet fake.. in the passing game we are going to spint out with the flood.. and run other 2 and 3 level combos to the sprint with trail routes backside.. We are also going to run around 5 or 6 combo patterns that are commmon to most teams.. Make it look different.. but keep the teaching the same.. thats the best way to do it.. That is kind of what I am saying... I am attempting to put together a playbook right now for interview and later possibly HC jobs and I am thinking if we can keep the teaching to a minimum and have 5 or 6 concepts but 20 different formations than we can have essentially 100 to 120 plays out of teaching 5 or 6 things..... |
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Post by pantherpride91 on Nov 26, 2007 11:27:51 GMT -6
I use probably around 12 or so "base" formations with different variations such as End Over.. Tight.. Loose.. Each formation can also be tagged as under center, regular gun, or deep gun.. I agree with this philosophy--have the kids learn 8 or 10 or so basic formations, and then use tags to modify those formations into whatever else you want. I have about 8 basic formations, and then a dozen or so modifiers. can you guys explain a little more what you mean by modifiers....are you basically just talking about moving around the formation on the field? |
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 26, 2007 11:40:45 GMT -6
I agree with this philosophy--have the kids learn 8 or 10 or so basic formations, and then use tags to modify those formations into whatever else you want. I have about 8 basic formations, and then a dozen or so modifiers. can you guys explain a little more what you mean by modifiers....are you basically just talking about moving around the formation on the field? Start with a basic formation: Trips Right Y-O-O-C-O-O-----------------------------------X -------Q------H----------------Z --------- -------F Now I can change locations of players with certain tags. Trips Right "Flex" widens the Y: Y-----------O-O-C-O-O-----------------------------------X -----------------Q------H----------------Z ------------------- -----------------F "Wide" Trips Right flexes both sides of the formation: Y-----------O-O-C-O-O------------------------------------------X -----------------Q----------------H----------------Z ------------------- -----------------F "Stack" Trips Right: Y-O-O-C-O-O------------------X -------Q-----------------------Z -------------------------------H -------F Just a few examples. If you want more, just ask. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 26, 2007 11:42:37 GMT -6
I agree with this philosophy--have the kids learn 8 or 10 or so basic formations, and then use tags to modify those formations into whatever else you want. I have about 8 basic formations, and then a dozen or so modifiers. can you guys explain a little more what you mean by modifiers....are you basically just talking about moving around the formation on the field? Our "Bunch Right" Has a bunch to the right at about 10 yards from the tackle with a SE backside.. and a Back in the bacfield opposite the Bunch.. We can tag that with the following TB - Tight Bunch.. just moves the bunch in about 1.5 yards off the tackle. TBO - Tight Bunch Over.. just brings the split end over to the right and puts him out wide.. BO - Bunch Over.. same as TBO.. just regular 10 yards for the bunch LB - Loose Bunch.. Bunch will align on or around the numbers.. or past the numbers if to the boundry.. LBO - Loose Bunch Over.. you get the idea.. Bunch Empty - Tells the back to align in the weak slot.. TBO Empty - You get it.. BO Empty - you get it.. LB Empty - yea.. same. LBO Empty - yep.. Thats 9 different formations that are all off of a simple thing that we do.. just requires the movement over 1 or 2 players.. but we can run all of our basic stuff from this.. our basic rules will tell the different players what to do based on where they are in the formation.. |
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Nov 26, 2007 12:36:23 GMT -6
I was wondering what a lot of people use as far as the number of formations. Coach: I use four or five, but I convince my kids that they are only minor variations of the base formation -- fools 'em every time.  |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Nov 26, 2007 13:38:20 GMT -6
I agree with this philosophy--have the kids learn 8 or 10 or so basic formations, and then use tags to modify those formations into whatever else you want. I have about 8 basic formations, and then a dozen or so modifiers. can you guys explain a little more what you mean by modifiers....are you basically just talking about moving around the formation on the field? Modifiers will take a base formation and vary it. For example: I RT and I Rt "Open" (TE splits the difference between tackle and Flanker)..."OPEN" is the modifier CAUTION- You can modify your stuff so much that it will confuse you and the kids... My general rule is: 1) If the formation is used a lot (more than once/twice a game) and 2) It has more than three modifiers then it needs it's own name Instead of saying Deuce Rt Open Slot, we changed it to Vegas Rt I Rt Tight Wing became King Rt |
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 26, 2007 13:58:30 GMT -6
My general rule is: 1) If the formation is used a lot (more than once/twice a game) and 2) It has more than three modifiers then it needs it's own name I agree. My general rule is more than two modifiers gets its own name. |
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Post by coachbw on Nov 26, 2007 16:04:59 GMT -6
We have 4 base formations. (Pro, Slot, Doubles, Trips). From each of those we can offset a back strong and weak. We can make our H back a wing to the strong or week side. We can move our TE to the other side and be unbalanced or we can flex him. We can bunch our receivers as well. We can also call any combination of these tags. I think there is something like 125 formations in our package that we could call on the spot and our kids would know how to line up in. That being said, there are 24 that we feel give us a distinct advantage by alignment and we run most of our stuff out of those.
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