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Post by wildcat on Apr 29, 2007 8:49:46 GMT -6
I know most of you guys have players who have Myspace pages. I think this story is something that kids and certainly their parents should read. This is pretty good proof that potential employers do check into an applicant's background and if that applicant has a Myspace page with questionable content, it could be the difference between getting a position or not getting a position.
From Fox News
Would-Be Teacher Denied Degree Over 'Drunken Pirate' MySpace Photo Sues University
Saturday , April 28, 2007
A woman denied a teaching degree on the eve of graduation because of a MySpace photo has sued the university.
Millersville University instead granted Stacy Snyder a degree in English last year after learning of the Web-published picture of her, which bore the caption "Drunken Pirate."
Snyder received "superior" or "competent" ratings on her final student-teacher evaluation in all areas except "professionalism," in which she was labeled "unsatisfactory," according to the suit filed Wednesday.
"I dreamed about being a teacher for a long time," said Snyder, 27, of Strasburg, who has two young sons. She now works as a nanny.
The photo, taken at a 2005 Halloween party, shows Snyder wearing a pirate hat while drinking from a plastic "Mr. Goodbar" cup. It was posted on her own MySpace site.
"There were errors in judgment that relate to Pennsylvania's Code of Professional Practice and Conduct for Educators," wrote professor J. Barry Girvin, who supervised Snyder's work, according to the suit.
Snyder did her student-teaching at Conestoga Valley High School in 2006. Conestoga Valley officials told the college they would stop accepting student-teachers from Millersville if she went unpunished, the lawsuit said.
Although Snyder apologized, she learned on May 12 — the day before graduation — that she would not be awarded an education degree or teaching certificate.
Jane S. Bray, dean of the School of Education, in a meeting that day accused Snyder of promoting underage drinking, the suit states.
The federal lawsuit — filed against the university, Bray, Girvin and Provost Vilas A. Prabhu — seeks at least $75,000 in damages. Millersville spokeswoman Janet Kacskos referred questions to a state System of Higher Education spokesman, who declined comment.
"The bottom line is we want the college to bestow the degree and teaching certificate that Stacy earned during four years of hard work and sacrifice," said Snyder's lawyer, Mark W. Voigt.
News Corp., which operates FOXNews.com, is the parent company of MySpace.
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Post by coachcalande on Apr 29, 2007 8:54:02 GMT -6
I saw that...amazing. she is suing I believe...btw, being married, I often have to watch "oprah" or "dr phil" when I get home from work...there was a principal who recently had a big law suit against a number of her students who abused her on my space...the internet is truly both good and evil.
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 29, 2007 8:54:10 GMT -6
I don't understand why they held her degree. Is it because she was drinking or because she posted pictures of it?
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Post by wildcat on Apr 29, 2007 9:02:52 GMT -6
I don't understand why they held her degree. Is it because she was drinking or because she posted pictures of it? My guess is because she posted pictures of it. Right or wrong, this is the way it is. People have to understand that if they engage in behavior that decisionmakers may consider questionable, it might come back to haunt them. I'll tell you what...if I was a principal and interviewed this person for a teaching position where she was going to be around kids, I would have some pretty serious questions about her character if I saw a photo like this on her own Myspace page. |
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Post by airraider on Apr 29, 2007 9:59:04 GMT -6
I saw that...amazing. she is suing I believe...btw, being married, I often have to watch "oprah" or "dr phil" when I get home from work...there was a principal who recently had a big law suit against a number of her students who abused her on my space...the internet is truly both good and evil. Our starting center, one of the best character players on the team, was recently arrested and expelled from our school due to a myspace incident. A friend was over at his house and on his computer. He created a myspace page in the name of our principal. He photoshoped her face onto nude pictures and posted them on there. Our center new he was doing it, but did not particpate in making the site. They both were arrested and charged with internet stalking. Our center was forced to attend a different school to finish out the year. He is expected to be able to come back next year for his senior year. The biggest reason all this blew up so big was that the Principal's husband is a detective on the police department here in town. I want to say the charges were felonies. |
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Post by Yash on Apr 29, 2007 10:11:06 GMT -6
I hate seeing kids posting all of those pictures on there, and it seems like every other picture has alcohol in the picture and you know the kids aren't over 21. I'm about to be a college kid myself here in a few months, and I have a facebook (similiar to myspace) but I don't post any pictures that I'd regret or wouldn't show my kids someday. I don't drink, so that keeps others from taking embarrassing pictures of me. I don't think kids understand how much a picture really can be held against you.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 29, 2007 10:14:55 GMT -6
Wow, she'll win the lawsuit too; as long as she's 21 years old, she wasn't doing anything wrong. Assuming all they have on her is some pics of her drinking.
She should've been smart enough not to post those kinds of pictures on myspace, but it's certainly not going to warrant not giving her an education degree.
However, I am wondering what kinds of issues got her low scores on her professionalism rating. There may be some other things floating around that we don't know.
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Post by wildcat on Apr 29, 2007 10:40:17 GMT -6
Wow, she'll win the lawsuit too; as long as she's 21 years old, she wasn't doing anything wrong. Assuming all they have on her is some pics of her drinking. She should've been smart enough not to post those kinds of pictures on myspace, but it's certainly not going to warrant not giving her an education degree. However, I am wondering what kinds of issues got her low scores on her professionalism rating. There may be some other things floating around that we don't know. Coach - I tend to agree with you...IMO, it was a pretty excessive punishment for what was, at worst, an example of bad judgement. My guess is that some kind of a compromise will be worked out. |
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Post by shotgun321 on Apr 29, 2007 10:47:17 GMT -6
There are teachers who have done a lot worse than put up a picture that says drunken pirate on it.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 29, 2007 11:02:30 GMT -6
If she does lose the case, then the school had better be ready to refund a good chunk of her tuition; at least for student teaching.
Personally, this kind of stuff makes me angry. If any school district even thinks about getting after me for participating in legal, adult behavior, they're going to be out a coach and a teacher. I don't drink much, but if a school ever refers to my private life as "contributing to underage drinking", then they're in for a rude awakening.
IMO, there's something else going on in the background in this situation. I'm willing to bet she allowed some of her students to be "friends" on her page and then communicated with them over myspace.
Darndest thing; I'm coaching then throws this year and the staff and I had this same conversation. The distance coach has had several boys request to be added as friends on her page and she turned them down. She doesn't have anything questionable on her page but there was no way she was going to communicate with them in that manner.
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 29, 2007 11:11:01 GMT -6
She made a choice to post the picture. That in itself tells soemthing about her maturity. For me, as an administrator, it's not the drinking part that raises a red flag about her certificate or hiring her. It's the fact that she felt the need to flaunt it publically. Not a bright thing to do for a young professional.
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Post by brophy on Apr 29, 2007 11:13:15 GMT -6
She made a choice to post the picture. That in itself tells soemthing about her maturity. For me, as an administrator, it's not the drinking part that raises a red flag about her certificate or hiring her. It's the fact that she felt the need to flaunt it publically. Not a bright thing to do for a young professional. word. "Information Age" .....everyone can control the information that is out there. ...btw, being married, I often have to watch "oprah" or "dr phil" when I get home from work.... sure, Steve....blame the wife....we all know you are having her Tivo Maury Povich for you. |
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Post by wildcat on Apr 29, 2007 11:19:49 GMT -6
She made a choice to post the picture. That in itself tells soemthing about her maturity. For me, as an administrator, it's not the drinking part that raises a red flag about her certificate or hiring her. It's the fact that she felt the need to flaunt it publically. Not a bright thing to do for a young professional. ESPECIALLY one who is going to be around kids...definitely sends up a warning flare. Heck, considering all of the highly publicized cases of female teachers taking liberties with male students...not a smart move at all. With that being said, I still think it is pretty excessive to withhold her teaching degree...that is what she went to school for, she needs that piece of paper to do what she was trained to do. Bad judgment...yes. Possible charactor flaws...yes. But this was not illegal. Heck...if denying a student college credit for dumb things they do was around when I was in school, I wouldn't have lasted more than a month on campus! |
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Post by airman on Apr 29, 2007 11:34:52 GMT -6
i really think the younger generation is so starved for attension from their helicopter parents( who have flown in an out of their childrens lives) that this is why they feel the need to take pictures and post them. it is an attension grabber. this is my take on the whole myspace and utube or facebook.
i fail to understand why they did not give her the teacher lic.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 29, 2007 11:41:36 GMT -6
I agree that posting the picture was stupid, but as wildcat said, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Unless she did something severely illegal, they shouldn't withhold her license.
Bottom line is pretty cut and dry; what ever she did that warranted the high school's wrath will stay with her if she chooses to teach. If she does end up with her certificate, she'll still have a heckuva time finding a job when no one will vouch for her or fill out letter's of reccomendation for her. Plus, now that this has hit the media like a ton of bricks, she's going to have some explaining to do. We all know the way people talk in this industry; word of mouth will be more than enough punishment.
Having bad marks under "professionalism" is bad news for a teacher; this will follow her around for awhile.
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Post by poweriguy on Apr 29, 2007 13:43:41 GMT -6
I work on the internet for a living, and I am really surprised at how much personal info people willing give out on myspace. People don't realize that stuff can literally float around the net forever.
Like this gal that got denied the teaching cert. What if someone right click/save that pic of her, or took a screen shot of the page? Scary thought. That pic could possibly follow her around the rest of here career.
So guys, don't post stuff on the net about yourself, unless it is really necessary!
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Post by ajreaper on Apr 29, 2007 13:48:56 GMT -6
How many other professionals would be certified and employed if this standard was applied to them? She was an adult participating in a legal activity and posted a pic on the internet- not smart but legal. How many of the students who attend the high school she student taught at have My space accounts with clearly illegal activity being shown? And how has the school disciplined them? It's nothing more then tight asses trying to push their morals on others- she was drunk at a party not at work.
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 29, 2007 13:58:35 GMT -6
Don't want to start something here but at our school - Christian school in South Florida and I'm the Dean of Students - we do hold our students accountable for their MySpace content. As far as our teachers, we are also held to a high standard as role models. Now if I go down to the local Rib Shack and have 3 or 4 beers with my staff, or my principal, and some parent calls to complain about it I'm not going to get fired. But if I put on my Drunken Coaches Hat and then do so in front of the students who I'm supposed to be mentoring, I would expect to find myself looking for another job. Thats just the way it is.
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Post by phantom on Apr 29, 2007 14:13:31 GMT -6
Don't want to start something here but at our school - Christian school in South Florida and I'm the Dean of Students - we do hold our students accountable for their MySpace content. As far as our teachers, we are also held to a high standard as role models. Now if I go down to the local Rib Shack and have 3 or 4 beers with my staff, or my principal, and some parent calls to complain about it I'm not going to get fired. But if I put on my Drunken Coaches Hat and then do so in front of the students who I'm supposed to be mentoring, I would expect to find myself looking for another job. Thats just the way it is. Thats fine, especially because you're at a Christian school. All schools have the option of hiring whoever they want. Denying a teaching certificate is draconian, though. If she met the requirements for the certificate then she should be certified. After that it's up to individual districts to decide whether to hire her or not. There's more here than meets the eye, though (isn't there always?). Did they tell her to take down the photo? Did she refuse? As others have mentioned, did she have students among her Myspace friends? If so, how did she interact with them on the site? At school? Did she take a lot of "sick" days with hangovers? Did she joke about it with kids? With staff? On the surface, it seems like the college overreacted and they may well have. There are a lot of variables, though. |
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Post by wingtol on Apr 29, 2007 14:28:37 GMT -6
First off if you are over the age of 21-22 and have a myspace account you should prob rethink that idea. I also agree that there is nothing illegal about being stupid and posting a drunk picture of yourself, not very smart but still legal. I am sure there has to be something else in the situation to withhold a degree for a picture doesn't make sense.
I know several college coaches who have come in to talk to our kids usually ask in the first minute do you have a myspace page, when they answeed yes the coach said take it down now. Like poweriguy said people have no idea that basically what you post on the net can be out there forever. Have to be real careful what you put out there now a days.
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 29, 2007 14:29:03 GMT -6
I agree that there is probably stuff that we don't know that figured into this, and I grudgingly agree that the college may be over-reacting. But I'm still having a hard time figuring out why she posted THAT picture, unless that is who she see's herself as.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 29, 2007 14:45:23 GMT -6
The problem with myspace and facebook is the ILLUSION of privacy. Many people forget that anyone can look you up and view your page. Even if you have your page set for private, it's not real tough for someone to view your page if they want to. You may not even be using your real name on there and yet som how, someone finds you. It's such a gigantic network, there's always the chance someone will stumble on to your page and see something they may not like. A couple weeks back, a friend of mine pulled had access to a private myspace page and showed several of us what was on there. The pictures on that page were nothing more than bad pornography, a lot of bad pornography....... "Private" or not, that stuff doesn't need to be posted.
I think that there's a lot more at work here, as I have stated before. However, I know that none of us know what the woman's intentions were when posting that picture. Maybe she thought she was posting a funny picture of her Halloween costume or maybe she was deliberately flaunting the fact that she's drinking.
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Post by toprowguy on Apr 29, 2007 16:12:12 GMT -6
Myspace can be used in a positive way if used correctly. It could be a very important tool for communicating because this is how this generation communicates. One of our former players put this site together. Check it out. www.myspace.com/easternvikingsfootball |
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 29, 2007 16:27:58 GMT -6
I don't think anyone is knocking MySpace. The questions seem to be did the college act reasonably in refusing to award the teaching degree and did the student act in a professional manner. One is debatable, the other (IMO) is not.
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Post by hoptions on Apr 29, 2007 22:46:08 GMT -6
While in college I was taking one of many education courses and our professor told us to be careful of such things. He actually used a case like this to get his point a crossed to us and he insisted that we not have sites like my space.
Then a few years latter while student teaching the staff was instructed to talk to the students about how sites like this can be and will be included in background checks. We were instructed to encourage the students to not take part in these sites and also to encourage the students to be very careful of what they post on such sites, if they already have one.
Hoptions
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Apr 30, 2007 0:01:46 GMT -6
Now I'm the last person who should be standing up for the college in this situation... given my checkered past ("seven years of college down the drain")... but colleges have a lot of responsibility in the certification process... in Nebraska- colleges make the determination regarding certification- that is, they make the recommendation and the Dept. of Ed. abides by that recommendation exclusively. (I'm not sure how it is in PA... anyone?)
Without knowing this teacher candidate or the situation... I find myself thinking about some of my players in the past (not many, but a few) who were gifted athletes and a pain to coach, a pain to work with... basically a criminal element and totally devoid of character. Now when the college recruiters came, I was honest. In fact, one recruiter ignored what I told him (about a guy we had kicked off the team as a junior... he rejoined the following year under the new coach when I returned to Nebraska) gave a problem player a scholarship- and that player played in no games and was arrested on a robbery charge. I felt bad about that, but was at least comforted in the fact that I did not give him a glowing recommendation and my reputation had not been damaged by the incident (self serving- maybe... but I think it helps all the "good kids" I have that I vouch for to recruiters).
In this case, I would like to think the college acted accordingly and felt a sense of responsibility to the certification process... maybe that is not the case, but I would not want to recommend someone for a job that requires a somewhat mainstream definition of ethical behavior if I did not believe they would be able to behave accordingly.
For what it is worth... an excerpt of Nebraska's code of professionalism:
Persons holding Nebraska public school certificates must conduct themselves in a professional manner. The privileges conferred are not absolute, but are conditional. Each certificate holder must maintain the standards required of a Nebraska school certificate holder, as outlined in Title 92, Nebraska Administrative Code, Chapter 27 (92 NAC 27) also known as Rule 27. The failure to maintain these standards may constitute grounds for discipline of the certificate holder ranging from a private admonishment to the revocation of an educator's certificate.
Rule 27 has been in place since the 20s... and is pretty conservative- especially for today.
We have kids on myspace all the time... we have kids post stuff that gets them in trouble...
the internet is truly both good and evil.
...other than this board... and a few football sites... and (some) e-mail... It is evil.
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Post by teachcoachwm on Apr 30, 2007 10:42:38 GMT -6
In a side note concerning myspace, we have had a highly recruited player get tagged with a gang affiliation by the local law enforcement because he let a buddy put a picture with gang signs and tats on his myspace....as a matter of fact ,because of this, a local law enforcement official identified our QB as a "known gang member" in front of a large crowd at a gang symposium in the community; this officer thought the picture on the myspace was of our kid
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 30, 2007 11:21:17 GMT -6
I am spending today talking to my classes about all of this today.
I start my school year spending two weeks on Character Education (www.charactercounts.org)
Situations like this, and personal experience screwing up, are being turned into, hopefully, positive experiences.
Every 10 minutes watching the NFL draft I heard the word "character"....character this, character that.
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Post by stud17 on May 1, 2007 14:49:43 GMT -6
so she dressed up, drank alcohol, and posted a picture of it on myspace? because of this, she isn't receiver her teaching license...you've got to be kidding me. nobody on this earth is perfect and no human being will ever be perfect. teachers are not saints and teachers should not have to act like saints. i bet the people withholding her degree will go to their homes at home and drink some alcohol and think its okay if they do it.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on May 1, 2007 15:35:55 GMT -6
so she dressed up, drank alcohol, and posted a picture of it on myspace? because of this, she isn't receiver her teaching license...you've got to be kidding me. nobody on this earth is perfect and no human being will ever be perfect. teachers are not saints and teachers should not have to act like saints.
I agree... with one exception which is what apparently got her in trouble... the fact that she flaunted it by sharing this experience on a daily basis with everyone. A lot of people drink... few will last in education if they party it up and discuss it with and promote it to their students... which is essentially what she is doing.
i bet the people withholding her degree will go to their homes at home and drink some alcohol and think its okay if they do it.
And doing that IS OK and nobody's darn business. But doing it in the middle of a public square on main street, or via the internet (where even more can see) is where there is a problem. In this case- the HOW is of more impact than the WHAT.
I am not for a repressive, Victorian society... but there are some things we do not need to openly share with others. That's just a personal (and today, a rather unpopular) stance.
Again there has got to be more to this story...
Conestoga Valley officials told the college they would stop accepting student-teachers from Millersville if she went unpunished, the lawsuit said.
I do not know if she was asked to remove the picture in order to get her license (which I would have suggested as her supervising professor). I do know that what she did was certainly not terrible... but it does send a pretty clear message- even if done so inadvertently. And in the age where teen substance (alcohol, drugs) abuse is a nationwide problem... it is tough to get a lot of support if you seemingly promote that abuse.
It is also an era of lawsuits (see the thread on the coach being sued), and if any of her students were in an accident involving alcohol, even a poor prosecuting attorney would have a field day with the picture... and the college who recommended her, the state that certified her, and the district that hired her.
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