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Post by mrsixx6 on Nov 14, 2007 8:41:40 GMT -6
Hey, we need to revamp after our early exit from the playoffs...figured we'd go his way- no practice, no hitting, none of that crap...hell, we can't do any of it anyway!!! Anyone remember that link??
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Post by cmow5 on Nov 14, 2007 8:43:35 GMT -6
I believe it was the HC at St. Johns. Can not remember his name.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Nov 14, 2007 8:44:32 GMT -6
John Gagliardi
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Post by hchscoachtom on Nov 14, 2007 13:53:07 GMT -6
Check out the book about him and his philosopy. "No-How Coaching- Strategies for winning in sports and business from the Coach who says "NO"" by Jim collison. Get it from Abebooks.com
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Post by dubber on Nov 14, 2007 13:55:57 GMT -6
He averages 200 kids on his roster..........there's plenty of talent to scoop out----------tons of gamers that turn it on on Saturdays dunno about this is as general philosphy......may be specific to his situation |
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Post by gunslinger on Nov 14, 2007 13:59:15 GMT -6
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Post by airman on Nov 14, 2007 14:07:32 GMT -6
Do not believe every thing you hear about Coach Gagliardi. He comes off as this nice, warm fuzzy guy. He is however a cut throat coach IMO. He coaches in a confrences where at least two of the schools could be beat my most usa tpday top 25 high school teams. his teams struggle against power run teams. I hope they get to play uw whitewater again.
He has some nice things but you also have to remember he is coaching at all boys schools and most of the kids who play are sons and grandsons of players he coached.
one thing I will say about not hitting is, your defense gets soft. I am a passing coach and I will tell you that a passing offense makes your defense soft from a hitting stand point. they are just do nto get the reps they need to be physcial. this is why a lot of your passing teams play a pressure style defnese. just a word to the wise on this no hitting.
amazon has it for 8 bucks used, 14 bucks new.
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Post by dhooper on Nov 14, 2007 16:29:22 GMT -6
airman,
I agree with what your saying. I don't know the coach you guys are talking about. But I agree with that the defense seems to get soft. I run a spread and I have to work a lot of hitting drills just to keep my defense physical. I run a 3-5-3 send a lot of people. We have to hit every day. I hate it because we're a small school but have to hit.
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Post by stud17 on Nov 14, 2007 17:13:35 GMT -6
Weak conference? Its also the conference with the 3rd best winning percentage in the national tournament in Division 3 football. Its the conference that consistently has 3 or 4 teams ranked in the D3football.com Top 25.
And you're comparing it to UW-Whitewater? How many D2 football teams are in Wisconsin? Now how many D2 schools are in Minnesota? If you grow up in WI and want to stay in WI, you either go D1 or D3. If you grow up in MN and want to stay in MN, you can either go D1, D2, or D3. So UW-Whitewater is getting D2-caliber kids that, if they were in MN, they would be going D2 and not D3.
If Gagliardi can use that philosophy and consistently win the conference, go to the national tournament, a lot of times make a run in the tournament, and be the winningest coach in all divisions, I'd say its a good philosophy.
And what two teams are you referring to in the MIAC that would lose to USA Today Top 25 High School teams?
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Post by sls on Nov 14, 2007 17:30:24 GMT -6
Doesn't Mike Grant uses the gagliardi system at Eden Prairie HS, they have been pretty successful.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Nov 14, 2007 20:47:13 GMT -6
Do not believe every thing you hear about Coach Gagliardi. He comes off as this nice, warm fuzzy guy. He is however a cut throat coach IMO. He coaches in a confrences where at least two of the schools could be beat my most usa tpday top 25 high school teams. his teams struggle against power run teams. I hope they get to play uw whitewater again. He has some nice things but you also have to remember he is coaching at all boys schools and most of the kids who play are sons and grandsons of players he coached. one thing I will say about not hitting is, your defense gets soft. I am a passing coach and I will tell you that a passing offense makes your defense soft from a hitting stand point. they are just do nto get the reps they need to be physcial. this is why a lot of your passing teams play a pressure style defnese. just a word to the wise on this no hitting. amazon has it for 8 bucks used, 14 bucks new. HE WINS--ENOUGH SAID |
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Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 15, 2007 0:57:17 GMT -6
Airman
Explain to me what your issue is with St Johns and John Gagliardi? Anytime him or his philosophy gets brought up you have something negative to say. Where does this come from?
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Post by ajreaper on Nov 15, 2007 9:08:28 GMT -6
Lots of ways to skin the cat- this works for him and his situation which does not make it the best way or the right way just his way.
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 15, 2007 10:47:27 GMT -6
Practicing with no hitting can only work will a team with suprerior talent. If a team is slow and half-ass on the field it's because practice tempo is half-ass.
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Post by Coach Huey on Nov 15, 2007 11:22:49 GMT -6
... If a team is slow and half-ass on the field it's because practice tempo is half-ass. would shy away from saying limited to no contact is half-ass tempo. tempo and contact are 2 different areas, imo |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 15, 2007 11:30:49 GMT -6
I'm talking about team time here. If you go half speed during team time thats how they begin playing in the game and it takes them time to adjust. I think you have to atleast go live once a week, twice at most though.
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Post by k on Nov 15, 2007 11:34:40 GMT -6
Nothing the kids hate more than a no hitting practice. I dont see how an entire season of no contact practices would work out... I had to stop doing no contact practices the day before game day because our turnout on those days was horrible.
As a player I wouldnt have played for a team where in practice there was no hitting. I hated practice in helmets and shorts the day before games so I can understand why my kids hated it... Sounds extremely boring to do that every day IMO.
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 15, 2007 11:39:09 GMT -6
There's alot of variables that come in to play. It's something that would change from team to team, year to year. Some teams might need more contact in practice others may not.
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Post by calicoachh on Nov 15, 2007 12:24:25 GMT -6
St. Johns is not no contact. they are in Shell for all practices. they do not tackle down to the ground. They don't have mandatory weight lifting because they have 150 guys out for thier program and if you don't lift on your own, someone else will and will then take your spot. they make a big deal about being nontraditional, but in the end of things they are a very very good football program because they have lots of numbers and very good coaching. I played four years against St. john's they all know how to hit.
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Post by airman on Nov 16, 2007 14:05:29 GMT -6
Weak conference? Its also the conference with the 3rd best winning percentage in the national tournament in Division 3 football. Its the conference that consistently has 3 or 4 teams ranked in the D3football.com Top 25. And you're comparing it to UW-Whitewater? How many D2 football teams are in Wisconsin? Now how many D2 schools are in Minnesota? If you grow up in WI and want to stay in WI, you either go D1 or D3. If you grow up in MN and want to stay in MN, you can either go D1, D2, or D3. So UW-Whitewater is getting D2-caliber kids that, if they were in MN, they would be going D2 and not D3. If Gagliardi can use that philosophy and consistently win the conference, go to the national tournament, a lot of times make a run in the tournament, and be the winningest coach in all divisions, I'd say its a good philosophy. And what two teams are you referring to in the MIAC that would lose to USA Today Top 25 High School teams? you are right, it does have the thrid highest winning percentage in d 3 football playoffs. however it is all done by one team. so that really does not say much for the confrence overall from top to bottom. St.John's would be a top 4 school in the wiac which would give them 1 to 3 losses in confrence a season. ST Johns played UWRF this season. they won 21-10 against a team which finished 3-7 and is in the first season converting from the wisbone to a oneback, 3wr zone run offense. it was 14-10 until uwrf threw a int for a td. so it was a close game. I was at the game. the st. johns faithful were worried to say the least. they were not expecting the physcial style of football uwrf played on offense and defense. wiac teams do not get d 2 type kids. Winona st., Mankato st, UMD, St. cloud state recruit wisconsin heavy. infact st. cloud state had a kid name matt birkle from wisconsin and he was at one time the d 2 all time rushing champion. when barry alverez came to wisconsin he installed the nebraska style walkon program. 20 kids a year walk on at wisconsin. most are wisconsin kids who would play d 2 ball. also you have d2 programs who should be really playing d3. the wiac adn the northern sun used to play at the metro dome with the wiac usually winning the most games. the norhtern sun is a really very unlevel confrence. you have concorida st paul with 5 or 6 scholarships and winona state which is close to the 26 count. with mankato and st. cloud joining the confrence they will make even more unlevel. the ncc used to be the power d2 confrence when it had all the north and south dakota schools plus northern colorado. I will give you that much. USA top 25 teams would walk over carleton and when mac was in the confrence they would beat them as well. st. johns could pencil in at least 6 confrence victories for many years(carleton, mac, augsburg, hamline, st. olaf, and concorida) . st. thomas used to be there big rival but even they are a also ran now. your confrence is really 1 and a half teams. st. johns is always good and bethel some times suprises st. johns as it does this year. st. olaf is improving with the florida connection(25 of there players this year were from florida)but still the overall depth is not the great. I personally would like to see a wiac vs miac at the metrodome to settle it. |
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Post by coachbw on Nov 16, 2007 14:08:06 GMT -6
A couple of years ago, I was a GA at a WIAC school and we were preparing to play St. John's. I was watching a televised copy of their national championship game from the year before and they popped up a screen showing the "nos." I made a comment about it and our head coach said "Coach, today is 3 days from our game with them and it is raining. Do you really think they cancelled practice?" It made me question a lot of this stuff, and I am of the opinion that they are more conventional than they let on.
That being said, I had to call Coach Gagliardi a day or two after our game with them. He BSed with me for about 25 minutes on the phone before putting me through to the coach that could help me with the issue I had called about. It made quite an impression on a 22 year old coach.
Coach Grant does use some of the St. John's stuff at Eden Prairie, and I have also heard his name come up in several different conversation about who will be the next head coach at St. Johns.
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Post by airman on Nov 16, 2007 14:09:50 GMT -6
Doesn't Mike Grant uses the gagliardi system at Eden Prairie HS, they have been pretty successful. mike grant is a great guy and has done some great things at eden praire. however lets also not he has some big advantages. a school of 3000 stundents. say half are boys. that is 1500 boys to choose from for a varsity with 80 boys on it. it is a numbers game like any thing else. while I am sure EP are going to be in the state finals I am not sure they can beat the athletes st. paul cretin has. I will be there to watchas I am going to visit my sister up in that neck of the woods. great thing about wisconsin is the playoffs are done the week before thanksgiving. I can attend either the IHSA playoffs of the MSHL playoffs. I am going to the metro dome this year and to the blasted holla dazel parade. |
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Post by stud17 on Nov 17, 2007 13:09:42 GMT -6
Weak conference? Its also the conference with the 3rd best winning percentage in the national tournament in Division 3 football. Its the conference that consistently has 3 or 4 teams ranked in the D3football.com Top 25. And you're comparing it to UW-Whitewater? How many D2 football teams are in Wisconsin? Now how many D2 schools are in Minnesota? If you grow up in WI and want to stay in WI, you either go D1 or D3. If you grow up in MN and want to stay in MN, you can either go D1, D2, or D3. So UW-Whitewater is getting D2-caliber kids that, if they were in MN, they would be going D2 and not D3. If Gagliardi can use that philosophy and consistently win the conference, go to the national tournament, a lot of times make a run in the tournament, and be the winningest coach in all divisions, I'd say its a good philosophy. And what two teams are you referring to in the MIAC that would lose to USA Today Top 25 High School teams? you are right, it does have the thrid highest winning percentage in d 3 football playoffs. however it is all done by one team. so that really does not say much for the confrence overall from top to bottom. St.John's would be a top 4 school in the wiac which would give them 1 to 3 losses in confrence a season. ST Johns played UWRF this season. they won 21-10 against a team which finished 3-7 and is in the first season converting from the wisbone to a oneback, 3wr zone run offense. it was 14-10 until uwrf threw a int for a td. so it was a close game. I was at the game. the st. johns faithful were worried to say the least. they were not expecting the physcial style of football uwrf played on offense and defense. wiac teams do not get d 2 type kids. Winona st., Mankato st, UMD, St. cloud state recruit wisconsin heavy. infact st. cloud state had a kid name matt birkle from wisconsin and he was at one time the d 2 all time rushing champion. when barry alverez came to wisconsin he installed the nebraska style walkon program. 20 kids a year walk on at wisconsin. most are wisconsin kids who would play d 2 ball. also you have d2 programs who should be really playing d3. the wiac adn the northern sun used to play at the metro dome with the wiac usually winning the most games. the norhtern sun is a really very unlevel confrence. you have concorida st paul with 5 or 6 scholarships and winona state which is close to the 26 count. with mankato and st. cloud joining the confrence they will make even more unlevel. the ncc used to be the power d2 confrence when it had all the north and south dakota schools plus northern colorado. I will give you that much. USA top 25 teams would walk over carleton and when mac was in the confrence they would beat them as well. st. johns could pencil in at least 6 confrence victories for many years(carleton, mac, augsburg, hamline, st. olaf, and concorida) . st. thomas used to be there big rival but even they are a also ran now. your confrence is really 1 and a half teams. st. johns is always good and bethel some times suprises st. johns as it does this year. st. olaf is improving with the florida connection(25 of there players this year were from florida)but still the overall depth is not the great. I personally would like to see a wiac vs miac at the metrodome to settle it. I watched the film on St. Johns-UWRF and St. Johns didn't look good. But I did watch film on them a couple weeks later against GAC and they looked extremely good (although GAC isn't the best). It may be that St Johns is the reason the MIAC had the 3rd highest winning percentage in the playoffs, but is that a huge surprise? If your a top recruit being recruited by MIAC schools, what school would you most likely choose? You're probably going to choose St Johns where you'll have the best chance of winning. Its tough to recruit when you're not the top-tier team in the MIAC because what are your reasons for the recruit? To lose to St. Johns every year and watch them go to playoffs every year? You may not get as much playing time at St. Johns than another MIAC school, but I'd say for the most part top recruits would rather choose St. Johns. And since Bethel beat them this year and St. Olaf should have beat them (if St. Johns hadn't gotten extremely lucky), I don't think you can say the MIAC is a 1 school conference. I really can't comment on D2 because I'm not as familiar with it as I am with D3 and the MIAC. |
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Post by stud17 on Nov 17, 2007 14:45:08 GMT -6
For those who care, D3 winners Saturday:
UW-Whitewater
St. Johns
Bethel
Mount Union
Central
St. John Fisher
Wesley
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Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 18, 2007 22:59:57 GMT -6
If you want to go debate the merits of the MIAC vs the WIAC, then head over to d3football.com. They would love to hash it out with you. I am so tired of trying to have this debate about how the MIAC is garbage and that the WIAC is such a great conference. There is good football played in both leagues and why don't we leave it at that.
Top to bottom the WIAC is probably a stronger overall league. I don't think that there is anyone who follows d3 football that will really debate that. The MIAC is not the sisters of the blind though. Top 4 teams in the league could hang with anyone. What I am tired of is everyone associated with the WIAC having this inferiority complex. I don't understand where the need to trash SJU and the MIAC comes from.
There is a healthy level of respect for the WIAC within the MIAC and around the country. I have never heard anyone say that the WIAC is not a good league. They have a lot of good teams and a lot of good programs. You know what? So does the MIAC. So does the IIAC. So does the NWC. So does the OAC.
Quite frankly, I think this whole argument is a little silly. I would like to think that I have my finger on the pulse of football in the upper midwest and am well aware of all the things that you mentioned. Yes, you are right, the NSIC is not that good of a league. The top half of the WIAC and MIAC could handle almost everyone with no problem. Yes, I am aware that Matt Birkel was a fantastic back at SCSU and that he was from Wisconsin. Maybe everyone else does on the board does not know these things and most likely they don't care. So tell me what is it that you are trying to prove? That the WIAC is the best league in D3 top to bottom? If that is the case, then I hereby annoint the WIAC the best league top to bottom in D3 football. Case closed. Any questions?
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